Spiritual and Mental Abuse in Apostolic Christian Church Nazarene in Australia
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ACCN Forum | THE DEPOSITION OF PETAR STEFAN

To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 14:31

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IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
LORAIN COUNTY, OHIO
- - -
THE APOSTOLIC CHRISTIAN )
CHURCH-NAZARENE, INC., )
Plaintiff, ) Case No.15CV188025 ) Judge James Miraldi
v. ) ) THE NAZARENE CONGREGATION, ) et al.,
Defendants.
- - -
THE DEPOSITION OF PETAR STEFAN
TUESDAY, MARCH 29, 2016
- - -


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 14:41

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The deposition of PETAR STEFAN, a witness, taken as if upon cross-examination by the Plaintiff, under the Ohio Rules of Civil Procedure, taken before me, Ann Wirick, a Notary Public, in and for the State of Ohio, pursuant to Notice, at Lazzaro and Kraus, Second Floor, Shaker Heights, Ohio, commencing at 10:30 a.m., the day and date above set forth.


- - -
PETAR STEFAN a witness, called for examination by the Plaintiff, under the Rules, having been first duly affirmed, as hereinafter certified, was deposed and said as
follows:
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. I just want to make sure that you understand that this morning that you are affirming to tell the truth. Do you understand that?
A. Yeah.
Q. Have you had a chance to talk to your attorney about what we're going to be doing here this morning in terms of questions that'll be asked and how we're going to proceed?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. Attorney-client privilege. Don't talk about anything we've spoken about.
Q. Okay. Do you have an idea of what's going to take place this morning?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And do you understand that I'm going to ask you a lot of questions this morning about a case that's been filed in Lorain County? Do you understand that?
A. Yeah.
Q. You have to speak up.
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And so I want to set some ground rules so that we understand each other about how we're going to proceed this morning. Is that okay with you?
A. Can you speak loud? I don't hear.
Q. Sure. I want to set some of the ground rules of how we're going to proceed this morning. Is that okay with you?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. So one of the ground rules is that when you answer -- when I ask a question, you have to answer with a word, and you have to say it loud enough so that the court reporter can hear
it. Will you do that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And I'm not here to trick you in any way. Is this good? Can you hear me now?
A. Yes. A little bit better.
Q. If there's a problem hearing me because I tend to talk softly, will you bring that to my attention, that you couldn't hear me, like you did before, will you do that?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And if you don't understand the question, I want you to bring that to my attention also. Will you do that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Because if you don't understand a question, I'll rephrase it so that you do
understand it. Is that fair enough?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And if you do answer a question I'm going to assume that you understood the 16 question, and the answer you gave you wanted -- that's the answer you wanted to give.
Is that also fair?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. So let's start out with something easy. Tell me your name.
A. Petar Stefan.
Q. And how do you spell your first name?
A. P-e-t-a-r.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 14:43

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Q. And your last name?
A. S-t-a-e-f-n [sic].
Q. And, Mr. Stefan, what's your date of birth?
A. It's 8/28/1942.
Q. And where were you born?
A. Yugoslavia, former Yugoslavia.
Q. Okay. The country that was formerly Yugoslavia
A. Right.
Q. -- that was where you were born? And when did you come to the United States?
A. 18 -- March 18, '69.
Q. So I'm a history major, not a math major, but if you were born in 1942 and you came to 16 the United States in 1969 you were about 27 years 17 old when you came to this country; is that correct?
A. Absolutely right.
Q. All right. And are you an American citizen?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you become a citizen?
A. I'm not so sure, maybe 2003. I'm not so sure.
Q. Okay. And when you came to the United States at the age of 27 from Yugoslavia, who did you come with?
A. Repeat the question.
Q. Sure. When you came to the United States in 1969, did you come by yourself, or did 6 other people come with you, family members?
A. Wife, one son, and one on way to be born.
Q. Okay. So your wife, and what's your wife's name?
A. Katica.
Q. Katica? Is that spelled, K-A-T-I-C-A?
A. Yeah.
Q. So Katica Stefan is your wife.
A. Yes.
Q. She came to the United States in 1969. Your son, and what is your son's name?
A. Dorel Stefan.
Q. And Dorel Stefan is in the room with us this morning –
A. That's right.
Q. -- is that correct?
A. Right.
Q. And how old is Dorel?
A. 59.
Q. Okay.
A. 49.
Q. All right.
A. 49.
Q. He's 49. All right. And when you lived in Yugoslavia did you go to school?
A. I have three grades only.
Q. Three grades?
A. First, second, and third. Three grades.
Q. And why did you leave school after three grades?
A. What?
Q. You left -- you had no more education in Yugoslavia after three grades you said; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. So how old were you when you stopped going to school?
A. Like between nine and ten.20
Q. Did you learn how to read and write before you left school?
A. Yeah.

To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 14:45

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Q. Why did you leave school at the age of nine or ten?
A. At that time, the problem was my father was a farmer. And we had almost 14 -- we got almost 14 kids. We had to go on the field and work.
Q. Okay. So you had 13 brothers and sisters?
A. With me, 14, yes.
Q. Okay. And did you learn how to speak English when you were in Yugoslavia?
A. No.
Q. Okay. You had no experience speaking English?
A. Only one language, only Romanian. And when I go to the Army, then I learn Serbian.
Q. Okay. So at some point you left the farm and you entered the army of Yugoslavia?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you serve in the army of Yugoslavia?
A. 1963 to 1965.
Q. And when you were in the Yugoslavian Army you learned how to speak Serbian; is --
A. Right.
Q. -- that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. But that's not your native language.
A. No.
Q. Romanian is.
A. Romanian.
Q. All right. And when you were in the military, what was your job?
A. Like army, you know.
Q. Okay. Were you just a soldier in the army?
A. Soldier, regular soldier.
Q. Okay. When you left the army did you continue to work in Yugoslavia?
A. Right.
Q. Where did you work after that?
A. I was a bricklayer.
Q. Okay.
A. I learn how to build houses.
Q. And where did you go to learn how to be a bricklayer and build houses?
A. What?
Q. Where? Who did you go to work with, or how did you learn to become a bricklayer and build houses?
A. I go to the -- I don't know -- the contractor, whatever you call it over here. Over there, they teach you. I was 17 years old and he take me, like three years I have to learn how to lay bricks.
Q. Okay. So you worked with a bricklayer to learn --
A. For free. For free. Not -- no pay.
Q. -- this trade? So this is kind of like -- what's the word I'm looking for, when you work for somebody for free to learn a trade, is there a special word for that?
A. I can say it's like a slave.
Q. Like a slave?
A. That's the best -
Q. All right.
A. -- word I can come.
Q. But you -- in return for your work for free, you learned a trade, is that how it -
A. Right.
Q. And you did that for three years?
A. Right.
Q. Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So at the age of 20 did you continue to work for this guy?
A. Right.
Q. You did.
A. I get paid.
Q. All right. How long did you work for that person as a bricklayer?
A. Since I came to the United States.
Q. Okay. So you continued to work for him until you came to the U.S., correct?
A. Like a bricklayer.
Q. In 1969 you left with your wife.
A. 1968 I left. 1968, then I left, I go to Italy anyway.
Q. Okay. So you were in Italy then for a year?
A. No. For probably six months.
Q. Six months.
A. Yeah.
Q. And then from Italy you then came to the United States –
A. Right.
Q. -- is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. And after you came to America, did you go to school anywhere?
A. No.

To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 14:50

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Q. And where did you -- did you work when you came to America?
A. Yes. I land in New York and I work in New York for, like, knitting, you know, sweater. Maybe -- shop -- knitting shop.
Q. Okay. And how long did you live in New York?
A. I live until October.
Q. October of what year?
A. '69.
Q. Okay. So you weren't there very long after you came to the --
A. Very short.
Q. Short time. And after you worked in a knitting -- knitting factory, is that where you worked?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And after you stopped17 working at the knitting factory, what did you do? Where did you work?
A. We move in Ohio.
Q. Well, where did you move in Ohio?
A. Cleveland.
Q. And why did you move to Cleveland, Ohio?
A. Why? Because I'm born in a small town. And New York, I was scared of the people. I live in Brooklyn.
Q. Okay.
A. And I was little bit -- and I meet somebody from here, Jon Patrutz, come to New York, and he said -- I want to go back to Yugoslavia, I say. And he said, don't go. You going Ohio. And I come in Ohio.
Q. How did you meet Jon Patrutz?
A. He's my cousin.
Q. Jon Patrutz is --
A. Second cousin.
Q. -- your cousin? Second cousin?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And he's the one who encouraged you to move to --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- Cleveland; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And so when did you move to Cleveland, Ohio?
A. Repeat the question.
Q. When did you move to Cleveland, Ohio?
A. In October of '69.
Q. Okay. And when you came to Cleveland, Ohio, did you get a job?
A. Yes.
Q. And where did you work?
A. I work in Kirkwood Industry.
Q. Kirkwood?
A. Kirkwood Industry.
Q. Can you spell that for me?
A. I can't. I don't know.
Q. Say it again.
A. Kirkwood Industry.
Q. Kirkwood?
A. Kirkwood. That's on West 130th, Cleveland.
Q. Okay. And what kind of work did you do at that job?
A. That's a machine shop.
Q. Okay. And what was your job at that –
A. Punch press operator.
Q. So you ran a machine, you were a punch press operator; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. And while you were working in Cleveland, Ohio, when you first came to live here, were you learning English at that time?
A. I don't hear the question.
Q. Were you learning English at that time?
A. I learn English with the workers. I don't go to school.
Q. Okay. Were the workers at that job, were they -- did they speak English with you?
A. Yeah. It's different language what they speak.
Q. Okay. So as you sit here today would it be fair to say you speak Romanian?
A. Right.
Q. Serbian and English, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. How long did you stay at the machine shop?
A. Until I retire.
Q. And when did you retire?
A. In 2006.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 14:52

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Q. Did you work as a bricklayer during the17 time that you were in Cleveland, Ohio?
A. Only like side work, side job little 19 bit, not much.
Q. So you would just do pick-up jobs on the 21 side and someone would hire you?
A. No. For somebody else, not -- they pay me like 10, 15 dollars an hour then.
Q. Okay.
A. But for few, not too long.
Q. When you were working at the machine shop and you were doing these side jobs as a bricklayer, did you speak English with those people?
A. That was our people. I work with the6 Romanian people.
Q. That was for the -- the side jobs, the brick side jobs was for Romanian people?
A. Romanian people.
Q. Well, when you were working your job at the shop, you spoke English. Fair?
A. With people –
Q. Is that fair enough?
A. With people, who speak English, but we have a lot our people. A lot in the shop is Romanian.
Q. Okay. Do you read English?
A. Not that good.
Q. Have you -- since you've lived in 20 Northeast Ohio, have you -- did you buy a house?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you had more than one house? Have you bought and sold houses while you've lived in Northeast Ohio?
A. I buy the first one on Cleveland, West 122nd, and I live there for six years. Then I move in Strongsville, Ohio.
Q. Okay. And how long did you live in Strongsville?
A. Next is going to be 40 years.
Q. Okay. What's that address in Strongsville?
A. 13015 Atlantic Road, Strongsville.
Q. When you bought your first house, on 10 West 122nd Street, did you have to sign paperwork for buying that house, like contracts?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And were those -- was that14 paperwork and contracts, were they in English?
A. Romanian.
Q. They were in Romanian?
A. Romanian.
Q. Okay. Did you go to a bank and get a mortgage?
A. That was Romanian bank.
Q. Okay. And the --
A. And the owner.
Q. And the mortgage that you got from the bank, was that in Romanian?
A. That was Romanian bank, and the owner.
Q. I'm asking you, the documents that you signed when you bought your house at West 122nd Street, were those documents in English.
A. In English.
Q. Okay. So -- and you signed contracts then that were written in English?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. And you understood what you were signing and what the contracts contained even though they were in English, correct?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Okay. So it would be fair to say that so far you've understood all the questions I've asked you, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And, again, you'll bring it to my attention if I use a word that you do not understand, so that we can assume you understood 19 the question I asked, and the answer you gave you wanted to give; is that fair?
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. Now, you're here today with the lawyer Monica Russell; is that right?
A. Right.
Q. And when did you first talk to Ms. Russell? When did you first ever talk to her?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. You can tell him the date, but you can't tell him anything we spoke about, if you remember when.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. When did you first talk to Ms. Russell?
A. I don't remember.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 14:53

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Q. Okay. Well, do you remember being in10 her office and signing documents on September 18th,2015?
A. Yes.
Q. Had you met with her prior to September14 18th, 2015? Had you met with her before September 18th, 2015?
A. September? Yes.
Q. Okay. So if I understand you correctly, you were in Monica Russell's, the lawyer's office, on September 18th, 2015, and you signed documents that day, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. But, in fact, you had met with her sometime before September 18th, 2015; is that right?
MS. RUSSELL: It's just if you remember. You either know or you don't.
MR. KRAUS: Let him answer the question.
A. I'm not remember.
Q. When you went to the lawyer's office on September 18th, 2015, were there documents already prepared for your signature that day?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So prior to that day did you have discussions with Monica Russell --
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. Don't talk about any discussions I had with you.
MR. KRAUS: I'm not asking about discussion. I'm asking –
MS. RUSSELL: You're getting too close into information that's protected by the attorney-client privilege.
MR. KRAUS: But close doesn't count. I'm asking when, and how many –
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Let me ask you this, how many times did you meet with Monica Russell before September 18th, 2015; was it more than one time?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, can we agree that you did meet with her prior to September 18th, 2015, the day that you signed those documents that had already been prepared for your signature? You'll agree with that, won't you?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And did you meet with her11 more than once before September 18th, 2015, when 12 you signed documents?
A. I'm not so sure, you know. More than 14 once or two.
Q. Okay. So maybe it was twice you met with her before September 18th, 2015?
A. I'm not so sure, you know.
Q. Why are you not so sure? Are you having a problem with your memory?
A. It sometimes, you know, it happens.
Q. What happens?
A. If you remember everything, you know, so much.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 14:53

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Q. Okay. Well, you do remember that you've met with Monica Russell at least twice before September 18th.
MS. RUSSELL: No. Objection. You’re mischaracterizing his testimony. He said he met with me before. He said he --
MR. KRAUS: Monica, please don't --
MS. RUSSELL: -- couldn't remember how many --
MR. KRAUS: Please don't instruct your --
MS. RUSSELL: -- times,
Mr. Kraus.
MR. KRAUS: Please don't instruct your client. You can –
MS. RUSSELL: Well, don't mischaracterize his testimony.
MR. KRAUS: You can object.
MS. RUSSELL: He's already said he didn't remember.
MR. KRAUS: That's fine. And you've objected. And that's certainly what you're here to do, if you think there's something objectionable, the court will review it, but for you to give him instructions of how to answer or what he thinks, that's not right.
MS. RUSSELL: I am instructing you that your -- the way you are phrasing your questions mischaracterizes his prior testimony –
MR. KRAUS: Okay.
MS. RUSSELL: -- which is misleading, that's a proper objection to make at a deposition.
MR. KRAUS: That's all right. You can object, but you can't give a talking objection. It's not appropriate.
MS. RUSSELL: A talking -
MR. KRAUS: I'm not going to argue this, but --
MS. RUSSELL: -- objection is actually appropriate --
MR. KRAUS: Monica, I'm not going to --
MS. RUSSELL: -- when it's an issue that can be corrected at the deposition, that is what the rules are.
MR. KRAUS: Okay.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. So let me ask you the question. You will agree you met with Monica Russell before September 15th, 2015 [sic], when you signed the documents that were already prepared for your signature, correct?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. Would you admit that you met with her more than one time regarding the documents that were prepared for your signature on September 18th, 2015?
A. I don't know. I don't understand the question, what.
Q. Okay. You don't understand my question, I'll rephrase it for you so that you understand. My question is, how many times did you meet with the lawyer, Monica Russell, before you signed documents in her office on September 18th, 2015.
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Stefan, you shook your head. The --
MR. KRAUS: Don't --
MS. RUSSELL: -- court reporter needs a verbal response. Does that mean you don't remember? Or --
MR. KRAUS: Please. That's really wrong. He'll answer. We're waiting for him to give an answer. Do you --
MS. RUSSELL: I'm making sure the testimony is accurate so she understands what she's taking down because a head shake --
MR. KRAUS: No. I think what you're trying -- I think what you're doing is giving him instructions, and that's wrong.
MS. RUSSELL: Well, you keep asking the same question over and over.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Do you understand the question? Do you understand the question that I asked?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Prior to September 18th, 2015, you met with Monica Russell on another day; is that right?
A. I don't know. I can't -- I don't know, once, maybe.
Q. Okay. All right. And when you met with Ms. Russell prior to September 18th, 2015, did you meet at her office?
A. Yes.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 15:30

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Q. And was your son, Dorel, with you that day?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall the day that you were
there? Do you remember the date that you were there with Dorel before September 18th, 2015? Do you remember the day?
A. No.
Q. Okay. You don't remember that day. And it may have been more than one visit to her office before September 18th, 2015; is that correct?
A. I'm not so sure. I don't know.
Q. When you met with the lawyer before
September 18th, 2015, Dorel was with you; was Traian Mohan with you that -- for that meeting?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So it's your testimony that prior to September 18th, 2015, on an earlier date you were at the lawyer's office with Dorel and Traian Mohan; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And was it a week before September 18th,
2015, was it two weeks before? How many days before that meeting on September 18th, 2015 did you, Dorel, and Traian go to the lawyer's office?
A. I'm not remember how many days.
Q. But you're sure that Traian Mohan was
with you at that meeting, and that was a meeting where no documents were prepared; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. How did you get Ms. Russell's name? Did you get her name as the lawyer?
A. Through my son.
Q. Okay. So is it -- so it was Dorel who got the name Monica Russell as the lawyer; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. Is it your testimony that the lawyer spoke or met with Traian Mohan before September 18th, 2015?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. By the way, Traian Mohan's in the room today for this deposition. You see him right over in the corner; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Did The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene hire Ms. Russell to be the church's lawyer? Do you understand the question?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Listen, if you don't understand
the question, just tell me you don't understand, okay? You've got to say yes or no. You have to speak.
A. No. No understand.
Q. All right. But you will -- if I do ask questions you don't understand, you'll bring it to my attention, right? Right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So who hired Ms. Russell to be the church's lawyer?
A. We hire.
Q. When you say we, who is we?
A. I, my son, and Mohan.
Q. Okay. When the lawyer was hired was there a fee agreement signed? Did you sign paperwork hiring her as your lawyer or the lawyer for -- of the church? Was there some document you signed, a contract?
A. I don't understand the question.
Q. Okay. When you, Dorel, and Traian Mohan hired Monica Russell as a lawyer, did you -- did any of you sign an agreement as to how she was going to be hired, and what her rate and fees would be?
A. Yes.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 15:34

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Q. Okay. And was that document signed before September 18th, 2015? Let me ask it this way, you went to the office of Monica Russell on September 18th, 2015, and you signed legal documents; is that true?
A. Yeah.
Q. It's true. So prior to that September 14 18th, 2015 meeting, at the earlier meeting did you sign a fee agreement contract with the lawyer?
A. About we hire her to do the job?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And that was on the day before --it was some date before September 18th, 2015, that you hired her to do the job, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. All right. And when you hired the lawyer to do the job, was she given a check as part of the agreement for her to do the job? Did someone give her money that day?
A. I don't understand, what?
Q. When the lawyer was hired to do the job, was she given a check? Did you pay her?
A. Not right away.
Q. Okay. When you paid her, was that with a church check?
A. The first one?
Q. Yes.
A. Yeah, we agreed.
Q. When you agreed to hire the lawyer to do the job, Ms. Russell; when you agreed for her to be hired, was she given a check by you, Dorel, or Traian?
A. Yes.
Q. And the check that was given to her, was
that a church check? Was that a check drawn on The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene account?
A. Yeah, but we put the money there, our money.
Q. All right. Just so I understand, are you telling me that you deposited money in the church account? When I say the church -- just so we understand, when I refer to the church I'm talking about The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene, Columbia Station, okay?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. So are you saying you deposited money before you hired Ms. Russell as the lawyer for the church?
A. Yes. We have it. We --
Q. I'm sorry. Can you tell me what you8 just said?
A. Yeah. We pay before -- deposit before.
Q. So you deposited money in the church account --
A. Right.
Q. -- and then you wrote a check on the church account and hired the lawyer; is that what happened?
A. That what happened in the first check.
Q. Okay. Was there a second check, a second payment?
A. Second payment, we pay.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 15:38

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Q. Okay. And so the second payment wasn't a check drawn on the church account?
A. No.
Q. You didn't use church funds in the second check; is that correct? Did you use church funds on the second check?
A. No.
Q. Why didn't you use church funds on the second check?
A. Because we agree. We was in a parking, and we ask Mohan. We can pay our own -- own and only for, like, from each one. And he said, no, pay from the money in the church. And he gave us -- Dorel, he was the treasurer, write the check for like $300.
Q. So the first -- you're talking about the first check?
A. The first check, right.
Q. Okay. So the first check was written by -- filled in by Dorel as treasurer of the church; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. And then there was a second payment, but that was not a church check.
A. Not from the church.
Q. Okay. Why did you not use church funds for the second check?
A. Because we agree only first one and the rest of them, no. We don't have too much money left.
Q. How much money was in the account in September of 2015; do you know?
A. No, I do not know.
Q. Would Dorel have all those bank records?
A. Absolutely.
Q. All right. What was your understanding why you were -- why you were meeting -- excuse me. Let me say this again. What is your understanding as to why you were meeting with Ms. Russell prior to the September 18th, 2015 meeting?
A. I'm not -- I just don't remember.
Q. I'm not asking what day you met, I'm asking a different question. I want to know what was your understanding as to why you were going to meet with a lawyer.
A. Why we meet?
Q. Why were you meeting with the lawyer?
A. Because we closed the church.
Q. Okay. When did you close the church?
A. On August 29th.
Q. All right. So the church was closed on August 29th, 2015; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. All right. Had you met with a lawyer, any lawyer, before August 29th, 2015, regarding closing the church?
A. No.
Q. So sometime after August 29th, that's when you met with the lawyer, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And what was your understanding as to why you were meeting with the lawyer?
MS. RUSSELL: I'm going to throw an objection here. Mr. Stefan, just make sure you not talk about anything that we actually discussed with each other. Any of that would be protected by attorney-client privilege. So when answering the questions just make sure you don't talk about anything you and I actually discussed. So if you can answer, go ahead.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Why were you meeting with the lawyer after August 29th, 2015? What was your understanding as to why you were going to go see a lawyer?
A. Because we closed the church.
Q. Okay. Why does that lead to hiring a lawyer? Why would closing the church require you to go see a lawyer? What was your understanding as to why that was happening?
A. Because Zula and Dmytro, they take us to the court.
Q. Okay.
A. Because we are the trustee of the church.


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15 Jun 2019 15:42

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Q. All right. I'm trying to -- let me rephrase my question. Who suggested hiring a lawyer after August 29th, 2015? Who came up with that idea?
A. All of us three, all of us.
Q. Okay. When you say all of us three, you're talking about Traian Mohan –
A. Petar Stefan.
Q. -- yourself, and Dorel?
A. And Dorel. That's right.
Q. And tell me the conversations the three of you had regarding hiring a lawyer after you decided to close the church; what did you discuss about hiring a lawyer?
A. We not discuss too much about it because when we heard -- we receive a letter from the -- we knew that something gonna happen.
Q. Okay. What did you think was going to happen when you say we knew something was gonna happen?
A. They take us to the court, you know.
Q. Who was going to take you to court?
A. The group, Dmytro and Zula. They claim that they are the trustee.
Q. So sometime after August 29th, but before September 18th, 2015, did you learn that the congregation had taken action to remove you and Traian as trustees of the church?
A. Yeah. We receive a letter.
Q. Well, the letter you're talking about, what did that letter say that you recall?
A. What?
Q. What do you recall the letter saying?
A. The letter?
Q. Yeah.
A. They send a letter to the three – these three elder committee, that because they close the church, and we received the first letter and they said send the second one that we are not no more member of this, like we are punished. We are not trustee anymore, they take us down.
Q. So there was a letter that you received first. Is that the letter that said there was going to be a meeting regarding closing the church?
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. And then there was a second letter that said: this is from the elder committee, that said action was taken and you've been removed as trustees of the church and there are new trustees?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you had those letters before you met with the lawyer Monica Russell; is that correct?
A. That's correct.

