Spiritual and Mental Abuse in Apostolic Christian Church Nazarene in Australia
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ACCN Forum | two wives is ok

adultery is ok
Australia
16 Sep 2018 23:25

4505 views
Its heard Sandor Hevesi is residing in Brisbane once again with his second wife, and is first wife is still alive.

Has Sandor with his second wife attended Greenbank?

Have they attended Marsden?

Have they stayed in their fellowship as free members?

still more
Australia
17 Sep 2018 10:03

4454 views
Well, u can not physicaly throw nobody out from the church.

We have a person under discipline in Mt.Cottrell chirch that stays in the members.


means what
Australia
17 Sep 2018 10:50

4441 views
you cant, but the Bible does.

the bible cannot change for ANYONE, even those that committ adultery.

did I write this verse?

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

(does this mean have fellowship?)

2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

(does this mean to be part or among them?)


To: still more
Australia
17 Sep 2018 11:19

4434 views
Yes of course you cannot physically remove anybody,that would be an offense and brought up to the police.
Jano, John and George Stefanides are not the only ones in Mt Cottrell that have taken possession of church funds. There are more that lie around to take things that don't belong to them. And who is the Elder for all these people?...yes Paul Pentsa, he is liable for all this corruption too.


Elder in Hungary?
USA
17 Sep 2018 11:44

4423 views
Does anyone know which Elder in Hungary married this couple?

bible only
Australia
17 Sep 2018 12:39

4404 views
it not only matters which elder married them, the problem also, is, that ALL Hungarian Elders agree and support this unbiblical teaching that adultery is allowed.

Mark 10:
7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Matthew 5:32
......and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

who is it
Australia
17 Sep 2018 12:40

4403 views
to:
still more

who at mount cottrell is the person in question here?

To: still more
USA
17 Sep 2018 12:57

4398 views
Please do not mention names here! Harming this person by shaming them further is not kind.

still more
Australia
17 Sep 2018 13:11

4385 views
to:
who is it

It's for me to know,and for u to find out!

absolute filth
Australia
17 Sep 2018 13:26

4376 views
thats cool.

as long as the church knows that adultery is a sin unto death, and that every elder, church and member that allows sin unto death to be in the fellowship, they, each and every member, will give an account for this.

as long as they are free to give an account on the last day before God, and they know about it, and take this accountability upon themselves, thats fine.

but,
let it be known that it is a sin unto death, and absolute filth who ever accepts this false teaching as biblical fine.

Leviticus 20:10
“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

1 John 5:17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

this will not change for the hungarian elders nor for mount cottreel......

To: still more
USA
17 Sep 2018 13:30

4376 views
I'm sorry I thought the topic was about people who have fallen into sin by committing adulty or fornication. But this topic is about stealing funds.

It would be good to expose this because a person who steals for a living will need to steal again. So not mentioning it would be wrong.

I also heard that a leader from Mt Cottrell took around 40K of the church's money for him and his family to travel all around the world. Not sure if that is true. Can anyone confirm this?

check topic
Australia
17 Sep 2018 13:55

4364 views
the topic here is about "two wives"

To: still more
USA
17 Sep 2018 14:19

4351 views
I think I understand now. You are you saying that Jano Tomak, George Stefanides, and John Stefanides have stolen money from the church? Do they still have access to the church's bank accounts? Have they paid the church back?
As far as, 'There are more that lie around to take things that don't belong to them.' Not sure what that means? Are they stealing from the church or people outside of church through business dealings?

check
Australia
17 Sep 2018 14:30

4344 views
the "topic" here is about having "2" wives

Ok
USA
17 Sep 2018 14:37

4339 views
If the elders in Hungary say its ok then it must be ok since European elders said it....

meaning
Australia
17 Sep 2018 15:35

4326 views
which bible verse allows the hungarian elders to change the Lord's teaching on adultery?

Ok
USA
17 Sep 2018 22:51

4283 views
I was being sarcastic because everyone in the Nazarene church seems to think if Europe does it its ok. But they dont see that the European elders are full of wrongdoing just like the Americans.

Only one elder
Australia
19 Sep 2018 22:35

4142 views
Paul Pentsa did not allow this man to remarry, but that hungarian elder named Ferenc Szabados in ersekcsanad married them despite the fact that there's no evidence of his first wife cheated on him.

what does bible say
Australia
20 Sep 2018 0:05

4127 views
did paul penstsa disallow the marriage?

even if someone has evidence of the other spouse cheating, the bible does not allow remarry.

this is called adultery.

who is this guy
Australia
20 Sep 2018 0:07

4125 views
who is this ference szabados?

can we get a photo of him?

who does he think he is, God that can change the ordinance of holy living?

Busy bodies
Australia
20 Sep 2018 0:40

4119 views
Your minds are so consumed with others that you can't see yourselves! Always judging others. Let God be the judge, that's His job. Your job is to live an example of the Christian faith. Stop being busy bodies.

Confused!
USA
20 Sep 2018 6:32

4098 views
It is not about judging. It's about hypocrisy! If the faith has changed by the ACCN leaders, the members should know about it. You cannot ask your members to make a promise and then tell them they can break it after many years have passed. And if the rules have changed at least have the common decency to inform all the remaining members!


only option
Australia
20 Sep 2018 10:23

4062 views
the biblical rules cannot change and will not change about adultery, nor any other biblical fundamental principle.

Luke 16:18
“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Exodus 20:14
“You shall not commit adultery.

1 Cor.6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

harming people
Australia
24 Sep 2018 0:29

3934 views
to:
who is it

It's for me to know,and for u to find out!

good answer....

its for you to not know, and for me not to find out....

harming people by speaking truth?
or pulling them out of the fire because they need to know?

another photo
Australia
26 Sep 2018 17:45

3810 views
can we now get a photo of:

ference szabados from erksecrand.

Moderator
Australia
27 Sep 2018 13:44

3752 views
If anyone has a photo of Mr Szabados please send it to us.

accnaustralia@gmail.com

defiled the church
Australia
5 Oct 2018 10:50

3595 views
yes, its been confirmed today that Sandor and his second wife were in the fellowship at Marsden.
so
Marsden is accepting a sin unto death in the fellowship.
the Hungarian elders have defiled Marsden by allowing adultery to creep in via Sandor and his 2nd wife, where Sandor's 1st wife is still alive.

