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"Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear". Your complaint says much more about you than it says about Bro. Jim. As for posting this photo, well, what can be said? Stay classy, accn-australia! (USA)
1 Timothy 5 vrs 19, 20:
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Good point! That's why people come here to read, to rebuke the elders right? (USA)
Unstable. Where's the foundation? This is "faith", not a career.
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be "UNTO THEE" as an heathen man and a publican. Matt. 18:15,16,17
Then ONLY "after" this you may, "rebuke before all". (AUS)
Why did you take off Michael Stanjo's picture? (AUS)
OUR COMMENT: We did not. That article is now on the next page. We break pages from time to time, as the front page gets too long. Everything that's ever been written on this website is still here and will stay here.
OK... and is "tell it unto the church" in Matt. 18 just about elder brothers too? And, by the way, we'd really like to know where your special lists of "sins that need to be told to the church" and "sins that don't need to be told to the church" are? (USA)
OUR COMMENT: In this case Jim Igic offended a man in front of the whole church, so what is that you want "to be told to the church"?
When the creator of this website stands before the Lord on Judgement Day, The Lord will not be asking about what Jim, Paul, etc. have done. The Heavenly Father will ask what YOU have or have not done. How do you think He will look upon this website and the many false, gossipy comments? This is the kind of thing the world does, not Children of the Living God. Do you have a family? How would you like to see a family photo of yours posted online for all to see, accompanied by nasty comments? Even though you've done that to others, I would not wish that upon you. Whatever any elder does, right or wrong, he will be fairly judged by The Lord in due course. Did you ask permission of the various people you have besmirched to post their pictures? You are not kind or nice. You make Australia ACC look so bad. I really feel for the decent, innocent Believers over there. (USA)
To comment No.6: Yes, you have a valid point, gossip is not good, BUT, when elders do injustice and persecute and mock the brethren who are defending justice, faith, & truth, what is supposed to be done? Do you say thank you to such elders? Would you praise them who care more about having the title "elder" than peoples souls? It is crystal clear that certain elders care more about "maintaining & preserving power" than the wellbeing of souls. Tell me, what are we supposed to do with false prophets today? (AUS)
Amen comment 6! This is really bad what you are doing, posting all this for the world to see. Everyone will be accountable for their own actions. People need to start being more concerned where they stand with God and not where others stand, as in the last days "will He find faith"?! We all know that it's only going to get worse and so to continue posting and name shaming the evil doers in our church's is just unnecessary grief. Leave that to God on Judgment day. (AUS)
Reply to comment number 6. You said, "You make Australia ACC look so bad. I really feel for the decent, innocent Believers over there". Are you calling the elder who took a brother to the supreme court (before non-believers) here in Australia "decent and innocent"?? You stated, "Whatever any elder does, right or wrong, he will be fairly judged by The Lord in due course." So? In the meantime should we agree/partake with the sins the elders do? If not, and we testify the truth against the injustice, and then the elders oppress us and harass us with ill-treatment. What would you do if some elders persecute you because you support justice? (AUS)
To Comments 7 and 9: Do you think you are the only Christians to be persecuted? If you want to know what to do when you are oppressed, harassed, and ill-treated all you have to do is read God's word and you will find the answer. Do not repay evil with evil, but overcome evil with good. Bless those who persecute you. Love your enemies. These are just a few verses that come to mind. How did Jesus and the Apostles respond when persecuted? Nobody should have to tell you what to do when being persecuted because the Bible is clear in its instruction on the matter and this website is shameful. (USA)
I wrote comment 6. To comment 7, in reference to: "Tell me, what are we supposed to do with false prophets today?" I would humbly encourage you to read 1 Peter 4:12 - 19. Rejoice that you may suffer for the Lord. "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."
To comment 9: "The decent, innocent Believer" I am talking about is the brother and sister sitting in the bench, trying, with the Lord's help, to be faithful. They will not fight and take sides. They will suffer patiently, quietly, and as Mary did, ponder these things in their heart. Perhaps they very, very strongly disagree with certain things, but they are satisfied to let the Lord fight the battle.
As to: "What would you do if some elders persecute you because you support justice?" Sadly, I have been and continue to be in exactly that place. I get down on my knees and pray very, very fervently that I will not be deceived by Satan, and that no matter what happens, I will keep my faith until my dying breath.
When I have been treated so terribly, lied about, falsely accused so that I can hardly breath or focus on anything but the hurt, I pray with all my heart to the Lord not to make me bitter. I go with love to that brother or sister that has hurt me and show them so, so much MORE love than ever before. You see, it's not about their soul as much as it is about mine. I want to live in such a way that should I die at any moment, I can go in complete peace. There is nothing on earth that can compare with having that peace in your heart.
What about Joseph? What about Job? Many others could be listed. How encouraging to read and re-read the account of their lives. How humbling. And the ultimate example: The Lord Jesus Christ. HE was perfect. What was done to him? "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."