To: ACCN ELDERS
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Q. So when you met with Monica Russell, it was your --
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Mr. Kraus, can you clarify which time you're talking about when he met with me? He said he met with me in September, but he also said he met
with me before. So are you referring to the first or the second time?
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Before you met with the lawyer you already knew that the congregation had taken action to remove you and Traian as trustees, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. All right. So when you went – the first time you met with the lawyer regarding the church, you already knew that the congregation had voted to remove you and Traian as trustees, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. And --
MS. RUSSELL: Do you think we can have a little break? I'd like to get a drink of water.
MR. KRAUS: I think we have bottled water right behind you.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay. Well, let's take a quick break.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Listen. Just so you understand, and I'd like this on the record, when we take breaks this is not an opportunity to get information on how to answer questions. You understand that you'll still be affirmed to tell the truth when you come back.
A. Okay.
Q. Thank you.
(Thereupon, there was a brief recess.)
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Mr. Stefan, up until we just took this short break, when you didn't understand questions you brought it to my attention; is that correct?
A. No. Not all.
Q. Not always?
A. Not all of them.
Q. Are you saying that you've answered questions that you didn't understand?
A. I don't -- I --
Q. Several times I've asked you throughout this deposition that if I ask a question and you don't understand it, you should bring it to my attention. You said you would do that. You have done that; haven't you?
A. Yes.
Q. And you'll continue to do that if I ask a question that you don't understand, you're going to tell me you don't understand so I can rephrase it?
A. Right.
Q. Do you have a question? Were you going to say something?
A. No.
Q. Can you tell me, by the way, who is Rosina Stefan?
A. That's my daughter-in-law.
Q. Your daughter-in-law?
A. Right.
Q. Is that Dorel's wife?
A. Yes.
Q. And Katica is your wife, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And who is John Stefan?
A. That's my other son.
Q. And who is Moses Magda?
A. That's the preacher from the Nazarene Congregation Cleveland.
Q. What do you -- what does Moses Magda have as far as knowledge to this lawsuit? I'm asking this because I asked in my interrogatories
who has knowledge of the allegations, the things that we've claimed in the complaint, and one of the names is Moses Magda. What is your understanding as to what Moses Magda knows about the allegations in the lawsuit; what does he know?
A. He know that we're in a process with the court, you know.

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Q. Okay. He knows that there's a court action? Does he know about what's led up to being in court? Do you have knowledge of that?
A. No.
Q. How about Joe Craciun? Who is Joe Craciun? Is that how you pronounce his name, by the way, Craciun?
A. Craciun.
Q. Craciun, that's spelled C-R-A-C-I-U-N?
A. Yeah. Craciun.
Q. Craciun. What does Joe Craciun know about this lawsuit, because his name is also listedas having knowledge. What does he know about this lawsuit?
A. Same thing as Moses Magda know. He's a preacher in Florida in Romanian Church.
Q. Has he been up to Cleveland to Columbia Station to preach?
A. Yes.
Q. When was the last time Mr. Craciun Craciun -- if I get it wrong -- came to Columbia Station to preach?
A. Around two years ago.
Q. Okay. And have you had recent conversations with Mr. Craciun? Have you had recent conversations with him? Do you call him on the phone in Florida?
A. We've been friends with him for 20 4 years. We -- I call him, he call me, almost every week like this we talking.
Q. Was he ever a member of Columbia Station?
A. No.
Q. Have you discussed with him this lawsuit?
A. Yeah.
Q. Have you talked to him about this?
A. Yes.
Q. And what do you talk about? What does he say to you?
A. He don't say much, just told me be careful.
Q. You just talk to him more for support, that sort -- those type of conversations?
A. No. Not at all.
Q. What type of conversations do you have regarding this lawsuit with Mr. Craciun?
A. Like I said, we talk all the time. We talk about family. We talk about not too much of this.
Q. Okay.
A. Not about the law.
Q. Okay. Do you know if this gentleman in Florida talks to Traian Mohan?
A. I no understand.
Q. Does he speak to Traian?
A. Craciun?
Q. Yeah, Craciun. Does he talk to Traian?
A. I don't think so. No.
Q. Okay. How about -- and, again, I – my pronunciation probably isn't very good, Matei Augustinov?
A. Matei Augustinov.
Q. I'm sorry. Can you tell me his last name again?
A. Augustinov.
Q. Augustinov?
A. Yeah, "v" on the end.
Q. Augustinov. And what does that gentleman know about this case? He lives in Florida, also, right? That man, Matei, lives in Florida; is that correct?
A. Right.
Q. Was he a member of the Columbia Station Church?
A. No.
Q. And what does he know about this case? Do you talk to him?
A. Yes.
Q. Is he just a friend?
A. No. He call me.

To: ACCN ELDERS
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Q. Is he a friend of yours?
A. He's an elder.
Q. He's an elder.
A. He's an elder.
Q. He's an elder of --
A. The church.
Q. He's not an elder of the church at Columbia Station, is he?
A. No.
Q. Where is he an elder?
A. California.
Q. And is he somebody you've known for a long time? Have you known him a long time?
A. Probably 10 years.
Q. Okay. And Matei's first name, is that spelled M-A-T-E-I? I'm just doing that for the court reporter. Is that how he spells his name?
A. I don't know how to spell it.
Q. Okay. So he's an elder in California -- from California.
A. From California.
Q. So he currently lives in Florida; is that correct? He lives in Florida now, right? Does he live in Florida or California?
A. No, no.
Q. Where does he -- oh, he lives in Mondale, California?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And he's an elder of a church out in California?
A. Correct.
Q. And that's another Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene Church? Correct.
Q. Why do you talk to him? Why does he call you?
A. He call me.
Q. Okay. Why?
A. He call me to open the church.
Q. Okay. When did he call you about opening the church?
A. I'm not for sure, about September. Probably September 5, 6.
Q. Okay.
A. I'm not so sure.
Q. Okay. I don't need the exact date, but you think it was somewhere around September 5th,2015?
A. Yeah.
Q. So sometime in -- around September 5th, 2015, you had conversations with Matei Augustinov regarding the closing of the church in Columbia Station; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Tell me about that conversation, what did he say, what did you say? What do you remember of that conversation?
A. He ask me to open the church.
Q. What did you say?
A. I said I cannot open by myself. We three, we have to talk together.
Q. Okay. And did you have any more conversations with this gentleman regarding opening the church?
A. I said no, that's it, and we're not going to open.
Q. Since coming to the United States what churches have you belonged to?
A. Say again.
Q. When you came to the United States, did you join a church?
A. Yes.
Q. Which church did you first join?
A. I went Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene in Cleveland.
Q. So you came to Cleveland I think you said sometime in 1969, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And when you came here you joined the Nazarene Church

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Q. All right. So maybe in the early 1970s you start attending the Nazarene Church in Cleveland; is that correct?
A. I started like 1971. I get baptized in '76, yes.
Q. All right. So you start attending services in 1971 or thereabout at a Nazarene Cleveland Congregation. Were you a member then, if you attended services? Would that make you a member of that church?
A. Which one?
Q. Cleveland Nazarene, the one you started going to sometime in 1971.
A. Yeah. I was like for a few months only. I was baptized as a Romanian brother from Yugoslavia. We decide to walk out and we went to the -- and rent.
Q. I'm not asking about what happened later. I'm just talking about when you first started attending services at the Cleveland Nazarene Church sometime in the early 1970s, maybe 1971.
Were you a member at that time? Did that make you a member that you were attending services?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you pay dues? Did you pay dues to that church?
A. You don't pay dues until you're -- until you're a baptized member.
Q. All right. So that's what I was trying
to understand. You can attend -- you were attending services in the early '70s at the Cleveland Nazarene Church, correct? Correct?
A. Correct.
Q. But you were baptized in that church sometime in 1976, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Would you agree that being baptized in the church is a requirement of being a member of the church?
A. Correct.
Q. So in 1976 you were baptized in the church and you're now a member of the Cleveland Nazarene Church because of that baptismal, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And -- but in 1977 you left that Cleveland Nazarene Church; is that correct? You left the Cleveland Nazarene Church where you were baptized.
A. No. Apostolic Christian Church, I left.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. Apostolic Christian Church, we left. Not Nazarene.
Q. The church that you were baptized in in 1976, you left that church, correct?
A. Correct.

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Q. You left with a number of other people; is that correct? A number of members left that church.
A. Yeah.
Q. Is that correct?
A. They have a church, you know. We build our church.
Q. So when you left the church that you were baptized in in 1976, why did you leave that church?
A. Because a lot was Romanian; Romanian, some Europe, so we wanted to keep the faith like Europe, you know, Nazarene.
Q. So because there were in the church that you were baptized in in 1976, it wasn't just Romanians at that -
A. No.
Q. -- church; was it?
A. No.
Q. There were people from Serbia, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Croatia?
A. No.
Q. Russians? Were there any Russians in that group?
A. There was German, Hungary -- Hungarian, German.
Q. Okay.
A. Romanian and English.
Q. But the group of Romanian members decide to leave because you were going to form another church?
A. Right.
Q. Is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. All right. And who was in that original group of people that you recall that left the church that you were baptized in?
A. I can't recall every one. I can recall few of them.
Q. Okay.
A. I can say Magda Sava was the preacher.
Q. Say that again.
A. Magda Sava.
Q. Okay. Can you try to spell that last name for me, or you can't?
A. It's father of Moses Magda.
Q. Oh, Moses Magda was part of that group?
A. Yeah, was -- he was there, too.
Q. Okay. Who else?
A. Then Paul Oldja.
Q. Oldja?
A. Yeah.
Q. Is that Petru Oldja?
A. Yeah. He was out. Yeah. Not the -- the other one, father. His father.
Q. His father.
A. His father.
Q. Petru Oldja's father --
A. Father.
Q. -- was part of the group that leaves the Romanians who leave to form their own church -
A. Right.
Q. -- is that right?
A. Right.
Q. Okay.
A. There was Paul, Traian, Magda, and Paul Oldja. There was a minister, a preacher, and a Romanian. And we talk together that we got to build our church as Romanian Nazarene Christian Church.
Q. And certainly at that time it was important to you that it be a group of Romanians.
A. Because I don't speak English. I know very little.
Q. Okay. So where did the -- this group of people establish the new church after you left in 1977?
A. Repeat the question.
Q. Where did you -- where did the group of
people, the Romanians who left the Cleveland Congregation in 1977, where did you establish your new church?
A. First, we been in the rent. We rent YMCA.
Q. Okay.
A. Then we go and rent again, some school.
Q. Okay.
A. Until we find a place. We bought a building, like on top of apartment and down. We do like a church and make it on 105 Cleveland, West 105.
Q. West 105th. The group bought a building and that's for the church?
A. They --
Q. And what's the name of that church?
A. Nazarene Congregation – Romanian Nazarene Congregation.
Q. All right. So in -- so 1977, you form a new group called the Romanian Nazarene Congregation, correct?
A. Correct.

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Q. But for a period of time that congregation rents various buildings to meet and conduct services; is that correct? Right?
A. Right.
Q. You have to say yes or no.
A. Yes.
Q. And then you bought -- when I say you, the Romanian Nazarene Congregation bought a 21 building on West 105th Street in Cleveland, Ohio; is that correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Is that correct?
A. Right.
Q. So then what year would you have bought the property where the Nazarene -- the Romanian Nazarene Congregation have bought the property in Cleveland?
A. Repeat the question.
Q. Sure. What year did the Romanian Nazarene Congregation buy the property at West 105th Street in Cleveland, Ohio?
A. '77 or '78, around there.
Q. Okay. After becoming a member -- well, first of all, how do you become a member of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation?
A. Which one?
Q. The one that you left in 1977, the Cleveland Church, you form the Romanian Nazarene Congregation, bought a building sometime in 1977,1978. How did you become a member of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation?
A. We bought it together, automatically members.
Q. Okay. Did you have to be baptized again in the church?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And did there come a -- what was the next church that you belonged to after the Romanian Nazarene Congregation?
A. Repeat again.
Q. Did there come a time -- I'll rephrase it. Did there come a time when you left the Romanian Nazarene Congregation?
A. Yes.
Q. And where did you go to -- what church did you go to next?
A. We don't left the church until we finish. We buy the lot on Columbia Station.
Q. Okay.
A. And us, seven family, we decide to go from Cleveland Nazarene Congregation because it was bad neighborhood, and we see the future, and we find a lot, and we buy the lot in Columbia Station. And we tell the brothers over there that we going to go and build. And they don't say this. And it's fine. Yeah.
Q. Okay. So you left the Romanian Nazarene Congregation with a group of people. You bought a lot in Columbia Station to form a new Nazarene Church; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay.
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Deposition
Exhibit 1 to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN was marked for identification.)
MR. KRAUS: Do you have your -
MS. RUSSELL: I'd like to take a look.
MR. KRAUS: Well, I'm going to give it to you. Do you have your
Bates stamped --
MS. RUSSELL: No. 10
MR. KRAUS: -- records with you?
MS. RUSSELL: No.
MR. KRAUS: Why don't we make a copy of that because most of the documents I'm going to use are from that. If there are documents that
aren't in that group, we'll make copies of those, too. Make sense to you?
MS. RUSSELL: I'm not entirely clear.
MR. KRAUS: Well, I think I said that I'd copy out, you know, the --
MS. RUSSELL: The whole thing?
MR. KRAUS: Yeah.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay.
MR. KRAUS: I don't care. All right. Why don't we take a short break. I'll make a copy of that. (Thereupon, there was a brief recess.)
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. I'm going to hand you what's just been marked as Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 1. Can you look at that for me, please? Have you seen that document before? Do you know what that document is?
A. That's what I got from the church.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. They give it to me from Cleveland Romanian Church-Nazarene, the copy.
Q. So what is this document? What does it show, as far as you know? Just -- what does this show? Do you know what this document is?
A. No.
Q. You've seen it before? Is your name on this document, Number 1, Depo Exhibit Number 1?
A. The names?
Q. Yeah. Is that -- is your name on here?
A. Yes.
Q. That's --
A. Right here (indicating). The second to the left.
Q. Okay. It says -- after number eight, is that --
A. That's --
Q. -- your name and your wife's name?
A. Yeah. Another one is Stefan.
Q. Okay. And is this a document that shows that you left the Romanian Nazarene Congregation in 1987?
A. Correct.
Q. And, by the way, when you were a member of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation, after you were baptized sometime in 1976, were you ever a trustee of that church?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever a treasurer or secretary?
A. No.

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Q. Do you know who the trustees were at that church at the time you were baptized? Were there trustees of that church, the Romanian Nazarene Congregation?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And who do you recall being the trustees of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation?
A. George Oldja. I'm not so sure, but I know George Oldja.
Q. Okay. And was George Oldja -
A. And I think there was -- there was Magda.
Q. Moses Magda?
A. No. The other one, father.
Q. Father Magda.
A. Father Magda.
Q. Who else do you recall being trustees of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation besides George Oldja and Father Magda?
A. Pavel Oldja. Pavel.
Q. Say his first name again.
A. Pavel Oldja.
Q. Pava?
A. Pavel, yeah.
Q. Pavel.
A. Oldja.
Q. Oldja. And who else do you recall being a minister -- or trustees? I'm sorry. Those are the ones you recall being a --
A. That's what I remember. That's a long time.
Q. Okay. And there may have been others over the years, but you just don't recall? Other trustees?
A. Say it again.
Q. You told me that you recalled George Oldja, Father Magda, and Pavel Oldja being trustees of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation, but is it fair to say there may have been others, you just don't recall at this time because it's many years ago?
A. I know Jon Patrutz was the treasurer, not the trustee. I don't know if he was a trustee, but the treasurer.
Q. Okay.
A. That's what I remember.
Q. What do you -- how did George Oldja become a trustee of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation?
A. I don't know.
Q. Was there an election held to make George Oldja a trustee? Is that how trustees were made, by election?
A. Yes.
Q. And when there was an election to establish a trustee, the members of the church would vote in that election; is that correct?
A. That's correct.


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Q. And when I say members of the church, these are individuals who had been baptized in the church and attend services, correct? Those are the people who are able to vote.
A. Correct.
Q. And, by the way, I think you mentioned Jon Patrutz who had been a -- you recall him being a treasurer, which is an officer at the church. Would you also agree that treasurers were elected by members of the congregation, correct?
A. Yes. The members, yeah.
Q. You elect treasurers also?
A. Absolutely.
Q. Do you know if there are any written rules in the Romanian Nazarene Congregation that describes that trustees and treasurers will be elected by the congregation, or is that just something that you just always did?
A. The rule?
Q. Is there any written rules in the Romanian Nazarene Congregation that elections would be held to appoint trustees and treasurers, or is that just something that was always done at the church?
A. You elect one again. If somebody like step down or if he don't want no more, then we name it, you know?
Q. Okay.
A. Some -- you have to agree, you know, something.
Q. There has to be an election?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you know if there are any written rules that said this is how we will proceed, that we have to have elections? That's just what you guys did, right?
A. Yeah. No, no, no.
Q. You would have a meeting when it was necessary to appoint trustees because maybe someone is leaving or someone didn't want to do the job anymore; is that a fair statement?
A. Right.
Q. And that's how treasurers were elected also in the Romanian Nazarene Congregation, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. When you guys -- when I say you guys, on Exhibit 1 is that the list of the families who decided to leave the Romanian Nazarene Congregation in 1987?
A. That's not all of them.
Q. That's not all of them?
A. No. Only seven from here.
Q. Okay. But there were more people who left at that time?
A. No. More people, this one over here(indicating) Mindria, right here (indicating). See, he don't sign.
Q. Okay.
A. We have to put money down to buy the lot. When he don't sign, he go back to English Church --
Q. Okay.
A. -- where I left.
Q. And I see there's a -- because it says after -- say his name again, Mindria? Mindria?
A. Mindria. Yeah.
Q. Mindria.
A. Mindria. Steve Mindria.
Q. And it says here that he's not a member of this church, that's what's after --
A. Yeah. He don't want to sign. See this(indicating)? No sign.
Q. Okay. And that's number four?
A. He go back.
Q. Okay. And that's number four on Exhibit 4 1; is that correct? That's the list of names that go one through nine, he's number four.
A. Yeah. He's number four.
Q. And he decided that he was just going to go --
A. Yeah, he decided to go back.

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Q. And then there's also -- I'm trying to see. Is this after Popou --
A. Niagu?
Q. There's another, I'm not sure if it's seven or eight, it says "not members of this church". Do you see that after number seven and eight down here (indicating)? It says "not members of this church". Do you see that?
A. Yeah, but he was that time with us, Popou Laza.
Q. Yeah.
A. He was in the --
Q. And you're saying that there may have been more people who left the Romanian Nazarene Congregation to form the Columbia Station Church that don't appear on this list?
A. That's over here.
Q. Okay. There's more people?
A. No more. This is the list.
Q. This is the list?
A. This is the group that went back.
Q. And according to this document, this group received money from the church, the Romanian Nazarene Congregation, to buy the lot for the Columbia Station Church; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. How much money did they give you; do you remember?
A. Probably we have like close to $40,000. I'm not so sure, but we divide. So each member, he get so much
Q. Okay. Do you think the total amount -
A. Maybe close to 15 thousand -- 14 -- 14, 15 thousand
Q. All right.
A. That's all we get. No building. Building was remainder build.
Q. Was there bad feelings between the people, the members who were leaving the Romanian Nazarene Congregation and -- the people who were leaving, any bad feelings? Were people angry?
A. No. Because we think that one day they might move because of bad neighborhood. They come because we build the church new and we have parking and everything.
Q. Okay. So would it be fair to say that the decision to buy a lot, build a church, was not a religious decision, it was just something that the group of people on Deposition Number 1 decided to do because you thought it was a better location, nicer future, that sort of thing?
A. It's good for our children, for our grandchild, for future. That's what we build, future.
Q. All right. Now, it's my understanding that you claim in 1987 you found the vacant land for sale at 239295 [sic] Royalton Road. Is that still your claim, that you were the one who found the lot?
A. Absolutely.
Q. And we can certainly agree that 239295[sic] is the current address of the Columbia Station Church; is that right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yes?
A. Yes.
Q. You have to speak up. Is it your position because you claim that you found the vacant land that became the location of the church that you have more rights than other church members who were not involved in finding the vacant land? Do you think you have more rights because you found the vacant land than other members of the church?
A. No.

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Q. It's my understanding that you claim that you helped build the church, and when I say build the church, that you actually did some construction on the Columbia Station Church; is that right?
A. Right.
Q. What kind of work did you do? When you were building the church, what did you do, construction wise?
A. You know, I lay blocks, bricks, wood, shingle, until it was done. All kinds of job.
Q. By the way, was there a dispute about the quality of the construction work that you did? Did somebody complain about the work that you did at that church, the construction work?
A. Complain, what?
Q. That you didn't do a good job. Did anyone accuse you of not doing a good job when you were building the church at Columbia Station?
A. That's not true.
Q. Not true.
A. That's not true.
Q. No one said that -- there was no dispute that the -- for example, that the bricks that you had put down on one of the walls, that it was not of a good quality, it had to be taken down and redone; do you remember that happening?
A. Can I explain?
Q. Well, I'm just asking you to answer the question.
A. Yes, yes.
Q. That did happen?
A. Yes.
Q. So you -- so I understand, I'm going to let you explain, but I understand that you helped construct a wall that had to be taken down; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And when that happened -- well, first of all, why did it have to be taken down? You tell me.
A. Because they want to do it different way.
Q. Who wanted to do it a different way?
A. There was another -- Papou Patrutz, that was my cousin. He was not a -- he was not member in our church, in Columbia Station that we build. And he was a bricklayer. Me and him, we build.
Q. So he was a bricklayer helping you build the church?
A. Absolutely.
Q. But he wasn't a member of the --
A. No.
Q. -- Columbia Station Church.
A. He no have no right to do this or do this.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 17:44

4725 views
Q. Okay. But you two that did this Mr. Patrutz and you, have a disagreement about the wall that you built?
A. Yeah.
Q. What was the disagreement?
A. Because he wants to do something fancy, different way. And we said, we are very poor people. We have no money. And I said we cannot do it.
Q. And then what happened?
A. And then we did it the same I start. And -- he was amazed by this.
Q. I don't understand. Was the wall taken down?
A. And we build it the same way I start the building, that was -- it was this high, like this (indicating).
Q. Just answer the question. The wall that you and Mr. Patrutz were talking about, the one that you were laying brick on --
A. Uh-huh.
Q. -- did it -- was it taken down? Was it dismantled?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And when that happened, did it make you angry?
A. No.
Q. You didn't think that that was a problem?
A. No.
Q. Okay.
A. We fix the problem.
Q. What was the problem?
A. That was the problem, like I told you, probably -- they wanted different, fancy, you know, round arch and things like that, you know. It's more money. And we call Mike Baumann, that was our elder, and we not agree like this. We going to build a Nazarene Church simple, not fancy. And the others don't want, and we go on. We build the same wall I start. Same wall.
Q. You mentioned Mike Baumann. Who's Mike Baumann?
A. He was our elder.
Q. Can you just explain to me, was he a member of the Columbia Station Church, Mike Baumann?
A. No.
Q. He's an elder --
A. Only --
Q. -- in the Nazarene Congregation, right?
A. Absolutely, right.
Q. So if he's a member, he's a member of some other Nazarene Church; is that right?
A. Mansfield.
Q. Mansfield. Okay. Tell me how – what is the relationship between a Nazarene Church, like Columbia Station and elders? How does that work? What role do the elders play, in your opinion? What do the elders do?
A. They do the job, baptism and weddings, when the church call them. That's the job is.
Q. Okay. So are these elders that the Columbia Station select to be elders, or how do you become an elder in the Nazarene Church?
A. We vote.
Q. Okay. Members vote to appoint --
A. Members vote and select the elder.
Q. And are elders traditionally from other churches or from within your church? Are the elders elected -- the elders that you elect to be elders, are they from your church, or are they from another church?
A. No. The first one was from Mansfield.