Luke 16:18 states clearly:
"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery".

1 Corinthians 7:27 states clearly:
"Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife".

Romans 7:3 states clearly:
"So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries".

Is this unclear to anyone?


Reality!!!!
USA
5 Oct 2018 17:33

3554 views
The reality is mercy will be given to the Israelites, God’s chosen people. The door is closing for the Gentiles. That is a fact. So it is no wonder that the elders make decisions which contradict the word of God and apply whatever rules they choose that is more in alignment with their own goals.

I bet these elders could never run a large organization by managing it the way they have been doing in their ACCN leadership roles. They would never make and I elive they would undoubtedly be sued.

Reality!!!!
USA
5 Oct 2018 17:51

3550 views
David Nicholson's employee of a prior company he was managing sued him for being racist. The ACCN elders did not investigate him and allowed him to continue to work as an elder and further discriminate and target families.

I guess if you dislike a man, and you are an Elder you have the right to abuse his children, grandchildren and use his funds against him. But that is the ACCN way! A bunch of hypocrites.

I wonder if posting on this website is a waste of time because it seems like nothing is registering in the ACCN elders minds to think that there is a problem here. And the problem is with their leadership.



Response
USA
5 Oct 2018 23:15

3522 views
To the above comment....we can smear them all day long for their evil works yet they dont care one biy because they know we cant so a thing about it. You think theyre concerned for the faith? Please! Theyre concerned for themselves and their positions. Everybody in the ACC knows this. Its being mentioned more and more how they dont care about us. The whole church country wide knows this is all a big scam. Their elder meetings are the biggest joke in the world.

good point
Australia
6 Oct 2018 0:17

3512 views
to: Reality

re.
I wonder if posting on this website is a waste of time because it seems like nothing is registering in the ACCN elders minds to think that there is a problem here. And the problem is with their leadership.

good point.
anther tactic can be used, if this way has been attempted is not working or its not getting anyone anywhere.

surely there can be more then one way it attempting to do good, remove elders, stand up for justice....yeah?


To: Response
USA
25 Oct 2018 2:36

3189 views
You're absolutely right!!! The elders love to travel with the churches money and be entertained by Christians. Think about, they fly for free, eat well and get respected. Meanwhile, they do nothing to help the struggle members with legitimate issues at their meetings and are more concerned about their meeting minute notes.

response
Australia
25 Oct 2018 14:18

3136 views
re.
...........are more concerned about their meeting minute notes.

do they still pass the minutes meeting notes to the government when requested?

Hungarian Elders
USA
30 Oct 2018 11:05

3017 views
Why would anyone criticize an Elder from Hungary? They are blest with a double portion of the Holy Spirit. You are just a simple minded member that needs to learn to submit to our Elder who are appointed and anointed by God. They are given the responsibility to interpret the Bible for our Churches, not you!

To: Above
USA
30 Oct 2018 12:16

2991 views
I didn't know that as servants of God we are not allowed to interpret the Bible. Are we not given the Holy Spirit to guide us or do we need the Elders to guide us each day?

'Simple minded member' - who made you a judge? The Elders are men, and they do fail. They are not incapable of making mistakes. We are supposed to die daily.

I speak for my self when I say that an elder is not leading me each day. And the reason I turned to God was not due to an elder, it was reading the Bible and being hungry to serve God.

in sin
Australia
30 Oct 2018 13:25

2971 views
to:

re. Why would anyone criticize an Elder from Hungary?

because he has sinned in God's eyes to allow adultery.

adultery is a sin, if you didnt know.

anyone allowing sin, is in sin, and not free from that sin.

to obey or not
Australia
30 Oct 2018 13:45

2965 views
to:

re. needs to learn to submit to our Elder who are appointed and anointed by God.

yes, absolutely true......"BUT" if and "ONLY" if its according to God's word, will, in truth, holiness and godliness.

if not, then nobody should EVER listen or obey any elder.

To: Hungarian elders
USA
31 Oct 2018 0:26

2923 views
This goes for all church elders world wide, eldership position is not a license to sin and to do evil to any member and believing they are good before God, elder is a servent that's it.
Prophet Moses did not give God the honor and glory therefore Moses did not enter the promise land.

chapter and verse
Australia
31 Oct 2018 9:56

2867 views
to : hungarian elders person's comment.....

re.
They are given the responsibility to interpret the Bible for our Churches, not you!

please supply chapter and verse that the bibles teaches this?

thanks

Trust in who?
Australia
31 Oct 2018 10:57

2848 views
What happens if people are listening and obeying the elders interpretation but that interpretation starts to sound all wrong and not of God? This is a fair concern wouldn't you say?


please respond
Australia
31 Oct 2018 21:20

2787 views
does anyone know where does it state that the elder has authority from God to interpret the bible?

please state chapter and verse...

Location???
Australia
7 Nov 2018 15:08

2635 views
Nowhere to be found!
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers: and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
2 Timothy Chapter 4 Verses 3-4.

yes
Australia
7 Nov 2018 18:03

2607 views
exactly.

very interesting verse and so true!!

info
USA
5 Jan 2019 7:14

2078 views
Matthew 5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Sandor's first wife committed sexual immorality and she divorced him. As far as I know that is the European elders' view on this verse: If one commit sexual immorality in a christian marriage and divorces from his/her spouse the "innocent" party is free to remarry. That is why the Hungarian elders let him remarry.

mis interpretation
Australia
5 Jan 2019 15:31

2047 views
the hungarian elders mis interpret the bibles teaching on adultery.

this does not allow adultery by anyone.

Luke 16:18
Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

does NOT contradict Matthew 5:32

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

except means: in this case only (meaning that the innocent spouse "IN THE CASE OF ADULTERY", can this divorce the guilty spouse. "NOT FOR ANY OTHER CASE"

this is CLEAR that the "ONLY" reason a innocent spouse can "DIVORCE" their spouse, is "IF" and "ONLY IF" their spouse has committed adultery.

"NO WHERE" does it state that the innocent spouse can "RE-MARRY".
if anyone can locate bible chapter and bible verse that allows "RE-MARRIAGE", please quote it.

clear verses
Australia
5 Jan 2019 15:37

2046 views
1 Corinthians 7:27 states clearly:

"Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife".