Please, please consider, I beg you, your own soul. Don't you want to get to heaven? Let's all try, with all our being, to get there. It will be worth it. We cannot, however, get there if we behave as unbelievers. It won't work. The Lord "will not know us." Keep your eye on the prize. Don't soil your baptism garment.
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19.
I feel safe knowing the Lord is in control of everything. I need to faithfully, humbly follow Him. (USA)
OUR COMMENT: Thank you, you are a good soul. Now, let's imagine, just for a moment, that you are a Catholic. You have just found out that your child had been sexually molested by a priest. The priest is known as a repetitive offender. What would you do? Would you just humbly pray and suffer quietly? Or you would call the police, media, tried to talk to other priests? Would you not try to raise your voice in order to prevent new cases? More abuse? Would you not feel responsible to do something? True, God will judge us all one day, for both what we have done and what we have not. But what to do in the meantime? To allow the abusers to destroy the Nazarene church completely, so there is nothing left at the end for us and our children? No way! It is clearly stated on this website that this website will not be removed as long as Paul Pentsa and Janko Tomek are in charge in Australia. And that's it. So dear readers, how about not wasting our time any more with the same question all along - should we, or should we not have a website? That decision has been made a year ago. It is not going to change.COMMENT 12:
Thank you to comment 11. You have many valid and true points, with scriptural backing. OK, so we continue to humbly suffer persecution that that some elders are inflicting, we continue to love them and pray for them, we will carry the cross, and they continue to persecute. This is not what elders are for. They should be helping believers, they should be an example. Unless they are false apostles. Conclusion: I agree to carry the cross. But to do so requires meekness. And those elders deserve pity. Yet, (I will add one more thing) we will nevertheless continue to support justice, and speak the truth and follow the Holy Scriptures. We will not agree with sin, even sins committed by elders and will speak out against sin. The mouth of anyone who is alive cannot be closed. (AUS)
COMMENT 11 please don't be so naive: Do you have any children of your own? How to explain to the young children who don't understand about Christian life as yet, when they see how their parents are badly treated by leaders in our accn churches who think "they have all the power". How many where turned away by those problems in the past not to attend the accn church. I know couple instances when children said to their parents. "If I were you I would't go to the church anymore". How sad. Instead to bring more people to GOD, they have been pushed away. I do agree we should pray to GOD for faith and strength to endure from worldly peoples and not from accn leaders. AND ABOVE ALL THINGS HAVE FERVENT LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER, FOR "LOVE WILL COVER A MULTITUDE OF SIN" 1 Peter 4:8 (AUS)
Comment 10 asked "How did Jesus and respond when persecuted?" Comment 10 wrote "all you have to do is read God's word and you will find the answer" So here we go... lets see how Jesus responded to being "oppressed, harassed, and ill-treated".
1. **Give Warning** Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Jesus is not talking about bread but about people like some ACCN elders/ministers.
2. **Call out these Pharisees/Sadducees also known as some ACCN elders/ministers** Matthew Chapter 23
Jesus called out these people out in public with detailed descriptions and calling them hypocrites.
3. **Start overthrowing tables** Matthew 21:12
Jesus overthrew the tables. Is there any elders/ministers that need their tables overthrown because they stole money from the church?
4. **Escape out of their hand** John Chapter 7 verse 29
Sometimes you have to escape. Jim Igic has displayed his anger in public multiple times and sometimes you just have to run and never look back.
Hey Comment 10 that's how Jesus responded. "This website is shameful" You know what is shameful? People that partake in these elders sins and support them. People may respond with the fact that the elders/ministers are not like the Pharisees and the Sadducees, look at the faces on this website carefully then read Matthew 23 and then repeat. Ask yourself, do I see any similarities?
Hey comment 6 & 11 do the elders persecute you? Or is it that you yourself have an elder position? (USA)
I will keep it simple and try, with God's help, to refine my point so that I am not misunderstood. No, I do not have an elder position. No, I do not agree with many things Bro. Jim, Bro. Paul, etc. have done. In fact, I have been greatly saddened, disturbed, and very troubled by the direction of the elder body in the ACCN. I understand there are certain elders who are political and NOT shepherds, which is what they are SUPPOSED to be. They are changing. They are becoming more dictatorial. It is a sad fact. I am not na´ve, as mentioned above.
My point is this: In order to have an ounce of credibility when criticizing or judging an elder's actions (or others' for that matter), we, ourselves, need to behave as Believers. If we do not conduct ourselves as Believers or live as a Believer should or have wholesome words coming out of our mouths, we are hypocrites. We criticize them for doing wrong things when we, ourselves, are behaving just as badly in other areas of our lives. It is all about the mote and the beam.
When we are faithful Believers and do behave as the Lord would have us behave, THEN we can see clearly and HEAR clearly what the Holy Spirit directs us to do. You see, the Lord is in control of everything. For some reason He is allowing Bro. Paul, Bro. Jim, etc. to remain in their current positions. Why? I don't pretend to know. One thing I am convinced of (because of the evidence I see around me) is that these are the end times. Things are not as they were.