To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 17:49

4724 views
Q. Okay. And, again, the way that elder was -- the way he got his position of elder, that was by vote by the Columbia Station Church Congregation; Is that true?
A. They do the job only in our church, but he was elder before. Mansfield put him elder in Mansfield.
Q. Okay. How many elders -- what role does an elder play in the church? You said that they perform weddings; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. They do baptisms –
A. They do baptisms.
Q. -- correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. What else do they do?
A. If we have some problem, the church, the minister got to call them, we have a problem in the church. And he's got to work with the church.
Q. So he kind of -- he's a person that helps settle disputes in addition to performing certain ceremonies like weddings?
A. Right.
Q. And baptisms?
A. Right.
Q. Correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Now, there are ministers also. There are ministers in the church; is that correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. They're different than elders?
A. Oh, yeah. Yes.
Q. Well, tell me what -- who -- what does a minister do in the Nazarene Church?
A. They preach the Word of God.
Q. Okay. Do they lead services, the minister? Do they lead the service for the church, the minister? What does the minister do? You said he praises -- he preaches the Word of God, correct? Is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. Tell me what a minister does at the church. You say he preaches the Word of God.
How does he do that? Does he run the service?
A. Yes.
Q. Does he have more rights than other members of the church?
A. No.
Q. And is it true that you become a minister of the church by election?
A. That's true.
Q. All right. So -- and at the Columbia Station Church there have been several ministers between 1989 and today, correct? Is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. So -- and every time the -- a minister -- and a minister can just say, I don't want to be minister anymore; is that correct? Right? They say I don't want the job anymore?
A. Or they leave.
Q. Or they leave.
A. Or they leave.
Q. Okay. And when they have to be replaced there's a meeting, and an election takes place to elect the new minister.
A. Find somebody else, yes.
Q. Okay. Has anyone ever been removed as a minister, someone who didn't -- who had to be like -- said you can't be the minister anymore? Has that ever happened at Columbia Station?
A. They have a punishment.
Q. There's been punishment?
A. Right.
Q. Explain to me what punishment means. What -- how does that work?
A. If you do something that's a sin, you have to confess. This is rule Nazarene Congregation, that's order. And you have to come before the church and tell the church what you did. And the church decide, not the elder, what kind of punish this brother or sister deserve. What kind of sin he did. How big, how small. They have a sin to death, and they said that we have a sin that can be repent. You're sorry, you be punished. I cannot -- one year, or three months, or whatever it is. And you be restored back to before.
Q. Okay. Has there been ministers who've been removed from their position as ministers as punishment at the Columbia Station Church?
A. It was, but he was not accepted.
Q. Well, first of all, who was removed as minister of the church?
A. Jon Patrutz.
Q. Jon Patrutz. Why was he removed as the minister of the church?
A. Because he not agree with the elder what they want. They want to bring more, you know, like -- I don't know if I say -- in 2003, elder meeting took -- come in our church to have the meeting, and Columbia Station as a church, we refuse.
Q. You refused what?
A. The elder, not to come.
Q. Okay. So in 2003 the elder committee, these are the --
A. Not committee, the elders. The elders, they have a meeting every year, you know.
Q. The elders of the Nazarene Church have a meeting.
A. Yeah.
Q. From different Nazarene Congregations.
A. For different -- yeah.
Q. Yeah. They wanted to have a meeting --
A. In our church.
Q. -- at Columbia Station? Columbia Station said no, we don't have to have --
A. No.

To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 17:54

4722 views
Q. -- it, correct?
A. Yeah, because they don't – they don't -- they don't believe we are believe. They, some of them, you know, they believe that no sin to death and --
Q. Okay. So in 2003 Columbia Station said, we don't want the elders meeting at our church, correct?
A. Right.
Q. Now, let's talk about Jon Patrutz because I was asking about ministers and if ministers could get removed from their position. Was Jon Patrutz a minister at Columbia Station?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember when he was a minister? Would he have been there in 2003?
A. He was minister in the Cleveland Romanian Congregation.
Q. And was he removed because he decided he didn't want to be a minister anymore?
A. No.
Q. Who removed him as minister?
A. Dave Nicholson. He was another elder.
Q. And Mr. Nicholson, at the time he removed -- Jon Patrutz was removed as the minister, was David Nicholson a member of Columbia Station --
A. No.
Q. -- and an elder?
A. No. As an elder, yeah.
Q. Had he -- has he ever been a member of Columbia Station?
A. No.
Q. Never.
A. Never.
Q. So we have ministers, and we have elders, and there are trustees, and there are treasurers and secretaries in the Nazarene Church; is that correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And it's your understanding that those positions are done by election by the members of the congregation; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Do you know when the Columbia Station Church was opened?
A. What year?
Q. Yeah.
A. '89.
Q. Okay. Do you claim because you helped construct the church that you have more rights than other church members who did not participate in the building of the church?
A. I don't have no more rights than those over here (indicating).
Q. Okay. Do you have more rights than people who became members of the church after it was opened in 1989?
A. That's what they confessed because they said I don't do nothing over here. They don't put no penny, not even glass of water. And they come to take away from those people who work hard.
Q. After the church was opened in 1989 -- well, first of all, do you claim -- is it your position, your belief, that because you helped construct that church that you have more rights than other church members at Columbia Station -
A. No.
Q. -- who did not participate in the building of the church?
A. No.
Q. You agree you didn't build the church by yourself, there were other people that worked on the church?
A. That help us, yeah.
Q. There were many people who helped build that church, correct?
A. They come in spare time, like Saturday, but we are -- these people here, six or seven, every day, afternoon after work.
MS. RUSSELL: Can the record reflect that he is pointing with his fingers --
MR. KRAUS: Sure.
MS. RUSSELL: -- to Plaintiff's Exhibit 1?
MR. KRAUS: I think that's fair enough.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. So when you say these people who came every day to help build the church -
A. Yes.
Q. -- you're referring to the people listed
on Deponent's Exhibit 1, correct? These people that are on this -
A. Right.
Q. -- exhibit, right? But you don't – is it your position that you and these people have more rights than other members of the church who joined the church later because you were part of the original people who built it?
A. More rights?
Q. Yeah.
A. The people who come help us?
Q. Yeah.
A. No.
Q. Okay. By the way, do you believe that having possession of the original blueprints for the church and the original deed and title
insurance for the church gives you more legal rights or greater say in church matters than other members of the church?
A. Say it again.
Q. Do you believe that having possession of the original blueprints of the church -- well, first of all, do you have the original blueprints of the church?
A. I have.
Q. Okay. And do you -- do you also have the original deed?
A. I have.
Q. And the title insurance, you have the original title insurance --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- correct? Do you think having possession, the fact that you actually have those documents, gives you more legal rights or a greater say in Columbia Station Church matters than other members of the church?
A. As a trustee?
Q. Not as a trustee, just having those documents, does it give you any more rights having those documents?
A. Yes.

To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jun 2019 17:59

4721 views
Q. Why? Why do you think you have more rights than other members of the church because you have the original blueprints, the deed, and title insurance? Why does that give you more rights, Mr.Stefan?
A. Because they cannot change the faith, the faith of Nazarene.
Q. I'm not asking you about faith. I'm just asking you this question, you've told me you believe because you have the original blueprints for the church, the original deed, and title insurance that you have more legal rights or a greater say in church matters than other members of the church. Why do you say that? Why do you have more legal rights?
A. Because I'm the trustee. I'm the one who build it.
Q. Well, that's two different things. Do you think you have more rights because you built the church?
A. No, because they select me as a trustee.
Q. So the fact that you have blueprints and the original deed and title insurance -
A. No.
Q. -- that doesn't give you any more rights; does it?
A. No. Not because that, no.
Q. All right.
A. I think because they more trust me, they gave it to me more. You are the one founder, and the last one.
Q. Did there come a time when you left the church and attended another congregation?
A. Yeah. I -- yeah. Yes.
Q. So when did you leave Columbia Station?
A. When?
Q. Yeah. When?
A. '90.
Q. So that'd be shortly after the church was completed, which you say was 1989, you leave Columbia Station; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Would it be fair to say you're not a member of Columbia Station when you go to another church?
A. I go back to the original one. I always a member over at Nazarene Congregation, always.
Q. All right. So which church did you go back to?
A. Back to Romanian.
Q. So you went to the Romanian Nazarene Congregation –
A. Right.
Q. -- Church; is that correct?
A. Right.
Q. And you were a member of that church in 1990, correct? Is that correct? You became -- you went back to be a member of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation in 1990.
A. Romanian in Cleveland.
Q. Is that true?
A. Yeah.
Q. And when you went back to the Romanian Cleveland Nazarene Congregation in Cleveland, that's where you would attend services, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that right? Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you pay dues --
A. Yes.
Q. -- to the Romanian -
A. Yes.
Q. -- Congregation Church?
A. Yes.
Q. And were you ever a trustee of the Romanian Nazarene Congregation?
A. No.
Q. Did you -- were you ever a treasurer or a secretary?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever a minister?
A. No.

TO BE CONTINUED...

new to this
Canada
16 Jun 2019 5:27

4666 views
I don't know this gentleman Stefan or his family Dorel but it sounds like he was part of the original plan to build this new church, then for whatever reason he decided he wasn't going to be part of it anymore and left to go back to his old church. The church for whatever reason later fell apart, he returned and somehow gained a controlling interest again including the title and deed of this property with the authority to sell it? And now is he being sued by one or more of the other stake holders including their estate beneficiaries? Very odd. He must have been on title to this property for all the years he was no longer there or is he representing others' interests? Unusual to say the least. Will be interested to see what happens.


Ownership
USA
16 Jun 2019 10:05

4645 views
To Canada, welcome to this website and thank you for taking the time to read Petar Stefan's deposition.

Clarification, Peter Stefan and Doral Stefan names were never on the church property title or anybody else for that matter.

The church title was presented to the website readers back in 2016

The original owners were the members of Apostolic christian church nazarene Inc of Columbia Station Ohio.



To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 14:54

4612 views
Q. Were you -- so in 1990, shortly after the Columbia Station Church is open, you leave with your family --
A. Yes.
Q. -- to go back to the Romanian Nazarene -
A. Yes.
Q. -- Congregation Cleveland, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You have to wait until I finish the question. All right. Fair enough?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Who else left with you at that time in 1990?
A. Mohan.
Q. Traian left?
A. He left and George Stefan left.
Q. Okay.
A. And John Stefan left. The four of them left.
Q. And Dorel, he also left Columbia Station at that time, your son, Dorel.
A. Yeah, he was not baptized at that time.
Q. So he had not been baptized at --
A. Not baptized.
Q. -- Columbia Station?
A. Yeah. No.
Q. Okay. So you're telling me that you and some other families --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- including Traian Mohan --
A. Including Mohan.
Q. -- leaves Columbia Station --
A. Columbia --
Q. -- and goes back to the Romanian Nazarene Congregation Cleveland, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And how long did you stay a member at the Columbia -- the Romanian Nazarene Congregation of Cleveland?
A. I come back in '98.
Q. 1998. Okay. Why did you leave Columbia Station?
A. You want me to explain?
Q. I'm asking you why, yeah, explain.
A. When we finish the church in Columbia Station, same date, same Sunday, we went together to pick us --
Q. Excuse me. Do you want some water?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Go ahead.
A. Cleveland -- then Cleveland Church was burned. They burn up.
Q. Say that again.
A. Fire.
Q. They had a fire in --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- Cleveland?
A. Yeah. One I was baptize in.
Q. Okay.
A. Not the Romanian, but the -- where I was baptized in 1976.
Q. Okay.
A. The same Sunday, it come fire and was burned. And those members from Apostolic Christian Church, they all come to our church, Columbia Station, all the members. And then start arguments or disagreements because they want it more liberal, they want a bible class, they wanted this, they want to do this. And we say, no, no, no, no. And some of them, they left. Petar Miu left and moved to Florida. And we, us four, we went to Cleveland Church. And shortly that, you know, they say, we not going to pay your church. They says we going to go and rent. And they build a church in Brunswick Hills, and they still have today. And they don't take over the building
Q. Okay. So in 1990 there was a number of people who came to the church?
A. '89 and '90.
Q. '89, '90.
A. Yeah.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 15:02

4610 views
Q. There were a number of people who were members at the Nazarene Church in Cleveland, not the Romanian Nazarene Church, but the one that you --
A. The other one.
Q. -- got baptized in?
A. Absolutely.
Q. Then had a fire and they were taken in by Columbia Station?
A. Right.
Q. And there was disagreements regarding how the church is going to be run?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you, including Traian Mohan --
A. Including him.
Q. -- leave the church from Columbia Station Church; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you stay away for eight years.
A. Eight years. They call me back all the time. You got to come back because you build it. Come back. Even Elder Mike, Mike Baumann. I told him, it's not time to come.
Q. Okay. By the way, you're aware that the Columbia Station Church had to take out a mortgage and borrow money to finish the construction of the church, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And that mortgage was paid off while you were at the Romanian Nazarene Congregation Cleveland, correct? Correct?
A. Not all of -- some of, yeah.
Q. And you weren't paying dues to the Columbia Station Church for those eight years; were you?
A. No. I paid over there, yeah.
Q. Now, if I understand, with looking at all the documents, you refer to yourself as a church founder. What does that mean, you're a church founder? What does that mean that you're a church founder?
A. Like original, you know, like, you know, legal.
Q. Well, I'm just trying to understand because the term has been used in documents filed in court that you refer to yourself as a church founder. What does that mean? Does that mean anything?
A. It mean I'm the original one left, the founder.
Q. Okay. When you say original one left --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- what do you mean?
A. That mean the first one, we start to build this from the beginning. So only are my son, Dorel, those are two.
Q. Okay. So that's just something that you call yourself, there's no legal document that says you're a church founder, right?
A. No.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 15:03

4609 views
Q. When you refer to yourself as a church founder, do you claim you have more legal rights or a greater say in church matters than other members of the church who are not original founders?
A. Repeat again.
Q. Sure. When you refer to yourself as a church founder, do you claim you have more legal rights or a greater say in church matters than other members of the church who are not original founders? Do you think that gives you more say?
A. Probably going to have the last words to say. The last, you know, if -- like, I no say that I have more, but the last word, you know, say something. If you say something, no good.
Q. Are you saying last word, that you get the last word?
A. Yeah.
Q. Because you've been there --
A. You know, at least some respect.
Q. Do you claim that the group of people -- I'm sorry, if I asked this question -- that are listed in the Depo Exhibit 1, are these also church founders in your opinion, the people listed on this --?
A. Absolutely.
Q. -- Exhibit 1?
A. Absolutely.
Q. Okay. And do you claim -- do you claim the people who you say are church founders, did they pay for the land and the original money for building the church in Columbia Station? Did they pay the money?
A. Sure. Yes.
Q. But we agree that you know that the church had to take out a loan to finish construction after you left the church, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. So for the eight years that you're not6 there the congregation is paying down that loan as far as you know, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you claim the people who paid for the purchase of the vacant land and the building of the church have more legal rights or a greater say in church matters than other members of the church who did not pay for the vacant land or original construction costs?
A. Repeat.
Q. The people who you claim paid for the vacant land and the building of the church, do you think that -- which includes you.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you think any of those people, or you, have more legal rights or a greater say in church matters than other members of the church who didn't pay for the vacant land or the original construction costs?
A. I don't understand the question.
Q. Okay. That's -- I'll try to rephrase it.
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. Do you think people, members of the church who paid for the vacant land and the original construction costs of the church, have more legal rights or a greater say in church matters than people who did not pay that kind of money?
A. In my opinion, yes.
Q. Okay. And why do you think -- so let's talk about you. You think you have a greater say and more legal rights than other members of Columbia Station Church because you paid money originally for the vacant land and the construction of the church; is that correct?
A. I mean all of us was here. All of us was original ones.

To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 15:05

4608 views
Q. Okay. I'm asking you, do you think you have more legal rights than other members of the church because you gave money that bought the --you were one of several people who gave money to buy the vacant land and the original construction cost? Do you think you have more legal rights than other members because of that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And why do you think you have more rights than people who didn't do that, didn't pay for the original vacant land?
A. Because we the one who found it. And those were the ones who don't want to listen the way, you know, we build this church as Nazarene Congregation. We have the -- we have the right to say, hey, don't do this, don't paint this, you know, stop.
Q. Well, the decision as far as painting the church or buying insurance for the church, those types of matters are handled at church meetings, correct, where people vote? Those matters are handled at church meetings where members vote; is that correct?
A. What?
Q. On matters of -- you mentioned painting, that would be something that you would discuss at a meeting, a church meeting?
A. I don't know what --
MS. RUSSELL: If you don't recall.
A. I --
Q. I'm going to start over.
A. I don't --
Q. I just want to start over. I'm going to start over. You tell me that you have more rights and say in church matters than other members because you paid for -- you helped pay for the vacant land and construction costs of the church, correct?
A. Not -- I don't pay by myself.
Q. I understand that. Are you claiming that you have more legal rights and a greater say in church matters because you were one of several people who helped pay for the vacant lot and the original construction costs of the church?
A. What do you mean by original construction?
Q. You were one of several people who helped buy the vacant land, correct, for the Columbia Station Church, right? Correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You also -- did you contribute money for the original building of the church?
A. Yes.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 15:07

4607 views
Q. Okay. And because you gave money that went towards the purchase of the vacant land and the construction of the church, do you think this gives you more rights and a greater say in church matters than other members who didn't participate in buying the vacant land and paying for the building of the church?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there a document that says you have more rights than other members, something in paper that says you get more rights?
A. No, but I have the blueprint. I have the -- I have the deed.
Q. When I asked you earlier if you felt having possession of those documents gave you more legal rights or a greater say in church matters, you said no. Are you changing your answer?
A. No. I don't change the answer, but I don't understand what you say all the time, you know?
Q. Okay.
A. Now, construction, money, you know?
Q. So if you don't understand a question, tell me, I'm going to rephrase it. Because a short time ago I asked you about the blueprints, the deed, and the title insurance. I asked you if you think having possession of those documents gave you more legal rights or a greater say in church matters than other members of the church, and your answer was no. Do you remember me asking that question and you giving that answer?
A. Yes, I remember.
Q. You're not changing that answer; are you?
A. Well, I don't understand the question, that’s why.
Q. Do you understand the question now?
A. Yes.
Q. Is your answer no to that question? Do you --
A. Yeah.
Q. So having the possession of those documents doesn't give you any greater rights or more votes at the church; does it?
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Kraus, just to clarify, can you go through each document, perhaps that would help? For example, just separate it out between the deed and the blueprints and the title insurance.
MR. KRAUS: I think he's already answered that question.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. So let me ask you this question, If you don't understand, I'm going to rephrase it, so I want to make sure you understand. You were one of several people who helped pay for the vacant land at Columbia Station for the church, correct?
A. Correct.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 15:10

4603 views
Q. Do you think because you gave money towards the purchase of that vacant land you have a greater say in how the church be run or more legal rights than other people who are members of the church who didn't pay money for the vacant land?
MS. RUSSELL: Do you understand the question? Do you understand the question he's asking?
Q. You're nodding your head yes. Do you understand my question?
A. I'm going to say no.
Q. What don't you understand about that question?
A. Huh?
Q. What don't you understand?
A. What I don't understand?
Q. Yeah. You say you don't understand, what is it that you don't understand? Are there words I've used that you don't understand?
A. Because you say that lot and construction, you know, put together, you know.
Q. Now I've broken it up. I'm asking now, just giving money to buy the vacant land and the construction of the church -- let me rephrase this. Dimetri P is in the room with us this morning, correct? Dimetri P, he's in the room with us?
A. Yes.
Q. He's sitting right next to you, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You'd agree that he's a member of the Columbia Station Church, right?
A. Right.
Q. He was baptized in the church, correct?
A. No, in Ukraine.
Q. Okay. He was baptized in Ukraine, but he was a member of Columbia Station, correct?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. But he became a member after 1998, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And certainly he was not someone who contributed towards the purchase of the vacant land or the construction of the church back in 1987, '88, '89, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you think he has -- as a member, does he have the same rights and say in church matters as you do at Columbia Station even though he came later?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. I'm asking these questions because I see in your pleadings, and when I say pleadings, the paperwork that the lawyer filed in this case there's a lot of time spent, a lot of paper spent talking about you being the original founder, you helping construct the church, having blueprints, the deed, and title insurance, that you helped contribute money for the vacant land, the construction costs. If it has any relevance, if it means anything in this case, because you've told me it doesn't give you any more rights at the church, so why is it even relevant to what we're doing in the courts? Those claims of construction and having possession of those documents, how is it relevant to the case? Is it?
A. I don't understand what you mean, relevant?


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Q. What bearing do those facts have on the claims that are in court in the lawsuit, the fact that you were one of the original people on Depo Exhibit 1, that you helped do the building, that you have possession of the deed, the blueprints, the title insurance, that you helped contribute towards the purchase of the vacant land and the construction of the building, what does that have to do with anything that is before the court, since it doesn't give you any more rights or say in church matters.
A. I do not know. I'm not a judge.
Q. Okay.
A. A judge make that decision.
Q. Well, what do you -- why do you think those facts have any bearing on our case?
A. I can't answer that because I don’t know.
Q. Okay. By the way, this is -- I'm holding up Deposition Exhibit Number 1, this is a copy, right?
A. Right.
Q. Do you know where the original document is?
A. Original?
Q. Yeah. Who has the original document; do you know?
A. That's over Congregation Nazarene6 Cleveland Romanian. They have it, original.
Q. Okay.
A. They send me this (indicating).
Q. All right. So you never had the original --
A. No. I never see it.
Q. From your understanding, if I want to become a member of the church in Columbia Station, what do I have to do to become a member of Columbia Station?
A. First of all, you have to be baptized.
Q. Okay. Do I -- so if I start attending services, it hasn't -- and this happened to you, I think, at the original church, that's not going to make you a member. You can come to services, but until you're baptized in the church you're not a member, correct?
A. No.
Q. So you got to be baptized, and after you are baptized, then you have an obligation to pay dues; is that correct?
A. Absolutely.


To: ACCN ELDERS
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(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 A-F to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN were marked for identification.)
MR. KRAUS: I'm going to take a short break.
(Thereupon, there was a brief recess.)
MS. RUSSELL: I just want to explain something. I think Mr. Stefan has a hard time understanding a question when it's a very long question. So if you have -- and you have a lot of very long questions. And I understand why, because you're trying to explain the context for your question, but when it's a long question I think it's harder for -- much harder for Mr. Stefan to follow it and to understand it. For example, there were questions about whether or not Mr. P has the same rights as Ms. Stefan. He was thinking you were talking about spiritual rights in the church. I don't think he was understanding exactly what the question was. I just want to clarify that that's been part of his problem with when he says he doesn't understand, sometimes it's because the question is too long.
MR. KRAUS: I understand that we just took a short break and you had an opportunity to talk to Mr. Petar Stefan and his son Dorel.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. And I've said numerous times during the course of this deposition, if you don't understand the questions, I'll rephrase them so that you understand them. I've probably done that four or five times. And you've told me that you'd bring it to my attention when you don't understand my question, remember that? Do you remember me doing that, giving you the opportunity to tell me you don't understand questions so I can rephrase them?
MS. RUSSELL: You need to answer yes or no.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Do you remember me saying that to you?
A. Yes.
Q. So now your lawyer is saying that the answer you gave, you didn't understand, and you really meant to say something else. So you didn't tell me at the time I asked the question regarding Dimetri P that you didn't understand. You answered the question clearly, correct? Right?
A. Yeah.