Romans 7:3 states clearly:

"So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries".

what part of Romans 7:3 which states..........

.....she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries....

Which part does it ONLY allow re-marriage?

The first part of Romans 7:3 states it clearly........
So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man.......

"THESE TWO BIBLE VERSES ARE CLEAR, THAT RE-MARRIAGE IS NOT ALLOWED" (while the other spouse is alive)

"EVEN IN A CASE OF ADULTERY"

It cannot be any clearer in these 2 verses.

please explain
Australia
5 Jan 2019 17:21

2040 views
the term is refered to both sides not only to the woman or not only to the man.
so, if she divorced him, that doesnt allow him to remarry.
if he divorced her, that doesnt allow her to remarry.
if he committs adultery, that doesnt allow her to commit adultery.
if she committs adultery, that doesnt allow him to commit adultery.
God does not justify one to commit sin, because the other has committed sin.
God allows for divorce if adultey is committed, but God does not allow re-marriage.
the verse "what God has put together, let no man put asunder", does not allow the hungarian elders to put asunder or to go further into sin by allowing to remarry, because the devil has put asunder.

what is unclear
Australia
5 Jan 2019 17:36

2035 views
1 Corinthians 7:

10. To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.

11. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

......but if she does, she must remain UNMARRIED...

does "remain unmarried" allow "remarriage"?

what part is unclear here??????????????????

re-marriage?
Australia
5 Jan 2019 22:43

2019 views
re.
1 Corinthians 7:27
"Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife".

if you are freed, or choose to be freed, does this verse allow you to look for another spouse to re-marry?



Fact
Australia
7 Jan 2019 7:46

1950 views
To Info USA, make sure you get your fact correct. Here in Australia we heard the story that his wife would not confess either yes she did commit adultery or no she did not, and because she would not confess either, the elders took it upon themselves to free the husband to remarry. You can make your own judgement about that. But let's make sure if you are stating a "fact" that someone committed an act of sin, that the person actually did do it. We can't say she did it if she did not confess it and there is no proof or witnesses. In Hungary,the elders are just assuming she did. Is that good enough? You can make your own judgement.

confirmed
Australia
7 Jan 2019 9:41

1939 views
One of the Elders in Australia ask her directly if she commited adultery,and the answer was NO.

to:fact
Australia
7 Jan 2019 16:35

1909 views
to :fact

this cannot over ride the bibles teaching on adultery.

adultery or no adultery by a spouse doesnt allow the other spouse to committ sin or adultery.



Fact or Fiction
USA
7 Jan 2019 23:33

1883 views
No ACC elder would free a Brother to remarry if his wife said that she did not commit adultery! I also believe that the Hungarian interpretation is correct. If a Brother or sister in faith is married and their spouse leaves them and remarries they are also free to remarry. As we promise... till death do we part and that spouse is now spiritually dead and no longer bound to the marriage.

to: Fact or Fiction

8 Jan 2019 9:32

1834 views
You are "completely" incorrect in your interpretation. Marriage is a union between a man and a women, which begins on earth and ends on earth. In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.  And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?  For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. Mark 12:23-25 Marriage is a physical (bodily union) NOT a spiritual union. A spiritual union is our life with the Lord and with the Church.  That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:3. The word of God is very plain and clear, the Word of God says:  Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery ... ...  And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. Mark 10:11-12 It works both ways, whether the man leaves his wife and remarries, he is committing adultery, and if the woman leave her husband and remarries she is committing adultery. These are the words of Jesus Christ, (and cannot possible be incorrect in any way) Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Luke 16:18 The subject here is the bodily (physical) marriage between a man and a women. One does not become "spiritually" married to his wife. Marriage is a bodily union. THEREFORE whosoever remarries while their first spouse is still alive (alive in the bodily sense) IS COMMITTING ADULTERY. The Hungarian interpretation is "incorrect" because it is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ. And another point: "till death do us part" is referring to the bodily (natural/physical) death.  Here is more scriptural evidence for you. Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Matthew 19:6 FLESH = BODILY  And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. Mark 10:8 These are God's words. Or, my friend, do you know better than God?

look into it
Australia
8 Jan 2019 11:39

1824 views
re.
....till death do we part and that spouse is now spiritually dead and no longer bound to the marriage.

apostle paul was refering to the carnal death, not spiritually death.



perfectly correct
Australia
8 Jan 2019 11:50

1822 views
TO:

to: Fact or Fiction

you are exactly 100% correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is biblically explained very clearly.

the hungarian elders and american elders interpretation is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

one flesh
Australia
8 Jan 2019 11:52

1821 views
marriage is 2 become "ONE" flesh.

clearly that it is not spiritually bound, but bound by the flesh.

this is not hard to understand.

Spiritual Marriage?
USA
9 Jan 2019 2:30

1767 views
If a couple in the ACC Church gets legally married but are not yet married in the Church. They are not permitted to be joined in flesh (results in excommunication). If they are married in the Church prior to getting legally married (as in my case)they are free to be joined in the flesh. Which is Biblical the Spiritual marriage or the Legal marriage?

@spiritual marriage
USA
9 Jan 2019 2:45

1765 views
That's where they all start explaining their ways in all sorts of twisted beliefs.

Some will say legal means nothing as long as you're married in the acc church. You're cool to bed your partner. Yet, most likely the same person will be preaching about the need for obedience to the laws of the land.
While it's not required to get married legally in this day and age -in most countries- to live together....what will the acc people say when this couple has kids and now the kids are legally born out of wedlock? What will you say to the authorities? "ummm yeah we're married in the acc so our kid is not born out of wedlock..."?

I think the answer is: you need to be legally married too...

Remarriage
USA
9 Jan 2019 3:21

1763 views
It often takes months for the legal paperwork to be completed...especially if one marries outside of the their own Country. If one of the spouses died during this time/phase are they allowed to remarry in the Church? I'll leave that one to our imbedded Bible Scholars!

To remarriage
Australia
9 Jan 2019 9:28

1739 views
Rom.7;2&3
For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives.But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

So than if,while her husband lives,she marries another man,she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies,she is free from that law,so that she is no adulteress thoughshe has married another man.


bound
Australia
9 Jan 2019 10:08

1733 views
spiritually bound is your covenant through God to your spouse (through God conducting it through His Church)

Eph. 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

1 Cor.7:39
.......only in the Lord.
Marry in the Lord alone, is permitted by the Lord.
The Lord is Head of the Church.
The covenant in the Church, is what makes them spiritually bound.