The infighting, criticizing each other's nationalities, "boring preaching", whatever, has got to stop. And why would all this be shared in such a public setting for all the world to see? People who have NO connection to the church can read intimate details about our church. That is not right. If Believers want to discuss, share concerns about leadership, that is not inappropriate. Find a private way to do that. And when you go about discussing it and sharing concerns, be Christlike. (USA)
OUR COMMENT: "And why would all this be shared in such a public setting for all the world to see?", you wrote. OK, Colorado, you are not giving up. Here are some technical details for you. Firstly, our tracking software is quite sophisticated and gives us a plethora of information about our visitors. Of course it cannot give us names. Details are mostly related to visitor's ISP provider and technical characteristics of the device used to access the website. It is all pretty state of the art technology embedded today in most big websites. Now, our statistics tell us that almost all regular visitors are somehow related to ACCN or ACCA. Those who are not simply don't care. They are not interested in what we are discussing here. All these names and issues mean little to them. How do we know this? Well, whenever we spot a visitor from China, Finland, Tobago or any such place, we notice that they do not stay longer than 30 seconds, which tells us they are not interested and quickly browse off somewhere else. So, yes, although our website is public and can be seen from any point in the world, in reality it only attracts a very specific group of Internet users.
On the other hand, there is Google. Type in any of the names mentioned here in the Google search bar, and voila, what do you get? You get this website. Try: Paul Pentsa, Janko Tomek, Jim Igic, Matea Lincu, etc. In most cases our website will be listed among first 3 results. Now click on Google Images. You will see their photos that we posted. And that is good. Their names and faces are now permanently linked to our website. These church abusers, these cruel, egoistic and stubborn men, these false Christians, will now think twice before offending someone. When people from their work, for example, tell them "Hey, I saw your picture on that church website", then, dear Colorado, only then they will start feeling the consequences of their abuse and what they have done to others. Unfortunately that is the only language they understand.
For comment 15: You are trying hard, I give you credit for that. Sure, many things should not be in the public eye, but, for an example, if a preacher is a poor preacher, that is open for all (even non-believers to see), such a person should understand his weakness and step down, or other brothers should guide him towards stepping down. I do not blame him for being poor at preaching, (we cannot be good at everything), but if it is so clear why doesn't he step down himself. An elder taking a brother to court, is that not in full view of the whole public? Now that's embarrassing!! Doesn't that elder know that? It is not sensible for a brother to take a brother to court. And I suppose that that elder doesn't think himself to be blind.
Sure! We "must" needs be Christlike. A very interesting comment you made saying, "The Lord is in control", but the Lord is obviously not in control of the brothers who take brothers to court, nor of the elders who are greedy of power. I think you should say: "The Lord is in control of only those brothers and sisters who follow Christs leading". The Lord does not control people doing evil one to another, yes he tolerates it (but Lord does not permit it, nor control it). The Lord is patient and is hoping that they will repent, and is giving them time to repent. But for how long?
Do permit me to mention (an unrelated topic) regarding certain quotes, that are coming in use, (but NOT very Biblical), and not just this one, "the Lord is in control", but also, "God's plan". Where in the Bible do you find the phrase, "God's plan"? God does NOT "plan" to save one person and cast the other person into hell. From other worldly religions these words have crept in. Where in the Bible does it say that God has a plan? (AUS)
I will leave you with a parting comment. I think (at least I hope) you misunderstood my comment that "The Lord is in control of everything." Even though the Lord does not condone the bad actions of people, he is certainly in control of allowing these events to take place. He is certainly aware of all that goes on in this world. Each and every breath we take and everything we do is only because He permits it. We would all do well to remember that. I will continue to pray for our entire church, and I hope that perhaps one day, if not now, you will realize that vengeance really does belong to the Lord. (USA)
OUR COMMENT: No one is talking about vengeance, Colorado. You need to read this website more carefully. Our goal is to confront the abusers and stop them from hurting more people. It is a noble cause.COMMENT 18:
For comment 17. My friend, please try to understand. I do admit that you have some very valid points, but, No, my friend, the Lord does NOT permit nor "allow", hatred, wars, strife, nor for a brother to take a brother to court. These things come from Satan. The Lord is patient and is tolerating this wickedness, but for how long? (AUS)
OUR COMMENT: Paul Pentsa is led by his hatred. He is not able to control his hatred, his hatred controls him. And don't worry, he won't be around for very long - hatred is sickness and it will eventually kill him.COMMENT 19:
"Our Comment" - You are spot on, hatred is a sickness and madness. Paul Pentsa took to court the man who used to be his best friend. What to say - what a swine. Laza's daughter told him the right thing. (AUS)
- TOPIC CLOSED, THANK YOU -
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