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Q. You have no more rights or say in the church than Dimetri P who's also a member of the Columbia Station Church; is that correct?
A. Yes.
MS. RUSSELL: You're asking --
Q. Well --
MR. KRAUS: Now, listen, I know you want to tell him something, but --
MS. RUSSELL: Well --
MR. KRAUS: -- that's not appropriate.
THE WITNESS: You said about members.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay.
Mr. Kraus, that's --
MR. KRAUS: You could -
MS. RUSSELL: -- where you could be phrasing the question. That's what I'm talking about is constructing very --
MR. KRAUS: You may not --
MS. RUSSELL: -- long questions. And it's harder for him to follow the very long questions.
MR. KRAUS: Okay. Ms. Russell, you may not like the question because you don't like the answer he's giving, but I'm asking the questions, he's giving the answers. And he says he understands. So we'll let the Judge figure it out.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay. It's just I can see when he's confused. And I'm trying to give you the opportunity now to ask a question in the way I know he'll understand.
THE WITNESS: Yeah. Now I understand --
MR. KRAUS: Thank you for your concern.
THE WITNESS: -- what you're talking about.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Let me do this again, and this is probably, I don't know, the sixth time I'm going to explain this to you. If you don't understand a question, tell me, I'll rephrase it. Will you do that?
A. Yes.
Q. How many times have I told you this instruction? Several times this morning, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And when you haven't understood a question, you have brought it to my attention; haven't you? You've done that. You've told me 19 many times you don't understand a question and I've rephrased it for you, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The reason we do this is because I don't want later on for you to say, well, I didn't understand the question. I'm giving you every opportunity to tell me you don't understand something so that that doesn't occur down the road. Is that fair? Is that fair to do it that way?
A. That's fair, but I still don't understand that's what you asked me that question. I messed up with the spiritual and, you know, like the labor, money. I don't understand that.
Q. Let me hand you what's been marked as Depo Exhibit 2 A-F. Can I hand that to you? I want you to look through it. Have you had a chance to look through those pages? Have you looked at the document?
A. No.


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Q. Okay. Take your time.
A. There's so many.
Q. Have you looked at it now?
A. I looked.
Q. Have you seen this document before? You've seen this before; haven't you?
A. Yes.
Q. And these were the original corporation documents that were filed for The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene, that's the Columbia
Station Church, correct?
A. Right, right.
Q. And were you still a member of the church when this document was filed with the State of Ohio in 1989?
A. Yes.
Q. So it was sometime after this was filed that you left, like in 1990, correct?
A. 1990, something like that. Yeah.
Q. And Traian Mohan also left about that time; didn't he?
A. Yes.
Q. And how long was he gone from --
A. Not too long.
Q. Okay. A couple years as far as you know? If you know.
A. No. I don't know, not a couple years.
Q. Did he go to the Romanian Nazarene Church in Cleveland when he left Columbia Station like you did?
A. Yes.
Q. And when he left Columbia Station, he was then a member of the Romanian Nazarene Church, correct? He was no longer a member at Columbia Station.
A. No.
Q. And you were no longer a member of Columbia Station.
A. No.
Q. So -- and neither of you were paying dues when you left and went back to Romanian Nazarene, right?
A. Right.
Q. So would you agree that any titles you had or positions you had at Columbia Station you really gave those up, and Traian gave them up also when you left and went back to Romanian Nazarene Congregation Cleveland?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection to the form of the question.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Do you understand the question?
A. I give up?
Q. When you stopped -- you stopped being a member of Columbia Station, you went back to Romanian Nazarene in Cleveland, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And Traian did the same thing, correct?
A. Right.
Q. Would you agree if Traian was a trustee at Columbia Station, he gave that up when he stopped being a member and came -- went back to his membership at the Romanian Nazarene Congregation. Would you agree with that? Yes?
A. He was a trustee?
Q. When he left Columbia Station, he stopped being a member of Columbia Station sometime in 1990, correct? Is that correct?
A. Correct, probably.
Q. Like when you left in 1990, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you both stopped being members and became members again at the Romanian Nazarene Congregation Cleveland, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you'd agree that when Traian left Columbia Station, he was no longer a trustee of Columbia Station because he was a member back at 16 the Nazarene -- the Romanian Nazarene Congregation of Cleveland. You agree with that?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. So I want you to look at -- I want you to look at page of this depo. I think that would be Exhibit 2D of this exhibit. Are you looking at that? There's a paragraph, it says, "Fourth". Do you see where it says, "Fourth"? Do you see that? It says, "Fourth, the following persons".
A. Uh-huh.
Q. You can read that, that sentence, can't you? Can you read that? Do you have any problem reading what's written there? Can you read that sentence? Are you capable of reading that? Just what you're looking at where it says, "Fourth". Do you see where it says, "Fourth", and I quote --
A. Yes.


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Q. -- "The following persons, not less than three, shall serve the corporation as trustees until the first annual meeting or other meeting called to elect trustees," you can see that, you've read that, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And there's a number of names that are written in under that paragraph, right?
A. My name?
Q. No. There are a number of names written there. It starts out with Jon Patrutz, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So does your name appear writtenin after this sentence about who the trustees of the corporation are; is your name there? Is your name --
A. On this paper?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Does your name appear anywhere in this Exhibit 2 A-F? Anywhere, your name anywhere in this paperwork?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Can you -- I don't have a very good copy of this particular document. Do you know where this original paperwork is by any chance? 11 This original filing with the state, do you know where this original paperwork is?
A. Jon Patrutz has it. I never take the paper. Jon Patrutz has the paperwork. I am only construction. I do the construction. That was my work.
Q. I see written in here is the name Jon Patrutz. That's the first name, correct? Right? That's the --
A. Yeah, yeah. That's first name.
Q. All right. And so you would agree that Jon Patrutz was an original trustee of the corporation according to this document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then there's Peter Miu?
A. Yes.
Q. And you're looking at me, but I want you to tell me, is that the next name in here, Peter Miu?
A. Yes.
Q. And he was also a member of Columbia Station Church?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And one of the original trustees, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Jon Patrutz is dead; is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. When did Mr. Patrutz die; do you know? How long ago?
A. 2014. I think, 2014.
Q. And Peter Miu, where is Peter Miu?
A. Peter Miu.
Q. If you know.
A. He left when I left, before me. He left before me, went to Florida, move.
Q. Okay. That's --
A. To another congregation, Nazarene Congregation.
Q. All right. So he stopped being a member of the church also.
A. Correct, correct.
Q. All right. So he was no longer a trustee when you left, you'd agree with that.
A. No.
Q. You'd agree with me, he stopped being a trustee when he left, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And then after Peter Miu's name is Petru Dolinga?
A. Dolinga. Yeah.
Q. Right. And Mr. Dolinga also left the church; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And he's a member somewhere else; is that correct?
A. Florida, yeah.
Q. In Florida also. And you'd agree that, when he left the church. He gave up his position as a trustee also, if he was still a trustee.
A. Yes.


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Q. And then there's -- the next name, if you can make it out, I think that's Traian Mohan's name.
A. Mohan, yeah.
Q. And that's Mr. Mohan who's in the room with us today, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. And we also know that he left the church and gave up his position also.
A. Yes.
Q. All right. What's the next name after Traian? Peter -
A. Oldja.
Q. Is that Peter Oldja?
A. Peter Oldja.
Q. And did Peter Oldja also leave Columbia Station as a member?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. When -- do you know when he left
A. He don't left, he died.
Q. I guess he did leave, he died. When did Mr. Oldja die? I think I knew that. Do you know? If you don't know, it's okay. Was it five, ten years ago, or -
A. No.
Q. Recently?
A. Last year.
Q. Last year.
A. Yeah, last year.
Q. All right.
A. He also came from Romanian Congregation after us.
Q. So you'll agree that according to this document the original trustees of the church are people named in this document, and they're the trustees until the first annual meeting or other meeting to elect trustees; do you agree with that?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And you'll admit that you were not a trustee of the church when this document was filed in 1989, correct? You weren't a trustee in 1989, right?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Would you agree that pursuant to paragraph four of that exhibit that a meeting was subsequently held and trustees were elected by members of the congregation? After that got filed there was a meeting and trustees were elected, correct? If you know.
A. In '89?
Q. 1990 or '89?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So there was a meeting. And trustees were elected by majority of the members of the church; is that correct? That's how you elect trustees, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Kraus, the way you ask the questions, they -
MR. KRAUS: Let me ask the question.
MS. RUSSELL: Just --
MR. KRAUS: Excuse me. Don't interrupt. If you have -
MS. RUSSELL: I have -
MR. KRAUS: If you have --listen. If you have -
MS. RUSSELL: I have an objection.
A. There was no meeting in '89.
MS. RUSSELL: Hold on, Mr. Stefan.
A. You ask --
MS. RUSSELL: Hold on, Mr. Stefan.
MR. KRAUS: If you haven't --vjust listen.
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Kraus.
MR. KRAUS: If you're going to give a talking objection, that's really not right.
A. Well, I said --
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Stefan, hold on.
MR. KRAUS: No. You can wait.
MS. RUSSELL: I have to give a speaking objection if the type of objection is to the format of the question. Since that type of question can be rectified, that type of objection can be addressed at the deposition. That is what the rule is. And if you please would just let me finish what I'm saying.
MR. KRAUS: Sure.
MS. RUSSELL: What I'm saying is that because Mr. Stefan -- English is not his first language. I believe when you're asking leading questions and saying "correct" and "you agree," I think that phrasing of the question is confusing to him. So I would simply ask that you just ask direct questions that he can understand more clearly.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You've -- when I just asked these series of questions, you didn't tell me you didn't understand the questions; did you?
A. Now?


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Q. When I was just asking those series of8 questions, did you tell me, "I don't understand the question you just asked, Mr. Kraus"? Did you? I mean, just sitting here, did you tell me you didn't understand my questions?
A. In 1989, about this?
Q. Listen. Your lawyer keeps telling me on the record that I ask questions you don't understand.
A. I don't understand because it's --
Q. Okay. So --
A. -- '89 or '98. I don't know what you say.
Q. All right. So let's talk about there was a meeting -- I think you've already agreed to this, there was a meeting after these documents were filed with the state and trustees were elected by members of the congregation; is that correct?
A. In what year?
Q. 1990.
A. No.
Q. Okay.
A. Jon Patrutz pick the -- did the --
Q. Okay. So --
A. -- the trustees.
Q. Okay. And who did -- so you say Jon Patrutz just picked a trustee --
A. Right.
Q. -- in 1990.
A. Yeah.
Q. Was that after you left the church?
A. No. I don't left the church. I was there.
Q. And who did he pick?
A. No. I don't want to, I said. I no want be it --
Q. Okay.
A. -- let's put somebody else.
Q. Okay. And who did he pick? Who did Jon Patrutz pick?
A. He pick Peter Miu, Petru Dolinga, and other two, Mohan Traian and Peter Rose. At that time we don't have no, like, vote or something, we just pick. Probably he went to his house -- home to Mohan and say, hey, want to be a trustee?
Q. And would you agree when they had that meeting, that was basically all the original members in 1989 and to '90, correct?
A. That's not right. We don't have too many.
Q. So you just had an informal agreement that this is who the trustees were going to be, according to Jon Patrutz and at this meeting, is correct? Is that what happened?
A. Yeah. Jon Patrutz picked up. Yeah, he picked this.
Q. Okay. And it was -- it was shortly after that that you gave up your membership at Columbia Station; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And also Traian gave up his membership.
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. And you didn't come back until 1998.
A. Correct.
Q. You're not there for eight years.
A. Correct.
Q. Do you have knowledge that during that eight-year period there were meetings at Columbia Station to elect trustees? Do you know that?
A. When I came?
Q. While you were gone.
A. No.
Q. You don't know.
A. No.
Q. Because you weren't there, right?
A. I was not there.
Q. All right. But as far as you know that's how trustees are selected, it's by majority vote of the members of the congregation, correct? That's your understanding, yes?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Is it your understanding that trustees are elected by the members of the congregation; that's how you understand it's done, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I was not there that time.
Q. I'm not asking that. I'm asking you, as far as you understand that's how trustees are appointed, it's by election of members of the congregation.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. That is start in 1998 when I came.
Q. Okay.
A. That's what that was -- then they start voting election.


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Q. All right.
A. Ballot voting, secret.
Q. I got you, but from the time you left until 1998 you wouldn't know what they were doing because you weren't there, correct?
A. No.
Q. Okay.
A. I'm gone. I was not there. I don't know nothing.
Q. I understand. So do you claim you became a trustee of the church in 1998?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. And you admit that in 1998 you became a trustee when you were elected by the members of the congregation.
A. That's correct.
Q. And if I understand you correctly, when votes were taken in 1998, was that by a secret ballot?
A. That's correct.
Q. And do you remember who else was trustee when you became a trustee in 1998?
A. Jon Patrutz.
Q. All right. Were there any other trustees other than you and Jon Patrutz in 1998?
A. Probably Dolinga, Petru Dolinga.
Q. Okay. And that's Petru Dolinga. The documents from the meeting in 1998 where you were elected by secret ballot to be a trustee, do you know where any of those documents are, where they would be?
A. No. We don't keep nothing. We -- it's secret ballot. The elder keep for maybe -- or not the -- the minister keep for month. And nobody does say nothing, they throw away.
Q. Okay. After you returned to the church, the Columbia Station Church in 1998 through today, through September -- let me see. Start over. After you were elected as a trustee in 1998 through August of 2015, were -- can you remember a trustee being removed from their position?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was removed as trustee?
A. Not removed, leave. They stopped, you know, they no want to be --resign. Miu -- Jouan Miu.
Q. Miu resigned?
A. Yeah.
Q. So do you remember when Miu would've resigned?
A. No.
Q. And when Miu resigned, would you agree that there would be a meeting of the members and there would be an election to replace that trustee? That's how you do it.
A. That's how we do it, yeah.


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Q. And is that what happened when Peter --was Peter Oldja a trustee of the church before he left; if you remember?
A. No. Peter Dolinga.
Q. Okay.
A. Peter was that died.
Q. Before Peter Oldja died. Obviously he's not a trustee after he died. I'm talking about before he died, was Peter Oldja a trustee of the church; if you recall?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Okay. I may have got this confused, butwho was Micku Mindria? Is that this other name?
A. Right here on this paper (indicating).
Q. You're looking at Exhibit 1, the original people who came to Columbia Station?
A. He tried to be, but he left.
Q. Okay. So he left the Columbia Station Church?
A. He came with that group which was burned the church. That's when he came to this church.
Q. Okay. But he's on this original8 document on Deposition Exhibit 1. Is his name on here (indicating), this Micku Mindria?
A. He's on -- he don't sign over here, Mindria. Right here (indicating).
Q. Mindria?
A. Mindria, Steve -- Stevan.
Q. Okay. And that's --
A. That one (indicating).
Q. I got you. So when I say Micku Mindria, you think that's Mindria Stevan?
A. Stevan.
Q. Stevan.
A. Stevan.
Q. And that's right, and that says he's not a member.
A. Yeah. He won't sign because he don't want to put money.
Q. Okay. When you're elected as trustee of
the Columbia Station Church, as you were in 1998, how long do you serve as trustee?
A. As long as you don't step down. If you step down, or they want to remove you as a church, but you don't step down, you know, you'll be, like, fine, you know, I was always.
Q. There was never a determined --
A. No.
Q. -- term, two years, one year, three years?
A. No. Because we have a few people, not too many people. And then trustee have a lot of work.
Q. Sometimes the person that gets the job is the one who least wants it, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. So when you're elected by the church members to be a trustee, there's no term limit of one, two, or three years? There's no limit? You just do it until you either die, or resign, or are removed; is that correct?
A. That's correct. Or if you don't want no more, yeah.
Q. Do you know if there's any documents that would say that when you're elected trustee you remain a trustee until you voluntarily resign, or are removed, or anything like that?
A. No.
Q. Any paperwork? Okay. So from your own knowledge you at least know in 1998 trustees were elected by secret ballot, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And did the process of electing trustees continue through '99, 2000, 2001? Did it ever change, or were trustees always elected by secret ballot?
A. No.


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Q. Okay. Did it change?
A. It changed.
Q. When did it change?
A. 2012, if I'm not mistaken.
Q. Okay. So we can agree that the process of the congregation electing trustees, as far as you know, went from 1998 to 2012; you agree with that, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. What happened in 2012, how did it change and why did it change? Well, first of all, why was there a change in 2012?
A. Because of the -- Jon Patrutz, you know, was healed. I don't know. He was not --
Q. I'm sorry. Because Jon Patrutz --
A. Yeah, he was sick. He got sick.
Q. He got sick?
A. He got sick.
Q. And what happened?
A. And that time when he was being removed from the trustee. And we -- some people left, and we very short. And very few people in the church. We put Mohan Traian beside me. Only me and him --
Q. Okay.
A. -- would be trustee from 2012.
Q. Was --
A. No secret ballots, just name him, you agree, that's it, with the congregation.
Q. The congregation would --
A. Yes.
Q. -- say --
A. Okay.
Q. Would they stand and say okay?
A. No, no.
Q. Just everybody would say by -
A. Yeah.
Q. -- verbally, we agree?
A. Yes. Just say, we agree.
Q. So there just wasn't a secret ballot --
A. No.
Q. -- it was just --
A. No.
Q. -- an agreement with the congregation.
A. Yes.
Q. And 2012, you're saying that's when Traian became -
A. A trustee.
Q. -- a trustee?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Had he been a trustee at any time between 1998 and 2012?
A. I don't know. I don't know this. My knowledge, I don't think so, but
Q. You don't remember an election -
A. No.


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Q. -- between that time period --
A. No, no.
Q. -- electing Traian Mohan as a trustee?
A. I'm not remember. I don't know.
Q. You don't recall.
A. Yeah, I don't recall.
Q. So he could've been a trustee at some point during that time, 1998 to 2012, but you don't recall?
A. I don't recall. I don't remember.
Q. But you remember 2012?
A. 2012, yes.
Q. Okay. So why did the process change in 2012 for electing trustees? In your opinion, why was there a different process, because there wasn't as many people? You tell me.
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Stefan, you need to give an answer.
A. I give one. I think because it's, like, faster. You don't have to write anything.
Q. Okay.
A. We have some member. I ask person, you know, you want to be trustee? No, I don't have no time. I am in business, and this. And I sat with Traian Mohan, he sat behind me and I point at him, I say, you want to take it, because it's -- we few people in the church.
Q. Okay.
A. And he said okay.
Q. And this --
A. And that's what we call it, like, this. Okay.
Q. And that took place in a church meeting.
A. Right.
Q. And what do you remember at that -- who was at -- the members of the congregation were at that church meeting, correct? Whoever was left, right? Correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And do you remember who ran that meeting, was it one of the ministers?
A. Yeah. It was Dave Nicholson, too.
Q. So that's Elder Dave Nicholson.
A. That's Elder Dave Nicholson.
Q. He's from another congregation.
A. He's from another congregation, yeah.
Q. And do you remember him being at that meeting in 2012; is that correct?
A. Say again.
Q. Do you remember Elder David Nicholson being at the meeting -
A. Yes.
Q. -- in 2012?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. You can give me that back for now.
MR. KRAUS: This is page 20 in your documents.
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN was marked for identification.)
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. I'm going to hand you what's been marked as Deposition Exhibit 3. Do you know what that document is? Have you seen that before?
A. Yes.
Q. What is Exhibit 3? Do you know what that exhibit is? Do you know what it is?
A. Yeah.
Q. What is it?
A. We put new trustee instead of.
Q. Well, I'm asking -- this says -- at the top in the left-hand corner it says, Apostolic Christian, Columbia Station. That's the church we're talking about today, correct? Right? That's what it says. And then it says it's February 12th, 2012, right?
A. Right.
Q. It says, meeting notes. Because when you're talking about the meeting in 2012 where you stopped doing secret ballots, is this referring to that meeting, as far as you know? Do these notes refer to that meeting?
A. That's my knowledge. That's the first, yeah, of the secret ballot -- no secret ballot.
Q. Okay. Do you know, were meeting notes between 1998 and 2012, February 2012, were there written notes regarding the church meetings? Did someone keep a written record of those meetings between 1998 and 2012?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know who typed out this document, Exhibit 3?
A. I have this here (indicating).
Q. Who typed it out? Do you know who
prepared that document?
A. Dorel.
Q. That's your son, Dorel.
A. He was the treasurer, yeah.
Q. He was the treasurer.
A. Right.
Q. And, by the way, he was a treasurer because he was elected to be treasurer, correct? He was elected by the congregation to be the treasurer, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you're telling me he typed out -- as far as you know, Exhibit 3 was typed by your son, Dorel, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you know when he typed this document? When was it typed; do you know?
A. When?
Q. Yeah. Do you know?
A. No, I don't know. The date, I don't know the date.
Q. Do you know if there's any handwritten documents from what took place on February 12th, 2012? Did anyone take notes? Did Dorel take notes, handwritten notes, from the meeting?
A. Take notes?
Q. Yeah. Do you know?
A. I don't recall. I don't --
Q. Okay. You don't remember if Dorel took handwritten notes?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know if Dorel keeps a notebook of handwritten notes regarding church business; does he do that?
A. I think, yes.
Q. Okay. And have you seen that notebook of handwritten notes regarding church business that
Dorel kept? Has he showed it to you?
A. Not -- the treasurer -- when he's -- I am -- I'm now the treasurer. He was, Mohan, treasurer. I don't know the --


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Q. Okay.
A. I was not the treasurer at that time. MR. KRAUS: I think in my request for documents I've asked for everything including notebooks. I think I did that.
MS. RUSSELL: I'm not aware of there being any notebook, but I'll talk to my clients later today.
MR. KRAUS: Well, let me at least tell you, if there is a notebook, I think it's covered by my request for documents. I'd ask that it be turned over so I can at least get a copy of it.
MS. RUSSELL: I will talk to my clients and see if such a notebook exists.
MR. KRAUS: Okay.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Okay. So you -- this Exhibit 3, you don't know when this was created by your son; do you?
A. The date, I don't know. The same -maybe after one month. I don't know exactly.
Q. You don't know?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. You'd just be guessing as to when this was created, correct? You don't know.
A. I don't know.
Q. And do you know if this document was circulated and given to other church members in 11 2012? Do you know if he gave -- passed this out to anybody, or you don't know.
A. I know one thing, he gave it to the other -- Dave Nicholson.
Q. He gave it to David Nicholson.
A. Yeah, and me. I don't know the other ones. I don't know.
Q. Why was Brother Nicholson -- Elder Nicholson presiding over this meeting in 2012? Why was Elder Nicholson presiding over this meeting in 21 February of 2012?
A. The minister call him to come to watch and work with him, because he's going to put the trustee and --
Q. Okay. So --
A. -- and treasurer.
Q. All right. So he was there because you believe the minister of Columbia Station called for him to come help; is that your understanding?
A. That's true.
Q. Who was the minister at that time; do you know?
A. Zula.
Q. Who was it? Zula?
A. Zula. Yeah, George Zula.
Q. Okay.
A. Dimetri P and Mike Petras.
Q. According to this document, it says the current church trial ministers remain George Zula, 15 Peter Oldja, Mike Petras, and Dimetri P. Is it your understanding those were the ministers?
A. Yeah. Peter Oldja died. That's right. I miss him.
Q. Okay.
A. At that time he was here, Peter Oldja.
Q. Okay.
A. Correct.