Bound?

9 Jan 2019 23:45

1692 views
The reference to Rom 7 is exactly what the Hungarian Elders quote!
Although... they read that verse in a Spiritual way not fleshly.

they can repent

10 Jan 2019 0:29

1688 views
re.
comment in this forum : ( 8 Jan 2019 9:32)

this comment is very clear on whether its a fleshly or spiritual bond as Jesus gave the example in Mark 12:23-25.

the hungarian elders will be accountable for their error unless they repent and change.

Hungarian or not
USA
10 Jan 2019 0:58

1685 views
May we kindly judge the Hungarian Elders in the Spirit of Matthew 5:7 Blessed are those who are merciful to others; God will be merciful to them!

We all know that there has never been a consensus in the ACCN Church concerning Divorce and Remarriage (regardless of how many Bible versus -8 Jan 2019 9:32 likes to quote). May God be merciful to each of us on that judgment day!

fundamental?
Australia
10 Jan 2019 15:04

1653 views
God is merciful and will be merciful.

But, confess your faults to be healed is the only option to be released from each ones error of sin, before the judgement day.

man cannot be more merciful then God.
nor
can man approve sin as a method of being merciful.

adultery is not a small thing to differ peoples views.

this is a fundamental thing that cannot be altered in any way.

more from, Pilgrim
Australia
13 Jan 2019 13:10

1554 views
I wrote- to: Fact or Fiction on 08 JAN 2019 09:32
For the Hungarian elders to receive forgiveness, they need to reverse their decision, and need to correct (rectify) their sin. Eg: for a thief to receive forgiveness he/she must give back (restore) what they stole. THEN they can be forgiven. Should a thief expect to be forgiven without amending his/her sin? We all need mercy. But mercy is obtained when we CORRECT our sins and STOP breaking God's commandments. My friends, "Sin will NOT enter heaven".

spot on
Australia
13 Jan 2019 18:16

1533 views
exactly right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

confess the sin
Australia
13 Jan 2019 22:55

1518 views
confess means:

1. to acknowledge: a fault, crime, misdeed, sin..etc
2.to admit as true: realise that it was wrong or sinful
3.to declare or acknowledge (one's sins), in order to obtain resolution

James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.....

Sorry
Australia
14 Jan 2019 11:47

1478 views
There is no remission for "three unforgivable" sins , -after BAPTISM !!!!! It is clear from the bible !!!!
After baptism the three -unforgivable sins- cannot be rectified ...

Sorry ...!

Only God can be merciful - or NOT ...!

*Please do not put your hand into God's work ... !

*Confessions in these drama are too late ...!

The dead sinners should be cleared off from the shelves even if they were Elders or Participants ... or - Both in the actions !

why
Australia
14 Jan 2019 13:40

1468 views
why did Marsden Church then accept members that have commited sin unto death in their Fellowship?

Dear Pilgrim
USA
14 Jan 2019 23:31

1425 views
I am glad for your strong convictions but you might be wrong!

As was written earlier there has never been an agreement in the ACCN concerning remarriage in the Lord. Elders have gone back and forth on this issues for over 100 years. Please be careful in you condemnation of other true believers.

Concerning mercy you are wrong again! God grants us mercy everyday whether we deserve it or not. He grants mercy and compassion to even the friends who attend with us each Sunday. Mercy is not given based on repentance or some other actions!

May God be merciful to each of us in these confusing times!

sins unto death
Australia
14 Jan 2019 23:41

1421 views
there are sins unto death, whether one chooses to believe it, accept it or not.

that will not change fact, that sins unto death are sins that are delivered for the destruction of the flesh, so there is some chance AT the day of the Lord.

man, church nor elder/s cannot reinstate such memebrs that have committed sins unto death.

their spirit CAN be saved at the last day, but that is God to decide.

1 Corinthians 5:5 states:
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Pilgrim
Australia
15 Jan 2019 2:53

1405 views
How can a person receive mercy without restitution and repentance? How can a person expect to obtain mercy, if he/she has not repented? Surely, the Word of God must needs be our final say!! (Not man, not even Elders) The requirements for to obtain mercy- here are some verses to help-. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. But we do not "deserve" mercy! Luckily for us, God is rich in mercy. Eph.2:4 The Word of God shows examples of what is needed to obtain mercy. One must needs ASK for mercy, "behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us," Matt.20:30 The "FEAR of the Lord" is also needed, "And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation." Luke 1:50. We must "love" God and KEEP his commandments if we want to receive his mercy, "O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;" Dan 9:4. And, 'confession'. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins," 1 John 1:9. Conclusion: "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13

not all Hungarians
Australia
15 Jan 2019 11:29

1375 views
We are Hungarians and do know that not all Hungarians agree with the Hungarian Elders, not even Elders in Ukraine or Serbia agree about remarriage while other spouse is still alive (sinned or not sinned doesn't matter)
When Panni Karlecik remarried in Baja - after about 20 yrs separated from Adam Karlecik from Australia, many members did not agree, walked out and some did not attend church service and neither took part in any of the wedding. Please do not assume all Hungarians agree with Sandor.

good to see
Australia
15 Jan 2019 12:14

1370 views
thanks for explaining that.

good to see that there ARE members that are awake.

good that they walked out, and did not participate in that evil error of work with the act of sin unto death.

that is what members should have done when sandor and his 2nd wife staying in the fellowship at marsden church.


No favoritism
Australia
15 Jan 2019 22:10

1332 views
"If we go on sinning ,after we have learned the truth,"NO SACRIFICE" can take away our sins...
All that is left ,is the terrifying wait for the "JUDGEMENT" and a raging fire, that will consume God's enemies."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hebrews, chapter 10 verses 26-27.

- If you are not sure , please read it again , and again and also again ..........~~~!!!!! It is the same in any ones language ...

No favoritism !
Australia
15 Jan 2019 22:16

1332 views
"If we go on sinning ,after we have learned the truth,"NO SACRIFICE" can take away our sins...
All that is left ,is the terrifying wait for the "JUDGEMENT" and a "Raging - Fire", that will consume God's enemies."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hebrews, chapter 10 verses 26-27.

- If you are not sure , please read it again , and again and also again ..........~~~!!!!! It is the same in any ones language ...

It is finished !...
Australia
25 Jan 2019 12:43

1069 views
Elders !
Please stop and listen,because : JESUS wants to talk to you !!!...

" Whoever - "causes" one of these little ones who believe in ME ,
"To SIN !"...,
it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were drowned in the depth of the sea ...

Math. Chapter 18 verse 6

Clarity
USA
25 Jan 2019 14:49

1062 views
Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, EXCEPT IT BE FOR FORNICATION, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Except=Exception. EXCEPT IT BE FOR FORNICATION.
Its crystal clear if someone divorces a spouse and remarries then they commit adultery, but the EXCEPTION is if that spouse committed fornication that frees the other spouse to freely marry without the risk of committing adultery. So yes, the other (non fornicating) spouse can remarry (even if their fornicating spouse is still alive).

Fornication and death are the ONLY stated exceptions.

maybe not
Australia
25 Jan 2019 16:23

1052 views
to: clarity,

let me try and use charity.

no 2 verses in the bible contradict each other.
if they do, then your teaching and explanation is not valid nor correct.

Matthew 19:9 does not contradict:

1 Corinthians 7:27
Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife.

nor does it contradict with these verses:

1 Corinthians 7:
10. To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.

11. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

nor with:

Matthew 5:32

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Pilgrim
Australia
25 Jan 2019 21:01

1033 views
TO CLARITY

You are wrong, regarding: Except=Exception, EXCEPT IT BE FOR FORNICATION.
A Christian is NOT permitted to put away one's spouse, (except for fornication). Furthermore: this, "EXCEPT" for fornication, does "NOT" permit a person to remarry once they have "put away one's spouse". It ONLY says, that a person can put away one's spouse for the reason 'fornication'. This IS according to the Word of God, in: 1 Cor. 7:10,11 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the LORD, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

This means: for 'fornication' a person may put away one's spouse, BUT MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED.

The word of God is very plain and clear. "LET HER REMAIN UNMARRIED" 1 Cor.7:11

My point IS FURTHER CONFIRMED by the following verses:

Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery ... ... And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. Mark 10:11-12
It works both ways, whether the man leaves his wife and remarries, he is committing adultery, and if the woman leave her husband and remarries she is committing adultery.

These are the words of Jesus Christ,
(and cannot possible be wrong -IN ANY WAY-) Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Luke 16:18

Reiterating: this means, whosoever "remarries" while their first spouse is still alive (alive in the bodily sense) IS COMMITTING ADULTERY. Even if they have divorced!!

And another point: "till death do us part" is referring to the bodily (natural/physical) death. Here is more scriptural evidence. Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Matthew 19:6 FLESH MEANS, the NATURAL BODY

We need to put, the "me" and "I" aside. And without preconceived opinions look into the Word of God, and then do as it says.

The Bible must needs be our rule/guideline in life.


Agree with Clarity
USA
25 Jan 2019 23:47

1016 views
Thanks for the comment on clarity.

Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, EXCEPT IT BE FOR FORNICATION, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

...but the EXCEPTION is if that spouse committed fornication that frees the other spouse to freely marry without the risk of committing adultery. So yes, the other (non fornicating) spouse can remarry (even if their fornicating spouse is still alive).

Some authors on this website owe an apology to the Hungarians! Are you humble enough to admit that you were wrong?

The Bible must be our rule/guideline in life!

careful dont mix
Australia
26 Jan 2019 11:33

982 views
let's not mix 2 topics in the one teaching.

one point here is reagrding a reason to divorce, or separate from your spouse as a married person.....
and
one point is whether a married person can remarry if their spouse is still alive.....

does Jesus' point refer to allowing to divorce or allowing to remarry.

read slowly all verses related, not only one verse...

if we take one verse, and stick to it and disregard all other verses, we could make a mistake on the teaching.....

all verses must coincide with each other.

no verse can contradict any other verse.

does "except for" allow the innocent spouse to divorce or separate from their guilty spouse?

or

does "except for" allow the innocent spouse to divorce AND remarry.

these are 2 topics, not one topic.

look at all verses relating to topic one and all verses relating to topic two......


please quote verse
Australia
26 Jan 2019 11:39

980 views
which bible verse states:

"whosoever puts his wife away for adultery is free to "remarry"?

where?

and

"whosoever puts his wife away for any other reason then adultery, is not free to remarry"?

where?

please locate these EXACT wordings in the bible........

and then quote chapter and verse.......


Pilgrim
Australia
26 Jan 2019 13:59

973 views
TO: 'Agree with Clarity'

Have you not read 'Pilgrim' 25 Jan 2019 21:01 ?

Your interpretation in Matt 19:9 'EXCEPT IT BE FOR FORNICATION' is incorrect! Let me try and explain again. A husband may put away his wife if she has committed fornication. And, a wife may put away her husband because of his fornication.

BUT, (according to Matt 19:9) such ARE NOT PERMITTED TO REMARRY. "and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

The "EXCEPTION" is permitting to 'put away' because of fornication.
**But NOT that they can then remarry again!! This is according to Matt 19:9

This point is further confirmed by other verses as well. 1Cor 7:10b-11  Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. It's crystal clear, "LET HER REMAIN UNMARRIED" This also applies to the male "LET HIM REMAIN UNMARRIED". How can she be reconciled to her husband if he remarried another woman? The commandment applies in both the female and male sense.

My point IS FURTHER CONFIRMED by the following verses:
Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery ... ... And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. Mark 10:11-12
It works both ways, whether the man leaves his wife and remarries, he is committing adultery, and if the woman leave her husband and remarries she is committing adultery.

These are the words of Jesus Christ,
(and cannot possible be wrong -IN ANY WAY-) Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Luke 16:18

Reiterating: this means, whosoever "remarries" while their first spouse is still alive (alive in the bodily sense) IS COMMITTING ADULTERY. Even if they have divorced!!

Your viewpoint clashes (conflicts) with the following verses:
Luke 16:18 Matt 9:9 1 Cor 7:10-11 Mark 10:11-12
Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

No my friend! The Hungarian elders are the ones who need to apologise and repent and reverse their opinion in this matter.