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Q. All right. And it also says in here, "The number of church trustees was decreased to two and appointed to serve for five years". Do you see where it says that?
A. Yes, yes. That's correct.
Q. Okay. And do you recall that being discussed at that meeting? Do you remember specifically that those -- that issue was discussed, the number of trustees?
A. Yeah. He's the elder, he said it, Dave Nicholson.
Q. This was what he suggested?
A. Yeah, he said five years. He's the one.
Q. So in this document it says in the first line that this was a members only meeting. Does that mean -- what does that mean, members only?
A. Only members of the church.
Q. Okay. So individuals who had been baptized in the church would be a member, correct, members of the congregation?
A. Yeah, if you move. Yeah.
Q. It wouldn't include children, for example, right? You wouldn't have children at this meeting, correct?
A. No. No children.
Q. And so I'm clear, why did -- you don't know of any other meeting notes being taken prior to February 2012; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So why is there a written record starting February 2012; do you know why?
A. Say again.
Q. Do you know -- do you know why in 2012 there are typed meeting notes from February 12th, 2012? And there are no -- you don't know of any other typed-up notes?
A. Oh, there was before typed notes.
Q. There were notes?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. Okay.
A. But I didn't have them.
Q. So there were --
A. There was --
Q. There are notes that were kept of prior church meetings; is that correct?
A. That's correct. Yeah.
Q. And those were meetings where trustees were elected by the congregational members, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. If necessary.
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. Where are those notes, those written notes; do you know?
A. No. Because I think the treasurer, they kept them.
Q. Would they be kept at the church?
A. No.
Q. No?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So would David Nicholson come in and preside over those other meetings where elections were done for trustees and treasurers? Was that a regular practice, to bring in an elder for those meetings?
A. No, before we do it ourselves.
Q. So --
A. The minister and the church.


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Q. Okay. So why was Elder Nicholson at this meeting?
A. If you call him, he's coming.
Q. Okay. But why was he called to come to this meeting?
A. Probably to visit us and see what's happening, what's going on.
Q. Okay. So there's no specific reason for him to be there?
A. No, but before him, we have another elder before him. He never come in. I don't see him.
Q. Do you remember him writing the notes, presiding over this meeting of members in February 12th, 2012? Did he preside? Did he run the show in February 2012 in this meeting?
A. He just -- somebody have a question and ask him, you know, about this or this. Not too many questions to ask.
Q. And it's your testimony that reducing the trustees to two and creating a five-year term was a result of David Nicholson saying that's what you should do.
A. Yes.
Q. And the members agreed to that.
A. Yes.
Q. And you specifically remember that happening, or are you just saying I see it's on the paper? Do you really remember this meeting?
A. No, he said that. You can --
Q. Okay. I'm just asking the questions.
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. All right.
A. He said five years. It would not be in the paper if he didn't say that.
Q. So the -- according to you, the decision to appoint Traian and you as trustees was done by an informal agreement with the members of the congregation?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you remember anyone saying, no, I don't agree with that?
A. No.
Q. As far as you know, everyone agreed.
A. Yeah.
Q. When you would have these church meetings, besides talking about who the trustee is going to be or the treasurer is going to be, was other church business discussed such as, you know, looking for new insurance for the building, that type of I call it housekeeping type items, how we're spending the money; is that what would be discussed at these meetings?
A. Sometimes.
Q. Would you discuss, like, what people are donating for their dues and discuss those types of issues at these annual meetings? Was that -- would you talk about issues that involve just running the church, like we need to do repairs; would you discuss that at these meetings?
A. Repairs?
Q. Like repairs.
A. Sure. We would talk, yeah.
Q. Would you talk about collecting dues from members; would that be discussed?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And, by the way, according to these meetings notes, do you recall there being a problem with the State of Ohio as far as paperwork that hadn't been filed or hadn't been renewed? Do you remember anything about that?
A. I don't understand the question.
Q. It says here, "The church has been reinstated with the State of Ohio." Do you remember there being a problem with the church not being recognized by the state? Do you remember any conversation about that?
A. Yes.


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Q. Okay. Tell me what you recall about that.
A. We find out, my son, the treasurer, and just -- he call. And the church was not registered for so many years.
Q. Okay.
A. And we talked to them as a group. As a group, we say, you call them, and we -- we're going to register. And that's what he did.
Q. Okay.
A. For some, I think, I'm not sure, but nine years maybe, ten, there was no -- I'm not so sure, but for a long time.
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN was marked for identification.)
MR. KRAUS: I'm looking at 21.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay. Mr. Kraus, are we going to break for lunch at sometime? It's about 1:40 now, or do you --
MR. KRAUS: Oh, we'll --
MS. RUSSELL: I guess I should ask, how much longer do you think you have on --
MR. KRAUS: I think we --
MS. RUSSELL: -- Mr. Stefan? Maybe we can finish him up and then we can take a short break for lunch.
MR. KRAUS: I'll find a place to take a break within the next five minutes.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay.
MR. KRAUS: That makes sense.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. I'm going to hand you what's been marked as Exhibit 4. Do you know what that document is,
Exhibit 4?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. What is Exhibit 4? Is that also what appears to be meeting notes from a meeting that took place on March 16th, 2014? That's what it says, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know where this meeting would have taken place? Would it be at the church?
A. At church.
Q. Okay. And this is a meeting also of the congregational members, right?
A. Right.
Q. And do you know -- well, this says 2014. Do you know if there was an annual meeting in 2013; do you remember?
A. No.
Q. There was no meeting?
A. No meeting.
Q. Why was there no meeting in 2013?
A. We just had no meeting.
Q. Okay. Just didn't get around to it?
A. Everything was good, you know, treasurer or nobody --
Q. There was no change?
A. Yeah, no change.
Q. No changes. Okay. I see, according to these notes, that Elder Nicholson presided over this church meeting. Do you know why he was presiding over this church meeting?
A. Since he come elder in our church, he come, but before him, no, they don't come. We conduct ourself.
Q. All right. So --
A. So I think he is -- probably he wants to come, you know, to see, visit us.
Q. Okay. So there wasn't any -- any one particular reason other than that he thought it was a nice thing for him to come and maybe visit?
A. Not to my knowledge. I don't know.
Q. Okay.
A. No particular reason.
Q. Do you know who called David Nicholson to come to this meeting in March 2014?
A. No.
Q. Well, why was there a meeting in March of 2014?
A. Why is the meeting?
Q. Yeah. Why was there a meeting in March of 2014?
A. There's a meeting if we have some problem, you know, like break something or repair something or -
Q. Okay.
A. -- some needs.
Q. Okay. So in this meeting, according to this note, Dimetri P became the treasurer, correct?
A. Yes.


To: ACCN ELDERS
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Q. And that was by agreement of the congregation -
A. That's correct.
Q. -- right?
A. I see over here (indicating).
Q. And, Dorel, your son, was also the treasurer, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And the congregation members agreed to that, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And according to this particular document, the trustees remained you and Traian Mohan; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. There was no change?
A. That's correct.
Q. And it mentions the ministers, right? And it's talking -- talk about who the ministers were for the church, right?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay.
MR. KRAUS: This is 22.
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN was marked for identification.)
BY. MR. KRAUS:
Q. I'm going to hand you Exhibit 5. Okay. Have you had a chance to look at that?
A. Yes.
Q. Before I go to Exhibit 5, Exhibit 4 was typed-up meeting notes. This was also prepared by your son, Dorel as far as you know?
A. Yes.
Q. And you don't know when this was typed or created?
A. No, no.
Q. No. Maybe Dorel would know? Maybe I'll ask Dorel, maybe he would know?
A. He knows.
Q. All right.
A. He knows more than I do.
Q. All right. And --
A. I wish I can speak better English.
Q. You're doing fine. Exhibit 5, this is also what appears to be meeting notes from February 11 2015. It appears to be another annual meeting of the church; is that a fair statement? The Do you understand my question? Do you want me to rephrase it, ask again? Let me ask it again. Is Exhibit 5 as far as you know a record of a meeting that took place in March of 2015, as far as you know?
MS. RUSSELL: Just to clarify, Mr. Kraus.
MR. KRAUS: Please, don't. I'll ask another one.
MS. RUSSELL: It's just the top right corner, it's February, not March.
MR. KRAUS: Right.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Let me ask you another question. Do you remember a meeting taking place at the church on or 4 about February 8th, 2015? Do you remember a church meeting taking place last year, a little more than a year ago; do you remember it?
A. 2015?
Q. Yeah. Do you remember the meeting? In February 2015 do you remember a meeting at the church that was presided over by Elder David Nicholson a little more than a year ago? Do you remember that meeting? If you don't remember, you can say I don't remember.
A. I'm not so sure on that.
Q. Okay. You're not sure you remember a meeting in February 2015 Mr. Stefan, let me ask you this question another way. Exhibit 5, it seems to suggest that a meeting took place in February of 2015 and it was
presided over by David Nicholson according to this document that apparently was recorded and prepared by your son, Dorel, Exhibit 5.
Do you remember that meeting taking place?
A. Yes.


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Q. Okay. So you remember being at the church in February 2015 for a meeting, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the congregation, the members were there; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you addressed church business at that time, according to this document, correct? There was church business to attend to, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And according to this document, it says that you were going to be the new treasurer in place of Dimetri P.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember that happening?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And that was basically done by an informal vote of the congregation. There's no secret ballot.
A. No.
Q. It was just by agreement of the group.
A. Yeah. Yes.
Q. All right. And your son also remained church treasurer, according to this document, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you remember that?
A. Correct.
Q. It also says the treasurers have been appointed for five years. Do you remember -- do you recall that being discussed at that meeting?
A. That's Dave Nicholson. That's what he said.
Q. Before this being done in February of 2015, how long did people hold the position of treasurer? Was it until they resigned or decided not to do it anymore?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay.
A. That's like Dimetri P, he said he don't want to do it no more. And I find somebody.
Q. And according to this document, you and Traian continue to be trustees of the church, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. But they'd already -- in the document from 2012, Depo Exhibit 3, it already said that you and Traian were going to be trustees for five years, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you know why it says here you've been appointed for five years in 2015 when you've been appointed for five years in 2012, according to the documents that I've gotten from the lawyer; do you know why? Do you know?
A. Because the church wanted.
Q. I'm just asking why there was -- according to these documents, Depo Exhibit 3, which is from 2012 says you and Traian are going to be trustees for five years, that would take you through 2017, correct?
A. Yes.


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A. Yes.
Q. So why was it stated in this document from February 2015, do you know, that you were going to be -- you and Traian would be trustees for five years? Do you know why?
A. That's nobody wanted. We spend like a half hour. And Dave Nicholson says, that's enough. He appoint me, you going to be treasurer.
Q. Okay. And everyone agreed.
A. Yeah, they have to agree. They have no discussion.
MR. KRAUS: Want to take a half hour?
MS. RUSSELL: Okay.
(Thereupon, there was a brief recess.)
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Let's talk about Elder David Nicholson for a few minutes. Now, if I understood your answers from before, Elder Nicholson isn't a member of Columbia Station Church, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. You would agree that Elder David8 Nicholson is not a trustee of the Columbia Station Church, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You would agree that the only people who have the ability to elect trustees of the Columbia Station Church are the congregational members of the Columbia Station Church?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. You would agree with that?
A. Repeat again.
Q. Sure. Would you agree that the only people that could elect trustees of the Columbia Station Church are the members of that church.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And, by the way, you would also agree that David Nicholson did not have any power to remove a trustee from Columbia Station Church. He doesn't have that power; does he?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. So for removing a trustee, the only people that can remove a trustee from Columbia Station Church, again, is the members of the congregation, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You can answer.
A. What? Say that again.
MR. KRAUS: Can you read that question again, please?
(Thereupon, a portion of the record was read.)
A. I don't understand that question.
Q. Okay. What don't you understand about that question?
A. About who can remove us from the trustee.
Q. Okay. What part of that question don't you understand? Well, let me ask you, can David Nicholson remove a trustee from Columbia Station? David Nicholson doesn't have the power to do it --
A. No.
Q. -- does he?
A. No.


To: ACCN ELDERS
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Q. The only people that can remove a trustee at Columbia Station is the congregation of that church; you would agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I don't know the answer.
Q. Well, you understand the question; don't you? You've got to answer the question. Your lawyer's objected. The judge will decide whether that's a proper question or not, but you have to answer.
A. They don't have no power, only if we open the church, a meeting in the church, not outside the church.
Q. Okay. Right. So the people that can remove a trustee from the Columbia Station Church are the members of the congregation by voting to remove the trustee; do you agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You have to answer the question.
A. No.
Q. And why do you disagree with that statement?
A. Because the church is closed. We don't have no meeting.
Q. I'm not asking about now. I'm saying before the church was closed, would you agree that the people who could remove a trustee of the Columbia Station Church would be its members; you would agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I don't know the question. I can't answer.
Q. You say you can't answer. Do you not want to answer the question, or you don't understand the question?
A. I don't understand because I was not there, you know, it was somebody.
Q. I'm not asking about whether you were somewhere or anywhere. I'm just asking your opinion here that trustees can be removed as trustees from the Columbia Station Church if the congregation votes to remove them.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Do you agree with that? What's your answer?
A. I don't know.
Q. Why don't you know?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. Goahead. I don't know that there's a question before you, but --
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. My question is: Can the congregation vote to remove trustees of the Columbia Station Church?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. That's been asked and answered about three times, and he keeps saying no, or he doesn't know.
MR. KRAUS: Quit saying that. That's not what he did. Just let him answer the question. You can object.
A. I'm not -- I don't understand what to say.
Q. Trustees of Columbia Station Church are appointed by election of the church members, correct? You already said that.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection to the time frame. With this exhibit, it happened a different -- it was a different point in time that it changed.
MR. KRAUS: Okay. Really, Monica, if you want to end this deposition because you keep on making these talking objections, and we'll do that. We can go to court and we can do this --
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Kraus -


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MR. KRAUS: We can reconvene this deposition --
MS. RUSSELL: I'll make mine, but I need to explain this to you.
MR. KRAUS: You don't have to explain anything.
MS. RUSSELL: There are certain points in time when talking objections are appropriate. And it's those distinctions --
MR. KRAUS: This is not appropriate. You are communicating --
MS. RUSSELL: -- where you can rephrase the question --
MR. KRAUS: You are -
MS. RUSSELL: -- that I need to do a talking objection; otherwise, it won't be proper later on. I have to give you an opportunity to rephrase the question to overcome the objection. It's part of my duty.
MR. KRAUS: Okay.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. We agree that trustees are appointed at Columbia Station by an election of the church members.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. Do you agree with that?
A. I don't answer that question.
Q. Why don't you answer that?
A. I don't want to answer the question.
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Stefan, you need to answer the question. You either answer the question, or if you don't know the answer, you say you don't know, but you do need to -- you can't refuse to answer the question.
A. I'm going to say no.
Q. And why is that not true?
A. I don't know.
Q. Why do you say no?
A. I'm going to say no.
Q. Okay. You say no.
A. Yeah.


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Q. So you say trustees are not elected at the Columbia Station Church; is that your position? Is that your position, trustees are not elected?
They get their position some other way; is that what you're saying?
A. No.
Q. Okay. You were a trustee because you were elected by the congregation, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Traian Mohan became a trustee because he was elected by the congregation; is that correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. You can answer.
A. Yeah.
Q. And would you agree that the congregation could vote to remove you as a trustee of Columbia Station; do you agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. You can answer.
A. I say no.
Q. And why do you say no?
A. Because there's no church. It's closed.
Q. Before the church was closed would you agree that the members of the congregation could vote to remove you as a trustee?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You can answer.
A. I will not accept.
Q. You will not accept what?
A. I don't understand the question. I don't know what.
Q. Are you struggling to answer this question because you want to say yes, but you know it puts you in a bad position legally?
A. No.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. Mr. Kraus, you're being argumentative with my client.
Q. Is that the problem?
MS. RUSSELL: Now, perhaps if you asked him a direct question rather than a leading one he'd understand what you're asking and he can actually answer it.
MR. KRAUS: Thank you for your --
MS. RUSSELL: You haven't asked him --
MR. KRAUS: Thank you for your --
MS. RUSSELL: -- how are they removed? You just --
MR. KRAUS: Thank -
MS. RUSSELL: -- keep trying to lead him.
MR. KRAUS: Thank you for your input. I can ask the question any way I want.
MS. RUSSELL: Well, then -
MR. KRAUS: He is the opposing party.


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MS. RUSSELL: -- you're going to keep getting a confused answer.
MR. KRAUS: Okay. He doesn't seem to be confused to me. He seems like he doesn't want to answer the question.
MS. RUSSELL: Well, now you're just --
MR. KRAUS: So my -
MS. RUSSELL: -- putting your own conjecture.
MR. KRAUS: As much as you.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. My question to you is: Before the church was closed, in your opinion, could the members of the congregation vote to remove a trustee of Columbia Station? Yes or no?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know? You don't know because you don't understand the question?
A. Part of it.
Q. Which part don't you understand?
A. There was no church, it's closed.
Q. Okay. Now, I want to make this very clear. Before this church was closed, will you agree that the congregation could vote to remove trustees?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I don't know.
Q. Before the church was closed -- before you closed the church, how would trustees be removed at Columbia Station?
A. When there was the word to remove, to step down, or --
Q. Okay. How would a trustee be removed from Columbia Station before this church was closed, in your opinion?
A. How would they be -- they -- how they be removed?
Q. How could they be removed? Before the6 church was closed, how could trustees be removed at Columbia Station?
A. By voting. I don't know.
Q. By voting.
MS. RUSSELL: I'm sorry, I didn't actually -- can you read back what his answer was?
(Thereupon, a portion of the record was read.)
MS. RUSSELL: Okay.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. So -- all right. Just so we're clear then, you would agree that the congregation, prior to you closing this church, could vote to remove a trustee.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. You would agree with that.
A. Right after it's closed, the church?
Q. Before the church was closed, would you agree that trustees could be removed by voting?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. I think you just said that. Is that what you meant to say?
A. I don't know.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 15:56

4577 views
Q. What part don't you know? Do you not understand the question? Can trustees of the church -- before you closed the church, could trustees, in your opinion, be removed at Columbia Station by a vote of the members of the congregation?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I said before no, because the church is closed.
Q. And I keep telling you before the church was closed. Assume the church was open and not closed. Before it was closed, would you agree that trustees could be removed by a vote of the congregational members?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. Do you agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Please, just give your answer so we can move on.
A. Before congregation was closed, I say no.
Q. Okay. Why do you disagree with that statement?
A. Because there's no church.
Q. All right. We seem to be going around in circles here. Do you understand when I say prior to the church being closed, that's now part of my question. Do you understand that? I'd like you to assume before the church was closed, church is open, right? Assume that while the church is open that the congregation wants to remove a trustee. Would you agree that can only be done by an election of the congregation? Do you agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Can you answer the question?
A. You say if the church is open again?
Q. No. Prior to the church being closed would you agree that trustees could be removed by a vote of the congregational members?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. Yes or no?
A. Okay. Yes.
Q. Okay. In August 2015 was Mike Petras a member of the Columbia Station Church? Mike Petras?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And when I -- I'm going to use the word church, but I'm referring to the Columbia Station Church, okay? I just want to clarify that again. So Mike Petras was a member of the church, is that correct, in 2015? August of 2015, right? Mike Petras was a member of the church in August 2015?
A. Yes.
Q. Was Mihao Petras a member of the church in August of 2015?
A. Who?
Q. M-i-h-a-o. I don't know how to pronounce that name.
A. Mihao Petras?
Q. Yeah.
A. Yeah.
Q. He was a member, also? Was Maria Petras a member of the church in August 2015?
A. She's dead.
Q. Maria's dead?
A. Yeah.
Q. Are you sure? Is there another Maria Petras that's still alive? No Veronica Petru, was she a member in August of 2015? Yes? You have to say yes or no.
A. Yes.
Q. George Zula, was he a member of the church --
A. Yes.
Q. -- in August of 2015?
A. Yes.
Q. Lena Zula?
A. Yeah.
Q. Dawitha Nixa also a member of the church in August 2015?
A. She left.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 15:59

4575 views
Q. Okay. Did she leave before August of 2015 or after?
A. She left. I don't know when, but she left.
Q. Okay. When do you think she left?
A. When we closed the church, she left.
Q. Okay. So before the church was closed -- before it was closed she was a member of Columbia Station, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Suzan P, she's also a member of the church?
A. Yeah.
Q. Sister Manista --
A. Yes.
Q. -- also a member of the church in August 2015?
A. Yeah.
Q. Dimetri P, you already said he was a member of the church, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Laza Oldja, was she a --
A. Yes.
Q. -- member of the church? Viorica Patrutz -
A. Yeah.
Q. -- was also a member of the church, correct? Traian Mohan was a member of the church, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Anna Mohan, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. All those people that I've just gone over, these were members of the church in August 2015 before it was closed; is that correct? All those people I just went through, they were members of the church before you closed it in August -- end of August 2015; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Do you claim that Traian Mohan resigned his position as church trustee? Do -- are you saying Traian Mohan resigned his position as trustee of the church? Did he resign in your opinion?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. When did he resign? Do you know when?
A. I think October.
Q. Okay. And tell me, how is it that he resigned in October 2015? Why do you say he resigned in that time?
A. He don't talk to me. He don't -
Q. Okay. This isn't a conversation you had with Traian?
A. No.
Q. Who told you that Traian had resigned as trustee?
A. Dorel.
Q. Dorel, your son?
A. He talked to him.
Q. It wasn't part of your conversation? That's a no?
A. That's a no.
Q. Okay. Do you know if there was any documents in writing that Traian had resigned his position as a church trustee? Do you know if there's any documents that Traian signed?
A. He don't sign. We have document, but he don't want to sign.
Q. Okay.
MR. KRAUS: I don't think this is part of your stuff.
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN was marked for identification.)
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. So why was it stated in this document from February 2015, do you know, that you were going to be -- you and Traian would be trustees for five years? Do you know why?
A. That's nobody wanted. We spend like a half hour. And Dave Nicholson says, that's enough. He appoint me, you going to be treasurer.
Q. Okay. And everyone agreed.
A. Yeah, they have to agree. They have no discussion.
MR. KRAUS: Want to take a half hour?
MS. RUSSELL: Okay.
(Thereupon, there was a brief recess.)
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Let's talk about Elder David Nicholson for a few minutes. Now, if I understood your answers from before, Elder Nicholson isn't a member of Columbia Station Church, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. You would agree that Elder David8 Nicholson is not a trustee of the Columbia Station Church, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You would agree that the only people who have the ability to elect trustees of the Columbia Station Church are the congregational members of the Columbia Station Church?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. You would agree with that?
A. Repeat again.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 16:08

4570 views
Q. Sure. Would you agree that the only people that could elect trustees of the Columbia Station Church are the members of that church.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And, by the way, you would also agree that David Nicholson did not have any power to remove a trustee from Columbia Station Church. He doesn't have that power; does he?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. So for removing a trustee, the only people that can remove a trustee from Columbia Station Church, again, is the members of the congregation, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You can answer.
A. What? Say that again.
MR. KRAUS: Can you read that question again, please?
(Thereupon, a portion of the record was read.)
A. I don't understand that question.
Q. Okay. What don't you understand about that question?
A. About who can remove us from the trustee.
Q. Okay. What part of that question don't you understand? Well, let me ask you, can David Nicholson remove a trustee from Columbia Station? David Nicholson doesn't have the power to do it --
A. No.
Q. -- does he?
A. No.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
16 Jun 2019 16:10

4569 views
Q. The only people that can remove a trustee at Columbia Station is the congregation of that church; you would agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I don't know the answer.
Q. Well, you understand the question; don't you? You've got to answer the question. Your lawyer's objected. The judge will decide whether that's a proper question or not, but you have to answer.
A. They don't have no power, only if we open the church, a meeting in the church, not outside the church.
Q. Okay. Right. So the people that can remove a trustee from the Columbia Station Church are the members of the congregation by voting to remove the trustee; do you agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You have to answer the question.
A. No.
Q. And why do you disagree with that statement?
A. Because the church is closed. We don't have no meeting.
Q. I'm not asking about now. I'm saying before the church was closed, would you agree that the people who could remove a trustee of the Columbia Station Church would be its members; you would agree with that?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I don't know the question. I can't answer.
Q. You say you can't answer. Do you not want to answer the question, or you don't understand the question?
A. I don't understand because I was not there, you know, it was somebody.
Q. I'm not asking about whether you were somewhere or anywhere. I'm just asking your opinion here that trustees can be removed as trustees from the Columbia Station Church if the congregation votes to remove them.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Do you agree with that? What's your answer?
A. I don't know.
Q. Why don't you know?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. Goahead. I don't know that there's a question before you, but --
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. My question is: Can the congregation vote to remove trustees of the Columbia Station Church?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. That's been asked and answered about three times, and he keeps saying no, or he doesn't know.
MR. KRAUS: Quit saying that.
That's not what he did. Just let him answer the question. You can object.
A. I'm not -- I don't understand what to say.
Q. Trustees of Columbia Station Church are appointed by election of the church members, correct? You already said that.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection to the time frame. With this exhibit, it happened a different -- it was a different point in time that it changed.
MR. KRAUS: Okay. Really, Monica, if you want to end this deposition because you keep on making these talking objections, and we'll do that. We can go to court and we can do this --
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Kraus -


To CROOKS ,
USA
16 Jun 2019 23:21

4531 views
Hey Petar Stefan, you were very instrumental in using this website back in 2013.....remember all the stuff you wrote about C.S, how about you tell everybody "since you sold C.S church" how much did you sell the church for? and who bought the church? perhaps David Nikolson, Matei Austovinov and your buddies can help you answer these questions since they were very instrumental in helping you to get the deed from Jon Patruz, making you a trustee and withholding church documents, you remember buddy, the meeting where the church member's removed you Petar as a trustee. Do you remember David Nikolson the document you signed SUBJECT TO LEGAL REVIEW.
Perhaps you can sleep better now at night Petar, finally you can pay off your legal debts and whoever else you bribed to help your case.