God/hungarian elders
Australia
26 Jan 2019 16:10

961 views
to:Agree with Clarity

on comment:
Some authors on this website owe an apology to the Hungarians! Are you humble enough to admit that you were wrong?

The hungarians elders were the first to allow remarriage within the nazarene church.

they need to repent from this.

the bible teaches:

Malachi 2:16
For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away:.............

God hates putting away, but the hungarian elders love putting away.

who do we need to follow and obey?
Gods teaching or the hungarian elders teaching?

who needs to apologise and repent?

God to the hungarian elders?
or
the hungarian elders to God?



END of ACCN
Australia
27 Jan 2019 11:12

900 views

There is nothing "HOLY" anymore !

The Hungarian Elders opened up the SLUDGE-GATE for the
"FREE-...RE-MARRIAGE" !!!!
NOTHING IS HOLY anymore ... !

The ACCN is not a HOLY -CHURCH anymore .
Thanks to the Hungarian Elders ....!

The ACCN is finished as a holy-church, after 170 years .

Samuel Frohlich could cry and spin in his grave ...









sharp true Gods word
Australia
27 Jan 2019 11:26

898 views
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deuteronomy 4:2)


18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18,19)


1. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. (2 Peter 2:1-3)


As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith. (1 Timothy 1:3-4)


10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:10-16)

not everyone
Australia
27 Jan 2019 11:28

897 views
to:
END of ACCN

The hungarian elders are defiled and the churches that accept their unbiblical teaching.

however, there are many nazarene churches around the world that do NOT accept this wicked, evil, sinful and deceitful teaching.



Pilgrim
Australia
27 Jan 2019 20:37

864 views
Why have the Hungarian elders started doing this now? They did not do it in times past. Has the Bible changed recently? Why do other Churches forbid such practice? Why the change? Who is triggering this new practice? Who is directing this to be done? Who is instructing and insisting this to be done? Where is it coming from? Is there a mole or an undercover agent (sent from the government) with an assignment (or mission) among the Hungarian elders? Are the other elders blind or asleep? Was there not a Judas among the twelve disciples? Whats to say that there isn't some Judas' among the elders today? For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? Luke 23:31  For such are FALSE APOSTLES, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 2 Corin.11:13 DO NOT BE AFRAID OF THEM !

fell asleep
Australia
27 Jan 2019 21:54

858 views
matthew 13:
25.but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.

Evil Forces
Australia
28 Jan 2019 22:59

791 views
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood,
but against the "RULERS"...,

Against the authorities ,against the "POWERS OF THIS DARK WORLD !"


Against the spiritual forces of EVIL of the heavenly realms ...


Ephesians : Chapter 6; verse 12

oh, yes
Australia
28 Jan 2019 23:37

785 views
perfectly true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear ones
USA
29 Jan 2019 2:07

777 views
Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, EXCEPT IT BE FOR FORNICATION, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

This verse is clear that if one puts away their spouse for anything other than fornication then it is sin. If they put away their spouse for fornication and marry another there is no sin involved.

This has been practiced here in the US and Canada for many years.

years of error
Australia
29 Jan 2019 9:39

754 views
many years of practice that is incorrect does not validate error of sin.

except does not allow remarriage.

except is referring to the only reason for putting away.

the 2nd part of the verse states clearly that they are committing adultery if the shall marry another.

also

this verse does not contradict:

1 Cor. 7:10,11
And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the LORD, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried,



Reprobate teachers
Australia
29 Jan 2019 13:38

737 views
I would not be too biased for the years of sinful practice of the elders.
The elders got double responsibility , because they act willfully,twisting the "Word of God" , for their convenience ...
These elders and false teachers got the special place in the HELL...

to obey or not
Australia
29 Jan 2019 13:56

734 views
disobedience to Gods teaching can change to obedience to Gods teaching.

willingness is the key.


Pilgrim
Australia
29 Jan 2019 22:46

696 views
To: Dear Ones

In Matthew 19:9 the "EXCEPT" Does NOT allow remarriage.
The "EXCEPT" is referring to the ONLY reason allowed for "putting away".
and NOT that one can then remarry!
As PROVED by the rest of the wording of that VERY verse.

If this was not so, then (like your opinion) it would "contradict" with other verses of the same subject.

The LORD commanded in 1 Cor. 7:10-11 "... if she depart, LET HER REMAIN UNMARRIED ..."

whosoever "remarries" while their first spouse is still alive (alive in the bodily sense) IS COMMITTING ADULTERY. Even if they have divorced!!

Your viewpoint clashes with the following verses:
Luke 16:18 Matt 19:9 1 Cor 7:10-11 Mark 10:11-12
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
... ... if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

To: Dear Ones
I pray that the good Lord would open your eyes to see His truth & message clearly.

Open Eyes
USA
29 Jan 2019 23:36

686 views
The Bible does not contradict. Those of you quoting verses are mixing up two very different scenarios. One involves sin in a marriage and the other does not. There are times when marriage in the Lord does not work out and there is provision to separate but not remarry. When sin is involved then by all means remarriage under the exception clause is permitted.

Why would one spouse be punished by the other spouses sin (fornication)?? Often the innocent spouse is young and is left with young children. God provided a way for these believers to remarry in the Lord! I completely support this Biblical teaching.

understand, fool
Australia
29 Jan 2019 23:47

683 views
was there anyone treated unjustly more the Jesus?

who is then more worthy to not suffer, when Jesus chose to suffer injustice.

so, if you are not in sin, you are free from that sin.

if you are innocent, praise the Lord.

but, if you are innocent, that does not allow you to commit adultery.







please quote verse
Australia
30 Jan 2019 0:20

679 views
re. "open eyes"

re. Why would one spouse be punished by the other spouses sin???

why would the innocent spouse want to go in the lake of fire, because their guilty spouse chooses to?

please explain????????????????????????????????????????????????????

please quote the bible verse that allows remarriage?

quote word for word.
eg
- the scripture thats worded allow to marry again, or remarry, or can remarry, or remarriage when one spouse has committed some level of sin, or putting away is allowed, or find another spouse because your spouse is in sin...etc,

why doesn't anyone quote this type of bible verse?

Pilgrim
Australia
30 Jan 2019 8:28

643 views
To: Open Eyes

Have you not read "Pilgrim: 29 Jan 2019 22:46"? Do you not understand that explanation? It seems that you are turning a blind eye to God's commandment.
You seem to be ignoring my explanation; which I have explained and proved that it IS according the the Scriptures.

I understand you "fully". But your opinion contradicts with the Word of God. There is NO Biblical "exception clause" permitting person to remarry after putting away one's spouse. NONE

You are completely misinterpreting Matt 19:9

In Matthew 19:9 the "EXCEPT" Does NOT allow remarriage.
The "EXCEPT" is referring to the ONLY reason allowed for "putting away".
and NOT that one can then remarry!
As PROVED by the rest of the wording of that VERY verse.

My point is furthermore confirmed by the words of Jesus Christ:
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
Luke 16:18

It's very clear. The LORD commanded in 1 Cor. 7:10-11 "... if she depart, LET HER REMAIN UNMARRIED ..."

Maybe you, or someone in your family, or close to you "has" done this; and you are trying to find a justification to avoid spiritual anguish for this sin.

Please do not take this personally. Stand back, and think clearly. We need to put "me" and "I" aside and accept the Lord's commandments "as they are". Many find this hard to do, but it is exceptionally important. Otherwise we are placing ourselves "first" and the Lord "in second place" in our lives.

If you do not accept the Words of Jesus Christ, then I cannot help you. I can only immensely pity you.



Europe
USA
30 Jan 2019 14:51

609 views
I thought that if Europe does it then its ok. That seems to be many members view in the ACC....Right or wrong...if its done in Europe its allowed.

Wanting to Learn
USA
5 Feb 2019 7:38

400 views
These are some difficult issues, and I somewhat envy those to whom things seem crystal clear from Scripture on what to do when it comes to remarriage. And I don’t mean that either one way or the other – some are convinced that it’s allowed, others are convinced that it is not. I wish I could feel ‘convinced.’ I did have a couple questions for those who might come through here, and would humbly ask for your gentleness in reply – I’m not trying to create conflict. These are some things I’ve been in prayer about lately as I just don’t feel grounded. It isn’t something that is my ‘problem’ per se; indeed, I’ve been blessed with a happy marriage for over 20 years. If remarriage is something I ever have to face, it’ll be because the Lord has called my beloved spouse home. I just want to think rightly on this matter, as God would. But regardless of what any one feels with respect to remarriage, hopefully all would agree that divorce is a horrible, awful, destructive thing contrary to God’s plan and will for marriage, and something to be avoided such that there would never even be the ‘need’ (if it can be called that) to consider something like remarriage. The past few years I’ve watched this ‘meltdown’ occur in one of my in-law’s families; there are many tears watching the train wreck happen, and the collateral damage is very great. No wonder God hates divorce (Mal 2:16).

1. When it comes to ‘legitimate’ divorce, the example given in this thread is what Jesus said in Matthew 19:9. The KJV renders the word to be ‘fornication,’ but other versions call it ‘sexual immorality,’ which seems much broader. If ‘fornication’ is what was intended… how is fornication even possible when one is married? Wouldn’t all such activity by married people be considered ‘adultery’ instead? For some reason I thought ‘fornication’ was only between single people, in which case I’m hard pressed to think of how ‘fornication’ would apply to divorce. Was this a Jewish thing? Maybe for the time when the couple was ‘engaged,’ and seen under law as basically married… but the wedding hadn’t taken place yet? Makes me think of Joseph, who initially didn’t know what to do with Mary when she was found with child, but was contemplating a bill of divorcement. If ‘fornication’ is what was intended here, then this would appear to remove even the ‘exception’ for a divorce.

2. I don’t think it’s been mentioned above, but how about the passages later on in I Corinthians 7, where counsel is given on what to do when one’s unbelieving spouses depart from the marriage. I Corinthians 7:15 says that if the unbelieving spouse departs, the brother/sister remaining is not under ‘bondage.’ What does this mean? Does this mean the Christian spouse left behind is no longer bound to the marriage and could remarry?

3. How about this situation. Let’s say a person or couple divorces/remarries (maybe even multiple times) in their unconverted state. And then they repent of their sins in coming to faith in Christ. So now you have a couple coming to church where at least one of the individuals involved has divorced/remarried at least once. How is this situation viewed or handled in your church? Is the couple asked to split apart, as they are considered to be living in adultery, having been party to previous marriages? Or are all things considered made new in Christ?

4. One point raised in the thread that troubles me on this issue, is the handling of the innocent party. Perhaps some of the trouble is, that there is rarely an ‘innocent’ party, as it typically takes ‘two’ to tangle. But if there truly is a spouse that is entirely innocent, I’m grappling with the idea that God would intend for the innocent person to be denied the blessing of marriage because of their spouse’s sin. And maybe that is His intent. One person said that this is basically what Jesus was asked to do. And I suppose that’s true – He was the only true ‘innocent’ that ever walked the planet, and upon Him was our sin undeservingly laid. But in one of His interactions with the Pharisees, He talked about them ‘condemning the guiltless’ in the things they did (Matthew 12:7) Would forbidding remarriage to an innocent spouse be ‘condemning the guiltless?’

Wanting to Learn
USA
5 Feb 2019 7:39

399 views
5. One point raised above in terms of not remarrying, was with I Corinthians 7:27. It’s a good verse, but I’m not sure it has bearing on the remarriage-after-divorce question, especially when you include the verse right after it, which says that if the person marries, they haven’t sinned. I’m wondering if there’s a different context. Paul talks about a ‘present distress’ in the 26th verse. Does anyone know what that ‘present distress’ was? I’ve wondered if they were under persecution at that time, and he was simply instructing them on the practicalities of being married: If you are married, then you have to deal with it… but if you aren’t married… then it’s not a good idea right now… but if you do get married you haven’t sinned.

There is more that I typed up, but I’ve doubtless been wearisome enough as it is. Thanks for considering this post.