The 13 number
USA
17 Jun 2019 0:31

4523 views
13 a bad luck number.
Hey Petar Stefan you did not win with God's help, but with the Devils help you did accomplish your wish to destroy the C.S church.

In 2013 you pushed for ministers voting.

In 2013 you slandered the C.S members on this website.

In 06-13-2019 you sold the C.S church.

Why 13th ?

is it true
Australia
17 Jun 2019 22:04

4444 views
so, columbia station church is sold?
on June 13th 2019?
can someone confirm this please?

any ACCN elder
Australia
17 Jun 2019 22:57

4439 views
does anyone think that ANY ACCN elder is going to CARE about this???



CARE?
USA
18 Jun 2019 1:22

4420 views
Because the ACCN elders have done nothing to prevent the sale of the church and since they demanded that the remaining church members give the church to the Stefan's they most likely will not care.

The critical thing to note here is who gains from the sale of the Columbia Station church, and whose hands are involved in the closure, and who supported the bullying and abuse that went on during the entire ordeal.

True
USA
18 Jun 2019 5:48

4387 views
It's true, the church was sold last week.

wondering fr/Canada
Canada
18 Jun 2019 12:20

4347 views
correct me if I'm wrong but this Stefan suddenly does not remember or know if the church membership can vote to remove a trustee? Seems like he's pulling a Ronald Reagan during the Iran Contra hearings from 1987. Me thinks he now realizes something like the truth is closing in on him. Kind of economical with the truth here or selective memory - when the facts are starting to corner him. Hopefully the sale of the church results in the equitable dist'n of monies to those who invested in this venture or their inheritors.

yes you are correct
Australia
18 Jun 2019 12:56

4343 views
re.
correct me if I'm wrong but this Stefan suddenly does not remember or know if the church membership can vote to remove a trustee?

you are absolutely 100% correct.

he doesn't want to give a direct answer, or avoids the question, hoping he wont be asked again about it.

no inglish, yeah right....

back then it was voted for the removal of trustee's, but when its done the same way, and the outcome is NOT to his likings, then, those members are changing the Nazarene Faith.

What a lot of baloney!!!!

whose rights are ok
Australia
18 Jun 2019 12:59

4339 views
corrupt means:

dishonest and willing to use your position or power to your own advantage, especially for money or materialistic gain....

the trustees get their rights....
(regardless if its morally or ethically correct)
.....by the STATE / GOVERNMENT's rulings, not by the Faith of Jesus Christ,

who do we need to rely on?

the STATE/ GOVERNMENT?
or
on the teaching of Jesus Christ

who do we please
Australia
18 Jun 2019 13:02

4335 views
Colossians 3:23-24

23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,

24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.




attention
Australia
18 Jun 2019 13:05

4332 views
Mister Peter Stefan:

righteous judgment is coming...............

Galatians 5: 10, 12

10: I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

12: I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

God will do this on the last day, if Peter Stefan does not cut off the sin and repent from:
- stealing
&
-covetousness.

Before: 15 Jun 2019
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:02

4322 views
CORRECTION:
A. Right.
Q. And how long did you remain a member of15 that Nazarene Church in Cleveland?
A. I was baptized in December 1976. And 17 '77, we walk out as a group.
Q. Not to confuse you, did you leave that church in 1977 or 1987?
A. No. This first one, 1977.
Q. Okay. So --
A. The Apostolic Christian Church in
Cleveland, 1977.
Q. So in 1969 you started attending the Nazarene Church in Cleveland; is that correct?
That's where you strictly went to services when you first came to Cleveland.
A. I don't go right away. After a few 4 years, you know.


Before: 15 Jun 2019
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:04

4321 views
CORRECTION:
Q. And -- but in 1977 you left that
Cleveland Nazarene Church; is that correct? You left the Cleveland Nazarene Church where you were baptized.
A. No. Apostolic Christian Church, I left.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. Apostolic Christian Church, we left. Not Nazarene.
Q. The church that you were baptized in in 1976, you left that church, correct?
A. Correct.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:10

4319 views
Q. When you say that there was a document that was given to Traian regarding him resigning as a trustee, but he didn't sign it, let me hand you 16 what has been marked as Depo Exhibit 6. Have you seen that document before? Is this the document you were talking about?
A. Yes.
Q. Exhibit 6?
A. That's all I know. That's all I know.
Q. Okay. This was prepared by Dorel, as far as you know?
A. Yes.
Q. And as far as you know Traian refused to sign this; is that correct?
A. Yeah. First he said he want to sign it, but after that, he said no.
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN was marked for identification.)
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Let me hand you what's been marked as Depo Exhibit 7. Can you tell me what that is? Do you know what that document is? Depo 7, Depo Exhibit 7, do you know that document?
A. Yes.
Q. That's the letter from August 29th --
A. Yes.
Q. -- of 2015?
A. Yes.
Q. This is the letter in which you tell the congregation that the church is going to be temporarily closed; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And your signature is on that, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And Traian's signature is on that.
A. Yes.
Q. Right. Okay. So who typed that letter? Who wrote the letter?
A. Dorel Stefan.
Q. Dorel did.
A. Yeah.
Q. Were you with Dorel when he wrote that letter? Don't look at him. If you can remember, if you don't, that's okay. Were you with Dorel when he typed that letter up?
A. No, I was not.
Q. Do you know if Traian was with Dorel when that letter was prepared? Do you know?
A. I know we talking about it.
Q. Okay.
A. I wasn't there either, but we talking about this.
Q. When do you think that letter was prepared? When was it written; do you know?
A. The reason?


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:11

4318 views
Q. When. No. I want to know when it was written.
A. Say again.
Q. When was that letter created, when was it written?
A. August 29th.
Q. Okay. As best as you remember this letter was prepared on August 29th; is that what you recall?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And why was it written? Why was this written -- letter written? What was the reason?
A. To close the church?
Q. Yeah.
A. Because it was difficult to function.
Q. Okay.
A. Traian Mohan and myself, he call us in the church, and Dorel, and that's his own words, he said it's no more. This is not Nazarene Christian no more.
Q. Okay. Are you saying --
A. And --
Q. Go ahead.
A. And that's all he state, and we agreed, all three, that we have to shut down temporary because this is no more Nazarene Christian.
Q. So you're saying the -- that the idea of temporarily closing this church was Traian's? That's where it came from?
A. That's -- he -- that's what he told us.
Q. It --
A. It was all us three.
Q. It was his suggestion that that's what should occur?
A. Yeah. Shut it down.
Q. And you agreed with him, right?
A. I agreed. We all three, we shake hands, because he said, no, the church can't function like this.
Q. I think you answered this when we first started the deposition, but before August 29th, 2015, had you met with a lawyer about the problems in the church? Do you know?
A. In August?
Q. Have you met -- had you met with -- had16 any of you met with a lawyer prior to August 29th, 2015, to discuss closing the church?
A. No.
Q. So -- and as best you recall, the meeting that took place between Dorel, Traian, and you regarding this letter was August 29th, 2015; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And this was at the church? Was it at the church?
A. Yeah. In the church, we talk.
Q. And was it after that meeting that Dorel typed up this letter? He didn't have his computer with him at the church at that time; did he?
A. No.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:13

4317 views
Q. So he had to -- sometime after the meeting he typed this up, correct? Correct?
A. I'm not sure. I don't know. I can't recall.
Q. So this letter says that there was going to be a temporary closure of the church. When was the church going to be reopened, Mr. Stefan?
A. When we find a preacher to preach Nazarene Congregation. This was built for Nazarene Congregation, not for -- we don't believe like this.
Q. How long was the church going to be closed for; do you know?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, you know, the members of the congregation, you locked them out of the church, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Some of the people that I read off that list had been members of the church for many years, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Like Mike Petras, how long has he been a member of the church? Twenty years?
A. I can't answer that. I don't know how long for --
Q. A long time?
A. When we find a preacher who preach the way we believed at Nazarene Congregation, no arguing, no reading different doctrines inside, then we going to reopen and they -- everybody is welcome who abide by the Nazarene Congregation, not bring anything in. This was built for the Nazarene Congregation.
Q. Why did you think you had the right to close this church to all these members who had been paying dues, had been baptized in this church --
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. -- and been members for many years? Why did you think you had the right to close this church?
A. Because it don't function, and no good arguing and fight. We have to close. Traian, he suggest, and I agree with him. We shake hands and we'll see. Because too many of liberal coming into the church, you know, and they go over it, and --
Q. The document that was prepared which says we're temporary closing the church, in the right-hand corner it says August 29th, 2015. The signatures have a different date. Can you look at that for me? What's the date of the signatures? What does that say?
A. Yes. That's when they prepare it. When we --
Q. I'm asking what's the date on the signatures.
A. Yeah. It's not say the same thing, August 29th.
Q. Okay. What's the date on the signatures?
A. It's 9/17.
Q. September 17th, right? Is that Traian's handwriting; do you know? Did he put that date in there?
A. Who?
Q. Traian, did he date his signature?
A. Yeah.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:14

4315 views
Q. That's his -- that's his handwriting --
A. No, I --
Q. -- that says 9/17?
A. No. I don't put his --
Q. I want to know who wrote the date in on this Exhibit 7. This handwritten date, who wrote that in there? Do you know? Did you?
A. No. I don't write this. I write mine.
Q. You didn't write 9/17 on there; did you?
A. I write over here. This is mine (indicating).
Q. You signed this document. That's your signature on that line. It says Petar Stefan, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Where it says 9/17/2015, that's not your handwriting; is it?
A. That's not mine?
Q. Yeah. I'm asking you, is that your handwriting?
A. That's mine.
Q. Okay. So you wrote 9/17 --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- 2015?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you wrote that on September 17th, 2015? That's when you wrote that in? That's the day you wrote that date in, 9/17?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And did you see Traian write in 9/17/2015 after his name? Did he do that?
A. Oh, he signed -- he come over to my house. He signed.
Q. I'm asking, that's Traian's signature, you've seen that before, right? Right?
A. Yes.
Q. The date, 9/17/2015, that's not his handwriting; is it?
A. He signed. I don't know. He signed this.
Q. You're not answering my question.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Where it says 9/17/2015 after Traian Mohan's signature, that's not Traian's handwriting; is it?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. You don't know. Okay, but we do know that the day after September 17th, 2015 you were at the lawyer's office signing paperwork, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And we also know that before 9/17/2015 that you and Dorel had met with a lawyer regarding closing the church, right?
A. Before?
Q. Yeah. Before 9/18 when you signed the paperwork you had already met with the lawyer, right, before that date?
A. First time I went to the lawyer it was 11 September 18 of '15. That's the first time, all of us, all three of us.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:16

4313 views
Q. Okay. I'm now very confused because earlier today, like this morning, I asked you a question, had you met with the lawyer before September 18th, 2015, and you said --
A. No.
Q. -- yes.
A. But I don't understand the question.
Q. Are you changing your mind now?
A. I don't -- no, I didn't.
Q. Okay.
A. I don't see her.
Q. Okay. So you've changed your answer to that earlier question; is that true? Are you changing your mind now?
A. That's true because I don't see her. I don't met her.
Q. Okay.
A. All three going, we meet the same day, same thing.
Q. Let me ask you a question. So the first time you had any contact with the lawyer, Monica Russell, was on September 18th, 2015; is that your testimony?
A. That's correct.
Q. You didn't talk to her over the phone? You hadn't had any email?
A. No.
Q. This was the first time you met --
A. First time.
Q. And she had this document already prepared for you; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. So when you came in the office she already had a document ready for your signature; is that true?
A. That's true.
Q. Okay. So someone had to have talked to her before September 18th, 2015, you would agree with that, right?
A. I don't -- I don't talk. No.
Q. Do you know if Dorel met with her before September 18th, 2015?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know if Traian met with her?
A. I can't say. I can't recall. I don't know.
Q. Would you agree that you had decided before August 29th, 2015, that the church would never reopen as The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene?
A. Yes.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:17

4310 views
Q. Okay. And when you wrote in this letter that the church, which happens to be The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene, that it was only being temporarily closed, that was false.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. It wasn't being temporarily closed. It was never going to reopen as that church, you'd agree with that, wouldn't you?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. Yeah, but we have the name Romanian Nazarene. It's two names.
Q. I'm asking the question, you never intended to reopen this church after you supposedly temporarily closed it. And when you put temporarily closed, that was false.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. On this name?
Q. You already had decided that it was never going to reopen as The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. Nazarene? Repeat again.
Q. Sure. On August 29th, 2015, you wrote a letter -- or signed a letter saying the church was going to be temporarily closed, correct?
A. Right.
Q. Would you agree that you had already decided, you, had already decided that this church would never be reopened as The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene? That decision already had been made in your own mind, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. There's no foundation.
MR. KRAUS: He can answer that question.
MS. RUSSELL: Not if he doesn't understand it.
MR. KRAUS: But you keep saying he doesn't understand it, but he hasn't said that.
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Kraus -
MR. KRAUS: So stop doing that.
MS. RUSSELL: -- you're confusing him with your leading questions.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Answer the question.
A. We going to reopen as Nazarene Congregation.
Q. Right. So you had already decided that on August 29th that The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene was not going to be reopened. You already decided that in your own mind, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. I don't understand. What?


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:19

4306 views
Q. What don't you understand?
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Kraus, try rephrasing your question. If you give him an open question, he might be able to answer it for you.
MR. KRAUS: Okay. Thank you for your input.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. What don't you understand about my question?
A. That we never reopen. We say never reopen this.
Q. Was it your intention to reopen this church after it was temporarily closed as The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene?
A. The Apostolic Christian Church?
Q. Were you going to reopen this church as it was as The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So when you say this was a temporary closure, that would be false. It wasn't temporary --
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. Mischaracterization.
Q. -- it was a permanent closure; wasn't it?
A. That's not permanent.
Q. The people who were members of The Apostolic Christian Church Nazarene, the names that you acknowledged were members, are they going to be members of the new church?
A. If they want to.
Q. Okay.
A. Abide by the law, what Nazarene Christian will be.
Q. You threw them out of their church.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You locked the doors, you never told them you can be members just as you were members in the old church under the new name, you're still members. Have you told them that?
A. What?
Q. Have you told the people who are members of The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene that they're going to be members of this new named church? Have you told them? Have you sent them a letter, anything?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. We not decided yet. We see what happen.
Q. Why haven't you reopened this church?
A. We're not going to open this because this is different election. It's they bring the liberal in the church. They bring people who don't believe like Nazarene Christian Church. And that's why -- that's why we change, you know, even Mohan, he said in his own words that this is done. It can't be like this no more. We --
Q. Is it your -
A. -- have to do something.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:20

4305 views
Q. Is it your intent to sell this church in Columbia Station? Are you going to sell the church?
A. Say it again.
Q. Are you going to sell the church in Columbia Station; is that what you want to do?
A. No, not to my knowledge.
Q. Did you ever say to Traian after this church was closed that it was your intent to sell the church?
A. That's what he said.
Q. I'm asking you. Did you ever say that to him, that your --
A. I'm --
Q. Let me finish the question. Did you ever say to Traian Mohan, after this church was closed, I'm never going to reopen -- words to the effect that said, I'm never going to reopen this church and I'm going to see that it's sold. Words like that? Did you do that?
A. No.
Q. Was it your intent to sell this church?
A. No.
Q. Now, Traian Mohan claims that you did say that to him.
A. He said that.
Q. Okay. He claims that that's what you told him.
A. He said that.
Q. I'd like you to assume that Traian Mohan claims that after the church had been closed for approximately three weeks or so he asked you to reopen the church. Did that ever happen?
A. He didn't say that after three weeks.
Q. Did he ever ask you to reopen this church?
A. He ask when we did everything, we changed. When I changed the sign, he asked -- he call me on the phone, are you done? I say, I'm done. I'm coming over to the church. And he look at the sign and he said -- I ask -- I ask him, what do you think about the sign? He said, good. That's supposed to be like this. Then we do the -- we hire, you know, Monica to do the deed and we change the name legally, even on the state, everything. And he called on the phone, it's done. He rush. He rush us. Do -- I said, take it easy, we're going to have time. Then one time, and I ask him, somebody was in the church and tried to remove the gate, you know where you have a gate, to lock it? We been on a bank, when he give up the key for the safety box, where the deed was. He don't want it no more. He said he's going to sign that he resign for the trustee. Then, he come in my house. He said --
Q. Let me stop -- let me stop you for a second.
A. Okay.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:22

4304 views
Q. Because I want to get a little sense of --
A. Okay.
Q. -- how this all happened. So you met with Traian sometime before the new paperwork was signed -- filed, changing the name and the deed, which was about September 28th. Does that sound about right to you? If that's what the paperwork says, September 28th?
A. 22, I think.
Q. Okay.
A. I think 22, 18, right there.
Q. Okay.
A. I think 22.
Q. But before that happened you're saying --
A. Or 28 maybe.
Q. You're saying that you saw Traian at the church and you asked him about the sign, correct? Is that what happened?
A. Say again.
Q. Sometime between September 18th and maybe September 22, did you change the sign of the church?
A. No. After.
Q. Okay.
A. After we done everything, when we18 receive the deed and everything.
Q. Okay. All right. So -- and are you saying -- where did this meeting take place where Traian says I resign as trustee, where did it take place, the meeting that -- where he told you I resign. Where were you when you had that conversation?
A. I don't -- he don't talk to me. He call Dorel.
Q. Okay. So you're telling me that he said he resigned as trustee? Is that a conversation you had with Traian, or Dorel had with Traian?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. Say again.
Q. Who did Traian say that he resigned as trustee of the church?
A. To Dorel.
Q. You weren't part of that conversation?
A. I was not.
Q. Okay.
A. They talk on the phone. I was not.
Q. Okay. So let's talk about -- you say that he said to Dorel that he had resigned from the church. Did he ever say to you after the name had been changed, after the deed had been changed, we need to reopen the church or anything like that?
A. He said.
Q. Okay. Tell me about that conversation. Was that conversation with you?
A. With me.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:23

4303 views
Q. Okay. Tell me when that conversation took place.
A. There was -- I don't know the date, but I know it was Sunday, Sunday morning. I was in bed at 6:00 and he called me and my wife picked up the phone, and he called me.
Q. I'm listening.
A. And he said, I'm going to go -- he said, I'm going to go reopen the church because Matthew Matei, he said, call him and they scare him and somebody else. That's his words he said to me. I don't want to go to jail. I don't want to lose my house. And I don't want you to go in jail and lose your house. And Monica is going to be -- take the license from her because she don't know what she's doing. And he said, I'm going to go open the church. And I told him, don't do it because you promise, we shake hands before God, not like this, before God with the holy kiss in the church. I said -- and even he said to me, don't move one inch from here. And I promised to him. And after we done all this work, all this, he said, I resign.
Q. Tell me what else he said in this conversation. What else was said? He told you that he had been threatened somehow?
A. Yes.
Q. He said that Monica, and he's referring to Monica Russell, is going to lose her license?
A. That's what he said. That's his own words.
Q. He claimed that -- he knew also he wanted to resign from the church.
A. He don't tell me.
Q. Or from the -- that was another conversation.
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And you say this took place on a Sunday morning, it was early.
A. I was in bed. I was still in the bed. I was sleeping
Q. Okay.
A. I was shocked when I received the call.
Q. I want you to assume for the purpose of this question that Traian Mohan denies that any such conversation took place with you. He denies it categorically. Assume that's the case. Does that make him a liar?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. He don't say the truth then. I speak the truth. I'm not worry about this. I'm telling what he told me. My wife talk to him, too. She's crying on the phone. I was crying.
Q. Tell me about the -- why were you crying?
A. Because he put us in such a position.
Q. What position is that?
A. Look, before you.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:24

4301 views
Q. So if Traian Mohan categorically denies that he had such conversations with you on Sunday morning as you just testified to, would he be not telling the truth?
A. He didn't tell the truth.
Q. Okay. Okay. When you went to see the attorney about closing the church and what action was taken, you already knew that the congregation had voted to remove you as a trustee. You knew that.
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
A. Not until I receive the letter from them.
Q. Right.
A. From the --
Q. That was before you met with the lawyer. You knew that action had been taken against you, Dorel, and Traian by the congregation, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
/ / /
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You can answer. Yes?
A. I knew to the letter. I was not in person over there.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. I was not there in person.
Q. So you had knowledge that when you went to see the lawyer about closing the church that the congregation had voted to remove you as trustee?
A. No. I don't know about the congregation. I know only about the -- I know only about the -- those three elders --
Q. Okay.
A. -- committee. What they send us letter.
Q. And the letter that you received from the elder committee informed you that you were no longer a trustee because the congregation had taken that action, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. And you also know that the congregation had taken action to remove Traian as a trustee --
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. -- in that same correspondence.
A. I don't know that.
Q. You don't know that?
A. No. I don't know.
MR. KRAUS: Let's take a break for five minutes.
(Thereupon, there was a brief recess.)
Q. So you closed the church on August 29th, 2015, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You changed the locks; is that correct?
A. Yes.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:25

4299 views
Q. Did you collect the members' personal property from the church at that time or shortly thereafter?
A. After.
Q. Okay. After that?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. And you've never told the members of The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene that the church is reopened and they're welcome to come back? That hasn't happened, has it?
A. Until now?
Q. Yeah.
A. No.
Q. Okay. You knew shortly after you closed the church that there was going to be a meeting at -- of the congregation on September 12th to discuss the closing of the church? You were aware of that? That was the letter you received from the elder committee, correct? You've seen that letter, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You saw it before you saw the lawyer on September 18th, correct?
A. 18th, yeah.
Q. Right. So you knew about the meeting that was going to take place back on September 12th back on September 2nd, correct?
A. Not that -- only I know. Nicholson call me that Saturday afternoon. He call me on the phone, Dave Nicholson.
Q. Okay. You've seen the letter from the elder committee advising you that there was going to be a meeting on September 12th, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You've seen that letter, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you knew -- and there was another letter on September 9th, again, from the elder committee that said that you're going to be disciplined as a result of closing the church. Do you remember that letter? You saw that letter, too?
A. For the committee?
Q. Yes, for the committee.
A. Yeah, I saw it.
Q. Okay. So let's go ahead and mark these letters.
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibits 8 & 9 to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN were marked for identification.)
MS. RUSSELL: Do I have copies of these?
MR. KRAUS: Yeah.
BY MR. KRAUS:


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:28

4297 views
Q. I'm going to hand you what's been marked as Deposition Exhibit 8 and If you can look at those.
A. Yeah, I saw these.
Q. So you saw both Exhibit 8 and Exhibit 9? These are letters from the elder committee before you met with the lawyer on September 18th; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And on September 12th you received a call from Dave -- David Nicholson, Elder Nicholson; is that correct?
A. Say again.
Q. On September 12th did you talk to Elder Nicholson?
A. Yeah, he called me on the phone.
Q. Tell me about that conversation.
A. See over here (indicating) this, sign all three names by himself.
Q. Okay.
A. Yeah.
Q. So he called you, Elder Nicholson called you the morning of September 12th when this meeting was supposed to take place; is that correct? He called you?
A. Yes.
Q. Elder Nicholson?
A. Yes.
Q. The day the September 12th meeting was taking place, correct?
A. He said -- he called me to go there.
Q. He told you to go to the meeting?
A. Yeah. He said I -- let me --
Q. Go ahead. What happened?
A. He said -- he called me Uncle Pete. Uncle Pete, the September 12th, the committee put in 12 -- September 12th to have a meeting in our church in Columbia Station Church. And he said, can you open? I said, I'm not going to open until you call Mohan and Dorel. I'm not going to do by myself because we're three all agree. He then said, well, he said, no, I'm not going to call Mohan. I'm not going to call your son.
Q. Okay. What else was discussed about it?
A. Then we discuss about it. What I said, who is there? And went to the church. Who's in the meeting? The committee's there? He said no, but the committee's running -- who is -- how they not there? He said, one of the things in Yugoslavia, Europe, one have something to do, and the other don't come. And I asked him again. Who's there? Because I don't come. He said Matei Augustinov and Popoych is. And I told him I'm not coming.
Q. Okay.
A. I'm not coming. I don't know this. They are not our elders. And I'm not going to come over there.
Q. Did Dave Nicholson -- David Nicholson also tell you that the congregation was going to be at this meeting? He told you that, didn't he?
A. No.
Q. So he didn't --
A. He told us to go to talk to us, the committee.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:30

4295 views
Q. Okay. So as far as you know the September 12th meeting, you didn't know that the congregation was meeting that day?
A. I was going to say they were -- I don't -- he might -- he -- I don't know the day he said that. He said that they wanted to talk to us, you know, to both parties, you know, like separate, but I don't know other about meeting. I don't know.
Q. Well, we can agree that you, Dorel, and Traian did not go to any church meeting either with the elder committee or the congregation on September 12th, 2015?
A. Yes, absolutely.
Q. But after September 12th, 2015, you were aware that there was a meeting with the congregation? Afterwards?
Q. Yes.
A. Yeah. You hear -- you hear by mouth say. Yeah, you hear that.
Q. And you knew that before September 18th when you saw the lawyer that the -- in that meeting on September 12th that you had been removed by vote as trustee of the Columbia Station Church? You knew that?
A. I didn't accept it. They are not our --
Q. I --
A. -- elders.
Q. I understand you didn't agree with that, but when you went to see the lawyer on September 18th, 2015, you knew that the congregation had voted to -
A. No.
Q. -- remove you as trustee?
A. No. Not the congregation. I knew only this three, those three. I --
Q. You had no --
A. -- didn't know this.
Q. You had no knowledge that the --
A. No, no.
Q. -- congregation was going to do this? Okay.
A. Afterwards I heard about it. They vote they want to have us thrown out. I don't know.
Q. So did there come a time where you did learn that the congregation voted to remove you as a trustee? Did there come a time when you learned that you had been voted to be removed as trustee of the church in Columbia Station? Did you learn about that?
A. Like what?
Q. Did you find out that they had taken a vote and removed you as trustee?
A. I heard about it, yeah.
Q. Okay. When did you hear about it?
A. Just like you said, like I said, they vote us. I --
Q. Did you hear about it --
A. I was not there.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:32

4294 views
Q. Who called you and told you that this vote had taken place? Who told you?
A. I heard. I heard.
Q. Who'd you hear it from?
A. From people.
Q. Which people?
A. I don't know exactly which. A lot of people talking now.
Q. Well, who do you remember hearing it from?
A. I don't know exactly, but some people told me it was.
Q. When you say "some people" --
A. Yes.
Q. -- what names do you recall? Was it Mike Petras?
A. No.
Q. Who would it be?
A. Not these people. From the other church, from West Akron.
Q. Okay. So someone from the other church --
A. From the other church. No from them, I don't get nothing.
Q. Who was talking? Okay. Who did you hear it from at the other church that you had been removed as trustee by vote of the congregation on September 12th?
A. I don't know exactly. I don't know this. Who --
Q. Well, give me a name. Who do you remember talking to?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, who do you know from West Akron?
A. I know. I have few brothers or friends.
Q. Well, who are we talking about? Who would be your friends that would tell you about the vote where you were removed as trustee?
A. I don't know who it is. I don't know it. I --
Q. You don't know their names?
A. I don't know whose name in Akron because, you know, it's --
Q. Who are your friends at the West Akron Church? Who are your friends at the West Akron Church?
A. Who is?
Q. Yeah. Who are they? What's their names?
A. Ed Botoshon, Nick Botoshon.
Q. Nick?
A. Botoshon.
Q. Can you tell his last name?
A. Yeah. "B" in Botoshon, his brother.
Q. Spell his last name for me.
A. I don't know how to spell it.
Q. Well, say it slowly.
A. Botoshon.
Q. Botoshon.
A. Yeah.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:33

4293 views
Q. This Nick Botoshon, he's a friend of yours from West Akron. Who else?
A. I can't name all of them. I don't know.
Q. I just want to know the ones that told you that you were removed --
A. Oh, I don't know. They don't tell me. I hear. They don't -- I -- that is my friend. I don't hear from them.
Q. Okay. Did Dave Nicholson talk to you after the September 12th meeting and tell you that you've been removed as trustee?
A. No.
Q. Never happened?
A. Never happened.
Q. Okay. Did you talk to -- after the September 12th, 2015 meeting and before you met with the lawyer on September 18th, 2015, did Traian Mohan tell you that I heard that we've been removed as trustees by a vote of the congregation? Do you remember talking to him about that?
A. Yeah, we talking.
Q. Okay.
A. We hear.
Q. Okay. So it's fair to say that when you saw the lawyer on September 18th, you knew that the congregation had voted to remove you, Dorel, and Traian Mohan as the trustees of The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene in Columbia Station, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You knew that?
A. Before? No.
Q. Before September 18th when you saw this lawyer you knew that you've been removed as a trustee?
A. I can't recall. I don't, like, hear right away. I hear after.
Q. All right. Okay. So how did Dorel, in your opinion, become a trustee of The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene in Columbia Station? How does he become a trustee?
A. He is not on Apostolic Christian. He is in a Nazarene Congregation become a trustee, not in this.
Q. How did he become a trustee of that named church?
A. We, me and Mohan, we decide to put him because he is young, you know? And all three of them to be trustee. And we agree, all three of them.
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 10 to the deposition of PETAR STEFAN was marked for identification.)
MS. RUSSELL: Do you have a copy?


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:36

4291 views
MR. KRAUS: It's the resolution that was created in your office.
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. Stefan, I'm going to advise you about attorney-client privilege. He's going to be talking to you about the resolution you signed at my office. Keep in mind that any communications you and I had or that I had with you and Mr. Mohan and Dorel at my office are protected by attorney-client privilege. So if the question asks for information that we discussed, just tell him you discussed something with your attorney, and I can object, but don't talk about what we actually discussed. Do you understand?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay. But you just -- you don't have to testify about anything we discussed.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Did you ever tell anybody before September 18th, 2015 that you wanted to sell the Columbia Station Church? Anybody?
A. No.
8 Q. Do you think the church should be sold?
9 Do you think that church should be sold?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Who are the members of the church now?
A. We are.
Q. Excuse me? Who are the members of the church under the new name?
A. My son, me, my wife, and his wife, and Mohan. Mohan was with us, and he stepped down.
Q. Do you agree all the other people who were members under the old name are still members of the church under the new name?
A. Not the way like this. No.
Q. Why are they no longer members?
A. No. Not this way. We --
Q. Is there some document that you gave to the members of The Apostolic Christian Church-Nazarene that they're no longer members that the church they supported and paid for and served all those years is no longer open to them, other than the fact you said you were temporarily closing?
A. Under the new name, they can, but they got to listen and obey the rules.
Q. Okay. Who do they have to listen and obey to?
A. To the church.
Q. Okay. And who is the --
A. The order -- what orders in the church, you have to obey.
Q. Okay. And are you the person who makes those decisions?
A. No. The church made the decision.
Q. Which church?
A. Us, even two, three, that's what this is, two, three. That's a church.
Q. So really you did more than just change the name of the church, you changed the whole membership of the church when you gave it a new name, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
A. I don't change them.
Q. Well, you're not allowing the members who were members under the old name to come back in, are you?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:37

4290 views
Q. If they wanted to come back to the church, would you have stopped them from coming in?
A. It's not going to be old church, it's going to be the new church, new.
Q. Okay. So you -- it's not that you just changed the name, would you agree that you've created a whole new church, in your own mind, correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. This is a new church in your own mind?
A. It's not -- it's not all new. This Nazarene sign exist from the beginning.
Q. Right, but you've eliminated all the members of the old -- that were members of the church under the old name?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
Q. They're not allowed back into your church unless they do something else, right? They have to promise they're going to obey and do various things?
A. I promise to obey, too.
Q. Okay.
A. I promise when I go to the church, I promise to -- when I go to Cleveland Church Romanian, I promise I'm going to obey, you know. I'm going to make no problem in the church.
Q. So if Dimetri Popoych says I want to go the new church, are you going to let him come in?
A. Sure. Okay.
Q. Okay.
A. Only on the new -- on the new orders, not on the old ones.
Q. Okay. I'm going to hand you what's been marked as Deposition Exhibit Number 10.
MS. RUSSELL: Is there a question?
MR. KRAUS: He's looking at the document.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay. Well --
MR. KRAUS: I'm not going to rush him if he wants to look at the document.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Have you seen that document before? Have you seen that document before?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. What is that document, Depo Exhibit 10, what is it?
A. The resolution.
Q. And that's the resolution that was waiting for you when you went to the lawyer's office on September 18th, 2015; is that correct?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. You can answer.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you signed that September 15th?
A. Yes.
Q. I'm sorry, September 18th --
A. 18th.
Q. -- 2015?
A. Yes.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:38

4288 views
Q. Do you know if Traian Mohan had been given a copy of this document before he went to the lawyer's office that day; do you know?
A. I don't know. He knows.
Q. Okay.
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay.
A. I know I get one.
Q. Had you seen a copy of this before September 18th, 2015, before you went to the lawyer's office?
A. I don't know.
Q. You're not sure?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Is it possible you did see a copy of this before September 18th, 2015; is that what you're saying, or you don't know?
A. I don't know. I don't --
Q. Okay. Would you agree that when you and Traian Mohan and Dorel went to the lawyer's office on September 18th, 2015, you had already heard that the congregation of the church had voted to remove all three of you as trustees?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection. Asked and answered at least four times. He said no every time.
A. I don't know. I don't hear nothing that -- no.
Q. Before you signed the document on September 22nd with the name change, would you agree that before you signed that document you knew that the congregation had voted to remove you and Traian as trustees of the church?
A. I'm not sure. I don't think.
Q. You're not sure?
A. I'm not sure.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:39

4287 views
Q. Did you go to the lawyer's office on September 22nd and sign that document?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And did you go back on another date to sign the deed?
A. Yes.
Q. Was that on or about September 28th, does that sound right to you, or sometime later?
A. 28th or 22.
Q. I'm talking about the deed. The deed is dated September 28th, 2015. Would you have gone back to the lawyer's office on that day to sign it?
A. Yes.
Q. All the documents that you signed that were prepared by the lawyer, that was done at the lawyer's office, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And would you agree that when you signed the deed quit claiming the church to the new name church that you knew that the congregation had voted to remove you as a trustee? You certainly knew by September 28th, didn't you?
MS. RUSSELL: Objection.
BY MR. KRAUS:
Q. Did you know?
A. No.
Q. When did you first learn that the9 congregation had voted to remove you as a trustee of the church? Do you remember?
A. Very -- I don't go to the churches no more. I don't go. I don't drive to those churches, the liberal churches. I don't go, so I don't have no conversation with them.
Q. Okay. That's not my question. I'm asking you, did there come a time that you learned that -- before this lawsuit was filed did there come a time when you had learned that the congregation had voted to remove you as a trustee?
A. Later, yeah. Late.


To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
18 Jun 2019 14:40

4285 views
Q. Okay. Would --
A. I don't know the exact date.
Q. Okay.
A. I don't know the exact day --
Q. Was it --
A. -- you know.
Q. Was it after September 28th?
A. Probably.
Q. Why do you say it was after September 28th?
A. Because the rumor. It goes here, here, and you hear about it.
Q. Okay. That's all the questions I have right now.
MR. KRAUS: We're not going to have time for Dorel, it's just not going to happen. Now maybe we'll have a --
MS. RUSSELL: I was just talking to him about what other day could work for him.
MR. KRAUS: Yeah. Maybe we'll have a couple minutes before 4:30. I know you guys gotta get out of here, and we can try to get another date, and we'll talk about some other things. Well, let's complete your deposition right now. So, you have a right to have this transcript of your deposition typed up so you can review it to make sure it's accurate, or you can waive your signature. Is that not right?
MS. RUSSELL: He's not going to waive.
MR. KRAUS: Okay.
MS. RUSSELL: We'll read.
MR. KRAUS: So there's no waiver, that's fine. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Stefan.
THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
- - - (DEPOSITION CONCLUDED.) - - -


who sold the church
Australia
18 Jun 2019 23:30

4229 views
what are you Mister Peter Stefan going to say on the following comments by you:

Q. Is it your intent to sell this church in Columbia Station? Are you going to sell the church?
A. Say it again.
Q. Are you going to sell the church in Columbia Station; is that what you want to do?
A. No, not to my knowledge.
Q. Did you ever say to Traian after this church was closed that it was your intent to sell the church?
A. That's what he said.
Q. I'm asking you. Did you ever say that to him, that your --
A. I'm --
Q. Let me finish the question. Did you ever say to Traian Mohan, after this church was closed, I'm never going to reopen -- words to the effect that said, I'm never going to reopen this church and I'm going to see that it's sold. Words like that? Did you do that?
A. No.
Q. Was it your intent to sell this church?
A. No.

who sold the church?

Trian Mohan or Peter Stefan?

taking action
Australia
18 Jun 2019 23:38

4227 views
re.
A. -- committee. What they send us letter.
Q. And the letter that you received from the elder committee informed you that you were no longer a trustee because the congregation had taken that action, correct?
A. Correct.

if this is so, then the committee elders where with the remaining members.

why was it then, that the committee elders took action to punish the remaining members?

something doesn't make sense!!

the committee elders advise peter stefan that he was removed as trustee, meaning, they were in align with the remaining members as the CHURCH, not peter stefan, dorel stefan or trian mohan

why did the committee elders then change?



did they ever know
Australia
18 Jun 2019 23:57

4223 views
re.
Q. So you closed the church on August 29th, 2015, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You changed the locks; is that correct?
A. Yes.

what does the Bible say on this act?

John 16:
2. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

whoever does this act, did they ever know God?

The ACCN side (Gicanov side) in Novi Sad, Serbia locked the church doors to the Doroslovac side back in the 1945-50's
and
Now in the year 2015, the same act has been repeated in Columbia Station, USA.


Matthew 7:
21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

can you see the wording in verse 23...."I never knew you:...."



No fear of God.
USA
19 Jun 2019 1:40

4211 views
Every one should know that Peter and Dorel ?tefan never could sell the church if they didn't have David Nikolson and ACCN elders on their side and David was the main tool to split the church in 2011 and then he went after John Petruts to take all the documents from him and remove him from the ministry and punished the poor guy to get all the church documents. David Nikolson had many many many faces to each person he was saying different stories and from David Nikolson you will never hear the truth,,, To be a good lier David should remember the last lies he said but David lost his tracking for lies and he became a big bad lier just to win and sold the church with Dorel and Peter.
To David Nikolson : remember David when you say in west Akron church if the Petar sells the church he bus a one way ticket to hell and you consider Petar and his wife is just like Anania and Zafira, you David talked against Petar but you are with them and you helped them all the way and today you are still with them.
David Peter and Dorel two of you going to the Doroslovat church and you David going to the Brunswick hills church and all of you smiling and laughing how shamefull, how do you guys sleep in night with no fear of God.
David Peter and Dorel and your wife's you all tried very hard with great effort to win hear on earth on this short life, was it worth it $550.000 but then again people commit crimes for nothing.

How can you sleep a night with all these lies.
A true Christian's desire is to win eternal everlasting life, you know running life's race to win a crown of everlasting life.


'projecting'
USA
19 Jun 2019 2:22

4203 views
David used to shout, 'King David' during his sermons a lot. I wonder if he considers himself King David?

As for Stefan's, it's interesting how they accused others, i.e., Peter Oldja, Zula, Misa, Dimitri, etc., for wanting to sell the church to profit from the building. They were plotting and projecting what was in their hearts on to others.

what for
Australia
19 Jun 2019 20:28

4120 views
what was the point in selling the church?
if peter wanted to change the name of the church, you don't need to sell the church to change its name?
what was the reason for the sale?
nobody has benefited with the sale?
nobody has use to the church now, so what was the sale for?
the devil is the only one laughing here.....
can someone explain the reason for the sale?

To: what for
USA
20 Jun 2019 0:05

4084 views
Q. What was the point in selling the church?
A. A little over half a million and revenge because Dorel did not make it in the ministry. His dad, Petar, was furious that his son was not a minister.

excommunicate needed
Australia
20 Jun 2019 0:19

4074 views
and peter and dorel think there's going to be a nazarene church out there that's going to accept them now??????

this has gone worldwide, and everyone is talking about it.

the Doroslovac elders have been advised, and have decided they will not accept them.

the accn elders have punished them for closing the church.

we just need to find elders that will excommunicate them now.

that's the only real thing left, unless they repent from their sin of:
- stealing
- covetousness
- jealousy
- hatred
- lying
- rebellion


To: above
USA
20 Jun 2019 0:24

4071 views
... the accn elders have punished them for closing the church.

The ACCN elders said they could sell the church.
The ACCN elders demanded that the remaining members give the church to the Stefans.
The ACCN elders supported them.

The ACCN elder share Stefan's sin.

abuse!!!
USA
20 Jun 2019 0:27

4069 views
What about abusing the elderly and the children?

They not only abused the most vulnerable population they also violated human rights.

really possible???
Australia
20 Jun 2019 0:32

4067 views
re.
Q. So you closed the church on August 29th, 2015, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You changed the locks; is that correct?
A. Yes.

how can someone do something like this?

does Gods Church belong to a person?

whose belongings is the Church?

Ps.94:
7. Yet they say, The LORD shall not see, neither shall the God of Jacob regard it.
9. He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see?

Colossians 3:5
..........and covetousness, which is idolatry:

covetousness means:
really wanting to have something that belongs to someone else.


Revenge
USA
20 Jun 2019 1:23

4059 views
He can revenge all he wants, he will still NEVER be a minister. So there you go.

To the comment about Doroslovci in Novi Sad, we will see if Doroslovac church accepts Dorel and Petar. If they do, then you should agree with it since Doroslovci are better. You also support thieves and liars.

not better
Australia
20 Jun 2019 1:31

4052 views
they are not better if they support thieves or liars.



Accept
USA
20 Jun 2019 1:31

4051 views
Doroslovac church will accept them eventually. You will see. Especially if they offer them some of the money from the sale. Or they will say, we gave every last penny to charity, we didnt keep ANYTHING from the sale. And Doroslovac will say, oh, well then there is no sim, welcome to the membership. You will see.

greed and hate
USA
20 Jun 2019 2:32

4031 views
If you want the reason for sale the church, you have to ask David Nikolson, but make sure you don't ask him in private because he tends to lie and his story changes each time depending on who he is speaking with and who you are. So please, ask David Nikolson in front of witnesses.

David Nikolson caused the split in 2011. He chased Jon Petruc for all the church documents and punished him until he gave them up - (he died under punishment). Then David Nikolson registered Dorel as an agent without the church's knowledge - this was in 'secret.'

Dorel and Peter Stefan then worked hard to kick each member out, especially (the sisters) the ones that they knew were never going to vote for Dorel as a minister.

During the process of kicking members out, they used Misha and Mike Petras to fix the church to ensure everything was according to their satisfaction both on the inside and outside. After the church projects were completed, Petar and Dorel moved onto their big plan with David Nikolson to sell the church.

The remaining members were kicked out of Columbia Station and threatened that if they set one foot on the premises, they would be arrested by police.

In July 2017 a meeting was held in Strongsville City Hall where Peter and Dorel's lawyer tried to change the zone so a Tractor Supply company could buy the property for $900,000.

David Nikolson was the one who registered Dorel and Petar Stefan as an agent without the church's approval.

When the Tractor Supply company deal fell through the church was still on the market with the price dropping - they finally sold the church for $550,000.

David Nikolson, Peter, and Dorel Stefan with their wives and can blame everyone and try to justify their actions, but at the end of the day, there was no reason for selling the church. Just greed and hate.

God sees everything, and there is no secret in front of God.

The Chronicle
USA
20 Jun 2019 11:47

3982 views
Columbia Township Trustee clarifies issue on today's ballot
Carissa Woytach
By Carissa Woytach | The Chronicle-Telegram
Published on May 8, 2018 | Updated 8:34 a. m.

Mike-Musto-cand-Lor-Co-Commissioner-jpg

Mike Musto

CHRONICLE FILE



Comments
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During the Columbia Township Board of Trustees meeting Monday night, Trustee Mike Musto took time after department reports to clarify the referendum on today’s ballot.

Issue 11 is a referendum by petition to change the zoning at 23295 Royalton Road back to residential. The property, home to an obsolete Nazarene Church, was rezoned to be a highway business district, per the township’s master plan. The rezoning went through the township’s zoning commission and board, with a public hearing for each, and was passed without incident.

“I want to set some things straight that have been said over the past three or four weeks,” Musto explained. “This zoning change went to the board of zoning, and then the trustees and to the county.”

Musto said the rezoning had two public hearings, with little public comment other than a few questions. It would have allowed Tractor Supply Company to build on that lot, which would have catered to farmers in the area. But once the referendum came up, TSC moved to another property in the township. The rezoning also is part of the comprehensive plan, which was approved by the residents.

“Our comprehensive plan has (state) Route 82 as highway business … this wasn’t something that we dreamt up out of the blue, this was something that was a plan that has been in place (since 2010).”

TSC would not have been the only business on Route 82, as there is a golf course across the street. And according to Musto, the owner of the golf course is who brought the petition for the referendum. And Musto said he thinks there was a conflict of interest when the petition was presented to the Board of Elections, as the attorney, Gerald Phillips, represented the petition while working for the township.

“In my opinion — and it’s my opinion, not the board’s — Gerald Phillips worked for us at the time, still actually does, he’s employed by Columbia Township, he has a conflict of interest, as far as I’m concerned,” Musto said. “He actually represented to bring a lawsuit against Columbia Township while he was representing us.”

That conflict of interest is yet to be determined, as Phillips denies it, according to Musto.

“I’m not telling you to vote for it or against it, but I think it’s important that you know all the facts,” Musto said. “And that’s the facts as I know them.”



RE: “Our comprehensive plan has (state) Route 82 as highway business … this wasn’t something that we dreamt up out of the blue, this was something that was a plan that has been in place (since 2010).”

since 2010, that's the exact time C.S troubles started!




The Chronicle
USA
20 Jun 2019 11:49

3981 views
Issue 11: Columbia Township Zoning Referendum
Christina Joliffe | The Chronicle-Telegram
Published on April 29, 2018

Issue-11-jpg

A May 8 referendum seeks to prevent the rezoning of the parcel that hosts this vacant church in Columbia Township.

KRISTIN BAUER / CHRONICLE



Comments
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COLUMBIA TWP. - A hodgepodge of zoning - residential, commercial, highway business - lines state Route 82 in the township and beyond, but a recommendation to rezone a parcel where a church sits has residents calling for a stop to the rezoning.

Issue 11 is a referendum by petition asking that the zoning for the land remain as it is: residential.