Divorce and remarria
USA
7 Feb 2019 17:16

279 views
There have been many comments made on this topic, Divorce, and remarriage after Divorce, And all of the writers are confident that they are grounded in the truth of the scriptures!
Let us first consider the question put to the Lord Jesus by the Pharisees in Mathew 19 verse 3 " is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" So it is the question of putting away his wife for every cause, that is at heart!
It was a common practice allowed by Moses because of their hard heart to just ask for a bill of divorcement, Deuteronomy 24/1, verse 2 states " she may go and be another man's wife", But she could not come back to her former husband should the other marriage fail or husband dies! Verses 2-4 of the same chapter.
Now in the case of the adulterers, It is recorded in Leviticus 20/10 " And the man that committed adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer, and adulteress shall be put to death". The following verses 12,13,14,15,16, (incest, homosexuals, bestiality) are also sins incurred death for committing those sins.

In any of these cases, the guilty spouse/s had to pay with their lives, and the innocent spouse/s were then at liberty afterward to remarry whom they wanted! Who said this? In verse 1 of the same chapter says" And the Lord spake unto Moses saying"
In the event that a man married a maid as it, is recorded in Deuteronomy 22/13 and afterward brings accusations against her that she was not a virgin when he took her, her father had to prove by showing the cloth from the wedding night, which was the proof of her virginity, He may not put her away all his life, but if it was not found that she was was, then she was stoned to death( verse 21) so was evil to be put away from among God's people. 22-24. deals with other sins again worthy of death.
We read that Joseph when he found out that Mary his "espoused" was with child, he being a " just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily" Mathew 18-19.
How was he going to put her away, he was not yet married to her or were they considered already as married, as in Deut.22/23. "Betrothed," 24 says she was. Considered as married! " he has humbled his neighbor's wife".

In the case of the woman caught in the very act of adultery in St.John 8/3-7 Jesus did not contest the punishment for adultery, he actually invited the guiltless to carry out the punishment, for he knew that all men are born in sin, not one righteous, he came to save us from our sins and bring forth mercy.

Going back to the question put to Jesus in Matthew 19, Jesus remarked on their comment " for every cause?", he made exceptions" And I say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife, EXCEPT it is for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery".

The putting away cannot mean just live apart one from another since in 1st Corinthians 7/10 The Lord " through the Apostle Paul, The wife" not to depart, and if she departs, she is to remain unmarried or else return unto her husband, and the husband not to put away his wife, There is no sin of adultery involved here, it is just not being able to live together due to disagreements. Or we could say the " every cause" the Pharisees asked Jesus about.

Many Elders in the past had to deal with the hard question of Divorces and Remarriage, when is marriage considered valid? Do those who Married in unbelief and Divorced and Remarried occurred in their Unconverted State, are they to be baptized, since their spouse they Divorced and still alive and living with another spouse, or a whoremonger with many partners?
The common path is taken by the early Elders was, what was forgiven and buried in the Baptismal water is to be considered finished" What God has cleansed we are not to call common or unclean" Acts 10/15

If after Baptism, one married and committed a sin unto death as per above quotations, the innocent spouse could file for Divorce and remarry because the spouse became one with another person, be it adultery or another immoral sin which would have been dealt with by stoning or other means of death. In the writings of Samuel Froelich in the book " Matrimony," he addressed this view also. It was not that the innocent was committing adultery.
" Know ye not that your bodies are members of Christ?
Shall we then take the members of Christ, and make them members of a Harlot? God forbid. Know Ye not that he which is joined to a Harlot is one body? For two said he, shall be one flesh. 1 Corinthians 6/15-16

incorrect
Australia
7 Feb 2019 17:52

273 views
to: divorce/remarry

re.
the innocent spouse could file for Divorce and remarry because the spouse became one with another person, be it adultery or another immoral sin which would have been dealt with by stoning or other means of death.

INCORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Matthew 19:9 the "EXCEPT" Does NOT allow remarriage.
The "EXCEPT" is referring to the ONLY reason allowed for "putting away".
and NOT that one can then remarry!

The teaching of Jesus Christ:
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
Luke 16:18

It's very clear. The LORD commanded in 1 Cor. 7:10-11 "... if she depart, LET HER REMAIN UNMARRIED ..."

its not hard to accept.


look plainly
Australia
7 Feb 2019 20:27

260 views
Luke 16:18 is "VERY" plain.

first part:
Whosoever putteth away his wife....

second part:
and marrieth another.......

third part:
committeth adultery:

and continues also to state:

fourth part:
whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband

fifth part:
committeth adultery

what is unclear about this teaching of Jesus Christ???????

NOWHERE in the bible does it state: whoever putteth away and marrieth isnt adultery.

If so, please quote bible, chapter and verse!!!!!!!!!!!





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A B U S E R S  :  H A L L  O F  S H A M E 
Paul Pentsa
Brisbane
Janko Tomek
Melbourne
Andrew Szabo
Perth
Vlada Papuga
Melbourne
Philip Ruzeu
Melbourne
Nick Pentsa
Brisbane
Michael Stanjo
Melbourne
STAY AWAY FROM THIS MAN! His mouth is full of Biblical verses but his heart is filled with hatred, jealousy, treachery and lust for power. This FALSE CHRISTIAN is the root of almost all evil in ACCN in Australia and he will even take you to court, if he can't get his way.
Janko is pretty much like Paul, dishonest and unloving, just less intelligent. Janko is now building his humongous "warehouse" in Tarneit, destined to remain void of both faith and members. This UNREPENTED SINNER is still dreaming about becoming an elder!
Hard-hearted and egoistic, this long-time "elder" has caused immense grief, division and misery amongst the Nazarenes in Australia. Some even call him a sadist... not that Andrew really cares about anyone's opinion, though. Currently residing in a nursing home in Perth.
Earned his nickname by constantly repeating "Ljubazni" (Dear Ones) while preaching. This recently appointed "elder assistant" is ambitious, but at the same time not clever enough to realize he will always be just Paul's and Janko's messenger boy.
Philip is Paul Pentsa's son-in-law and definitely his best student. Proud, stubborn, arrogant - a classic bigot. Due to his off-putting personality and some weird beliefs, he's not on very good terms with Janko Tomek and other Slovaks in Tarneit.
Here is your future Elder, whether you like the idea or not. Nicky is "a very nice guy". No gift for preaching or leadership skills, but being Paul Pentsa's son, he's actually got everything he needs. Sooner or later his Dad will find the way to install him as his successor.
Janko Tomek's loyal admirer and bodyguard - sleazy, hypocritical, dishonest and ignorant. His interpretation of the Scriptures can make you laugh as well as his awkward sermons in broken English.


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