The issue is seemingly moot for the moment.
Issue 11
What it is: A referendum by petition on a zoning amendment
Purpose: To stop a parcel of land from being rezoned to highway business

The defunct Nazarene Church, 23295 Royalton Road, had a property buyer, but the land needed to be rezoned to highway business for the deal to go through. The rezoning process was started, but once the petition came about, the business, Tractor Supply, withdrew its offer and established a different locale in the township.

The land went back up for sale, yet the referendum remains.

Trustee Dick Heidecker is disappointed about the events.

"We made everything public knowledge," he said. "The referendum came at the last minute. There had been no public grumblings before it."

Other township officials also were taken aback by the petition.

"Myself, I'd like it to be zoned highway business," Trustee Mike Musto said. "The Comprehensive Plan we put together, which surveys the residents, states they would like it to be zoned highway business. That plan has been in place for quite a while. A good business wanted to buy the property that wasn't industrial, but this petition came up."

The vacant church property brings in no revenue to the township, Musto said. The proposed business would have brought in property tax money and would have been a good fit for the area, he said.

"There's not going to be a big box store there," he said. "There isn't going to be a Target. It's going to have to be zoned highway business or neighborhood business."

Neighborhood businesses include banks, drug stores, florists, hardware stores, restaurants without a drive-through, instructional studios and similar small stores.

Of course, the property owner always could sell to another church and the zoning would remain.

Trustees will not actively pursue any zoning change. Ultimately, it depends on any future buyers of the property.

"I favor some type of commercial zoning on 82," Musto said. "There are still a number of residential homes there, but as things change and there is an influx of new housing on the side roads, the main road should be commercial, not residential."

Trustee Mark Cunningham agrees.

"It makes sense for 82 and state Route 252 to be commercial," he said. "That part of 82 already is zoned for business, and that's where Tractor Supply was going to go. I was kind of surprised by the referendum. We have rezoned areas of 82 in the past without an issue."

Cunningham is interested to see the outcome of the vote, he said.

"I'll live with whatever the residents vote for," he said.

Across the street from the obsolete church, which has been vacant a number of years, is the Royal Crest Golf Club.

Zoning Inspector Robert Eichenberg also would like to see most of the township's businesses on state Route 82.

"The plan has always been to make most of that commercial on Royalton Road," he said. "There already were a ton of businesses there before zoning existed."

And, as more businesses come, zoning changes likely will follow.

Tractor Supply may not be moving into where the church is, but the business still is coming to the township, just a little farther down the road.

"Tractor Supply wanted to buy that property," Eichenberg said. "The church was willing to sell it. Tractor Supply pulled out and located where it already was zoned highway business."

Coincidence??
Australia
20 Jun 2019 16:14

3951 views
Columbia station: Petras and all others pay for church and Petras' maintain building (in & out)
Peter (father) & Dorel (son) sell Columbia station and keep the $$money$$
Peter Stefan said he's going to give some of that money to those who first formed Columbia Station.
••will the money go to those people and when?

Laverton: people worked, paid for and maintained this church.
Stefanidis' Janko (father) sells Laverton....& John & George (sons) are all joined in holding that money together in an account in Melbourne Australia.
Janko stefanidis said he was going to donate all that money to a church in need, Serbia or wherever. They've had the money for many years earning interest.

••will the money go to a needy church/s and when?

Father and son/s crimes. God help us all to stay away from these kind of so called Christians

Oh did I forget to mention: John and Nora Stefanidis and Dorel and Rosie Stefan have been friends for many many years, (before, during and most likely even now,) beforeany of these churches were sold and money kept.

Same on you families!!!!! Shame on you!!!!

devil or God
Australia
20 Jun 2019 18:33

3941 views
the devil in ANY way possible attempts to CLOSE churches, LOCK churches, ELIMINATE churches, make them OBSOLETE.
the devil's desire is exactly this.
does the devil work through me?
or
does God work through me?
God wants to open MORE churches, wants to PROMOTE more churches, wants to encourage MORE dwelling places for CHURCHES.
who has won here?
through whom did God work?
or
through whom did the devil work?

Greed??
USA
20 Jun 2019 23:52

3900 views
Columbia Station and its sale had nothing to do with Greed or Elder Abuse...If the CS members would have just learned to get along this whole fiasco would have never happened. Are we children of God?

To: Greed??
USA
21 Jun 2019 1:07

3884 views
Would confirming Doral Stefan into the ministry solve all C.S church problems?
What would be your suggestions to the C.S church members? What could they have done differently?
What did C.S members do wrong in the whole Fiasco?

And how would you deal with tares or children of darkness?

To: Greed??
USA
21 Jun 2019 5:09

3857 views
There is a pattern here... It is greed!

David Nikolson was involved in two dealerships that both loss over 100 K each. He was in a leadership role for one of the companies and the other affiliated with. David signed a document of guarantee that the auction company would get paid because they had funds. Did they get paid? The answer is NO.

How many families were abused by David Nikolson? What happened to Andre Toth at the Warren church? What about Peter Oldja's family? What about when he said, 'you're next' to a brother in the Columbia Station church? Was that not 'TRAUMA'?

How about the reasons Petar and Dorel Stefan left the Romanian Cleveland church. Did you know that he wanted to be a treasurer and because Moses Magda didn't want to give him that position he slammed the door and left the Romanian church?

What about in 2005 when Dorel Stefan, the treasurer of the Columbia Station church, was involved in the disappearance of over $4000. Did he ever give the money back or justify where those funds went? The answer is NO.

David Nikolson was an abusive elder. He destroyed families for nothing. No other elder came to help. The ACCN elder's just punished those that sought help from them and continued the abuse that David Nikolson and the Stefan's started.

The only way to fix this mistake is for the elders to confess publically and for David Nikolson to never be in a leadership role.

To: Greed??
USA
21 Jun 2019 5:26

3852 views
Are you trying to say the disciple can't handle the 'feasco' and that why Judah sold Jesus????

despicable!
USA
21 Jun 2019 5:28

3851 views
If it weren't for the church, these abusive leaders wouldn't be able to survive the real world because nobody would put up with their abusive behavior, and they would be held accountable for their actions.

faith differences
Australia
21 Jun 2019 13:16

3808 views
what faith differences was in question here that Peter Dorel is talking about the ACCN and the Nazarene teachings and practices?

can anyone explain who is neutral to the issue here?

can we hear the other side of the story too?

if so, can someone explain it.

is it words and no action?
or
is there real differences in question?
if so, what are they?
and
why does a church need to be sold to rectify the differences?

doesnt really make sense as to the issue being resolved by the church sale?

please explain....

if CS was built where Geraldine wasnt sold, yeah?
so....
why was CS needed to be sold for the Stefans to go and open another TRUE NAZARENE church according to THEIR Bible teachings???

something doesnt add up?


Never Satisfied!
USA
22 Jun 2019 12:27

3736 views
Petar Stefan no one did you wrong. No one targeted you or your family. It was you who created discord, mischief, lies, evil imaginations, and divisions. All this for what? Your son didn't get ministry, so you wanted revenge? You held resentment towards brother Jon Petruz because he knocked over the crooked wall that you brick laid during the church construction. Now you knocked down the church that brother Jon built with many church members.

Is your heart at peace now? Is the sale of the church bring you much joy?

Brother Peter Oldja once told you, 'look at you, you are shaking' - are you still shaking? You should be!

Petar, you and your son Dorel Stefan, were impossible to please and deal with. You were never happy, and nothing was ever good enough for you both. That's because you didn't want to stop until you got what you wanted, and that was the entire church building and to destroy church families.


The below is a statement by Petar Stefan, explaining the injustices done in Australia and America churches in 2013. It was taken from this website verbatim. Perhaps this can enlighten the readers of his complaints.


Tue, July 23, 2013 at 10:01 AM


Hocu da pisem da nema nepravde samo u Australiji. Cuo sam sta su radili u Americi, su potvrdili bracu cetiri odjednom. Nisu radili kako je red skupstine nego su skakali preko ograde tamo u Columbia Stations i glasali na papiru. Ovo se nigde nije radilo ovako i to nije volja Boga. Ovaj posao je bio u July 14 2013. Ima tamo jedan Misa Petras koji je pravio puno problema. U Australiju sad dosao da prevari i bracu Rumune samo da bude negov sin sluga. Braco Rumuni pazite.



COMMENT 22 (in Serbian):

Hocu da napisem nekoliko reci za Columbia Station sa Bozijom pomoci hocu da pisem da sta se desilo u Julu 14. kad su potvrdili 4 sluge. Nisu radili kao kad su se primile na probu, su bili glasani na papir i su primili tako i je bilo dobro i nisu rekli da treba sa ustajanjem a sada kad se podvrdili sluge radili kao u Evropi sa ustajanjem posto dve sluge se culo da ako nece da odlazu. Jel Gospod hoce takve sluge da propovedaju Boziju rec? Zalosno je za taj narod koji treba njih da slusa. Ako ocedu kao u Evropu, u Evropu se ne stavu sluge koji nije zenjen. To sta se govori za Columbia Station to je istina u tu skupstinu nikad nise radilo ni sa staresinama ni sa slugama, to je bila prevara. I nisu usli kako treba, nego su skocili preko ograde. Braco iz Colubia Station nijedna skupstina nema takve sluge kao vi sta vi imate. Sta se radilo u Columbia Station nece da se zaboravi dugo. Skinuli stare sluge i postavili nove sluge koji ne znaju da vode Bozji nazarenski narod. I ovo sta pisem ovo je istina i ja poznajem dobro ovu bracu i sestre koji su odlazili i koji su ostali molim ako neko moze da prevede na engleski jezik da svi razumeju.

COMMENT 23:

I'll translate the above comment. This person is commenting to the person who said Nazarenes never voted on paper and its a new tradition. The comment (I'll refer to comment 22 as a "he") says "be consistent". They were voted in on trial WITH BALLOTS, so that means they should be confirmed with ballots. He says 2 of the ministers threatened to leave if they weren't voted on by the "standing up" method. Does God want that kind of minister? If they want to do it like in Europe, then they shouldn't put up single brothers either because they don't do it like that in Europe. He is saying that they jumped over the fence and got in the ministry the wrong way. Brothers in Columbia Station: not one church has ministers like you have. What you did will take a long time to be forgotten. You put up ministers who don't know how to lead God's people. Everything I write here is the truth and I know these brothers very well, the ones who stayed and the ones who left. If someone could please translate this into English so all may understand.

to Peter Stefan
Australia
22 Jun 2019 13:29

3720 views
what a lot of baloney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there is more then one way of doing right.

if the church agrees, with ordaining ministers, that's the main reason in question, not the method of how it was done.

written form, standing up way or voicing your agreement.....thats 3 ways of doing right.

what is the issue here???

nonsense
Australia
22 Jun 2019 19:08

3692 views
re.
If they want to do it like in Europe, then they shouldn't put up single brothers either because they don't do it like that in Europe.

what nonsense!!!!!!!!

Brother Karko Hrubik from Novi Sad, Serbia, is a single brother, and has been ordained, not only to be a minister, he has been recently ordained to be an elder, and he is still a single brother.

what baloney!!!!!

foolish
Australia
22 Jun 2019 22:56

3670 views
was apostle paul single or married?

1 Timothy 1:7
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

whats older, Europe or the word of the Lord?





please explain
Australia
22 Jun 2019 23:56

3660 views
can peter & or dorel explain the faith changes in question here?

i cannot get a grip on what is the differences of the faith between the ACCN and their nazarene way that they are affirming...

can you explain.

braca rumuna...............please explain.

Dorel Stefan 1
USA
24 Jun 2019 2:57

3577 views
Dorel Stefan wrote the following complaining to David Nikolson. None of the text was altered or changed; it is his original text.

This letter was written on August 16, 2015, two weeks before the 'TEMPORARY CLOSURE' per Dorel and Petar Stefan's letter to the remaining church members.

David Nikolson sent this letter to one of the remaining church members - (by chance). It would have been good for David Nikolson to have released all of Dorel Stefan's complaints (emails and text message) as requested by the attorney instead of him withholding them. It is still not late David Nikolson to share these letters and texts messages publically so people can be informed as to why Dorel Stefan held this church and its members hostage for so long and to understand his state of mind.


__________________________
8-16-15 Columbia St – Events that occurred on this day
Church was told by George Zula last week that our Elder Dave Nikolson from Akron was coming for a visit. In the morning on this day, George re-affirmed that Elder Dave was coming for a visit. The truth was that Elder Dave was coming to hold a meeting and told Zula to relay that to the church but Zula didn’t so that the agenda of his group would be hidden to the last moment and that the group which Zula and his group is spreading accusations against would possibly not be present when the meeting takes place.

Misha Petras
1) Makes accusation that “Dorel caused so many problems for Peter Oldja that he put him in his grave”.
2) Stated during the meeting “that Dorel is the biggest liar. You (Dave) need to put this boy under punishment, so bad punishment so as not to even come in the church.”
3) Makes accusation that “Dorel made himself President of the Columbia St church with the help of Traian Mohan”. Dorel explains how this is a false accusation. Elder Dave acknowledges as he was part of a meeting where John Patrutz accused Dorel of the same action which was clarified at that time for all.
4) Requests that Dave remove the current trustees and treasurers from their positions.
5) Makes accusation that I told his group to leave the church. This is a half-truth. Dorel explained what the conversation was that took place among many witnesses.
6) Makes accusation that “Petar Stefan slandered him on the Australian ACC website”. Not true and has no proof when asked for it.
7) Spread gossip about Dave being “the worst Elder ever” to area churches and distant churches over the USA and world. Dave stated that he received correspondence about the gossip from Arizona, Australia and his own church minister(s)/members which told Dave what was said about him by Misha.
8) After meeting while still in the sanctuary, he came up to Dorel and asked: “Have you ever had the Holy Spirit within you?”



Dorel Stefan 2
USA
24 Jun 2019 3:02

3575 views
Continue... (Dorel Stefan's email to David Nikolson)

__________________________________________________________________
Dymitro Popov
1) Makes accusation that “Dorel tells him to leave the church every Sunday”. False accusation. A discussion took place once with all 7 brothers. Same as #5 above for Misha.
2) After meeting while still in the sanctuary, he tells Dorel that “he’s the one who killed Pete and John Petrutz and that he destroyed many families”. Dorel asked if he knew what he was accusing him of? He repeated the entire statement again. Dorel expressed to him that these words will go with him to judgement. He showed no remorse. He then stated to Dorel, “How can you sleep at night with yourself with what you’ve done and shame on you”. Repeated this statement at least twice and possibly three times.

George Zula
1) Was devious in not telling the church that Elder Dave was coming for a meeting. Didn’t want our group to know anything ahead of time and possibly not be present since it’s just a visit. Elder Dave verified that he told George to express to the church that he was coming for a meeting.
2) George’s wife stood up and said she’d like to say something. Her husband has been accused of taking pictures of the church and she says he did not take pictures. Want to know who the accuser is? Once the meeting was over, George was approached outside of the sanctuary and confirmed that he did take pictures. Also, the next Sunday afternoon, George stated that he took pictures for the Foundation as well and that an agent called him about selling the church because the agent heard it was bankrupt. Why did he not admit to it in front of the church and explain the situation that his wife brought up?


Minuta & Maria Petras

1) At one point during the meeting, Minuta turned around to Maria and stated something like “he’s (or they’re?) cancer and he (or they) killed Nana Ion and Peter and put him in the ground.” Maria was in full agreement. At one point too, Maria turned toward Rosy Stefan, who was sitting directly behind her, and Maria told Rosy to “take her family and go to Akron church”. Not once did either of these ladies come to Rosy to discuss any issues or problems they had with her.


In the following two Sundays:
8-23-15
Dymitro preached in the morning and then after service came by to greet others and Dorel. Dorel asked Dymitro, “if he was free to come and greet me and go to the pulpit and preach after what he said to me last Sunday about killing individuals?”. Dymitro stated, “Yes, I am able” and showed no remorse for his words toward Dorel last Sunday.
Misha states to Petar Stefan outside in the parking lot that “the elders are coming to remove us from the church just like the elders removed Endre Toth in Warren”.
Traian Mohan asked George Zula after church service, if “Dave Nikolson told George to call him to send the deed to the committee or else he’ll be punished or did George do it on his own?”. George stated, “Dave told him to call and give the message”. Dave was asked about the situation via text. Dave stated, “Zula told me he was going to call Mohan and try to reason with him. That was his initiative. I don't need a delivery service.”




Dorel Stefan 3
USA
24 Jun 2019 3:05

3573 views
Continue... (Dorel Stefan's email to David Nikolson)
________________________________________________________________
8-30-15
Misha stood up during the morning meeting and stated, “He had a meeting with elders Monday and another meeting with them Tuesday and that the elders are scheduling their plans to come and take care of the situation at Columbia Station. Our church elder Dave will not be involved.” Petar Stefan stated, “Who are you to dictate what elders should come and what situations need to be taken care of?”.
Petar Stefan explained to the church that the lawn equipment had been stolen and that it was reported to the police. Dymitro stated he was at the church during the week but didn’t remember which day and didn’t check the shed area. Outside after church, Misha and Dymitro accused Petar Stefan and his group of stealing the equipment in order to blame Misha group. When the police report was filed, the officer asked if there was any trouble going on within the church. Petar did not mention anything to the officer of the troubling affairs going on within the church. Petar stated to the officer that he had no idea who would have stolen the equipment. The police report can be requested and verified if this is in question.


Dymitro just outside the sanctuary doors stated to Katica Stefan that “Vlasta Oldja is complaining about Katica’s actions to him”. Katica approached Vlasta and stated what Dymitro said about her. Vlasta stated that “she not complaining about her but about the whole church situation and all the quarrelling/hostility that’s happening every Sunday”. Vlasta stated to Katica, “She will not allow her children to see the quarrelling/hostility anymore and take her family to another church”. Another half-truth by Dymitro.
Dorel Stefan approached George and Lina Zula in the sanctuary after morning service. Dorel asked George, “Why was he silent when Lina stood up in church during the meeting and asked who is spreading rumors that her husband took pictures of the church”?. Lina wanted to show me the pictures. Dorel stated, “I don’t want to see the pictures. I’m asking why George was silent because he told others that he did take pictures of the church and a realty agent called him about the church. Why was he silent at the meeting and why didn’t he explain the situation with the pictures he took and the agent that called him”? No response to my questions from George or Lina. (Second question) Dorel asked Lina, “Why did you breakup the unity of the women in the front bench which was Lina, Ana Mohan (her older sister) and Katica Stefan?”. Lina a few weeks back took her church books and moved a bench back at the opposite side of where she use to sit by her sister. Ana and Katica moved back two rows and now the front bench consists of a widow and an older age sister. Lina would not answer the question and both of them walked away from me and left the sanctuary.

eveyone forgets
Australia
24 Jun 2019 16:21

3506 views
everyone seems to forget the bible verses and teaching in:

matthew 18:
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

everyone is telling everyone else about the issue, rather then going in humility ALONE to your brother/sister, to tell them their sin ALONE.

why is it so hard????????????

also read
Australia
24 Jun 2019 16:42

3504 views
Galatians 6:1

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

nowhere does it say tell your:
- husband
- wife
- son
- daughter
- mom
- dad
- minister
- elder

it says, tell him/her ALONE (1st)

Correcting Part time
USA
24 Jun 2019 22:00

3481 views
Should Doral be correcting members? someone who only attentened church 26 Sundays per year, a part timer church attendee?

Doral's parents should of helped him seek counseling, not encourage Doral to abuse church members.

If Doral believes that he's better then everybody then why didn't he just pack up and move to a church that suits him and that would help him grow as a believer.

So how would you aproach Doral to correct his church absence and his very bad behavior?


bible only answer
Australia
24 Jun 2019 22:29

3475 views
The prophet Nathan went to King David to reprimand him of his error of sin.
Everyone could not have done the same.
refer: 2 Samuel 12

Matthew 18:15-17 is the answer.
also
bearing in mind Galatians 6:1

if he neglects to hear and repent, the steps are outlined very clearly what needs to happen, and what are the consequences for a disobedient and rebellious member.

there is no compromise for Dorel, for any Elder nor was there for King David.

King David confessed his sin, and repented.

That's what Dorel, Peter and everyone else needs to do if they are in sin.
and
Each member needs to contact the member in sin to condemn the sin committed, and hope and pray for their deliverance out of that bondage or error.



Never wrong!
USA
24 Jun 2019 22:49

3473 views
OK, but how do you deal with such a person that's always right and never wrong?

How do you deal with a reprobate person?

How do you deal with a person that's not practical?

Rember dealing with the Stefan's is like dealing with the pharasiees and scribes.

Still waiting
USA
25 Jun 2019 0:12

3458 views
Q. All right. And the personal laptop you have at home, would that personal laptop have any information regarding the church?
A. It has our meeting notes there and it has our financial Excel documents

To Doral: Still waiting for your church meeting notes and correspondence texts, emails etc with David Nikolson, William Kurtz, Dushko Dragojlovic, Mark Miester and Matei Austovinov.

Still waiting!
USA
25 Jun 2019 0:47

3445 views
A. Yes. The group that is suing us now has slandered us and made false statements all over the world.
Q. What false accusations have been made by the group who did not leave the church in 2011?
A. They started spreading that we were going to sell the church.
Q. What is your understanding as to who has said that you were going sell the church?
A. Mihal Petras.
Q. Mihal Petras, that's M-I-H-A-L, and that's the father of Mike Petras, correct?
A. Right.
Q. So it's your claim that Mihal Petras has told somebody that you were going to sell the church; is that what you're telling me?
A. He called all around and told people. Yeah.
Q. What other claims do you think are false, and who made them?

Involvement
USA
25 Jun 2019 1:02

3441 views
A. And he slandered Dave Nikolson's name as well because he wasn't helping him do what he wanted to do.
Q. Okay. And what was your understanding -- so you're telling me that your understanding that he wanted this deed to the church so he could control the church; that was your understanding of what the fight was?
A. Yeah. Take it over and his group will run it the way they want.

That's right Doral David Nikolson was to busy helping you and your dad bully members and helping you steal the church and Dushko Dragojlovic,
Willy Kurtz, Mark Miester and Matei Austovinov helped you guy's to sell what does not belong to you.

professional help
USA
25 Jun 2019 1:41

3435 views
Dorel and his family need professional help for what they have done. His notes on each member are quite creepy too. (why was he taking notes?)

It's sad how the ACCN elders supported him and his dad. If the ACCN elders loved Dorel and Petar, they would have encouraged them to give the church back and not have helped them to sell the church. The topic of 'selling' the church would never have been mentioned.


SHOW ME THE MONEY!
USA
25 Jun 2019 3:57

3413 views
2 sides
Australia
22 Jan 2017 23:36

6819 views 2 sides to the story???
There are always more than two sides to a story; every individual has their version of “their truth”.
Uhhm maybe you’d like to see Steffan’s clear of guilt and the party that was kicked out to be fully blamed. I agree I’d like to see the other depositions and the offer to sell the church... MORE TRUTHS will come out and time will tell what happens to the Columbia Station building. How the money will be divided once it’s sold.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes I agree time has revealed who sold the C.S church, now you can ask the Stefan's "SHOW ME THE MONEY, WHERE'S THE MONEY"?????

follow closely
Australia
25 Jun 2019 13:06

3358 views
the bible does not state, if a member is rebellious and disobedient, or sins willfully that its ok NOT to reprimand him/her.

the bible is clear what EVERY members' move needs to be towards this member.

King David could have had the prophet Nathan killed, but he didnt.

John the Baptist did not care what Herod could do to him, John the Baptist stated Gods ways, Gods principles, Gods commandments....etc

its the same today....no different.

This is the teaching of Jesus Christ of Matthew 18:-17

Dorel could start persecuting as Herod persecuted/killed Gods followers....thats what could have happened, and did happen.
its no surprise.
but,
the word of God needs to be closely followed in every way .




Text Mssgs
USA
26 Jun 2019 13:21

3255 views
The following are the text messages between Dorel Stefan and David Nikolson. 'Us' is referred to as Dorel and Petar Stefan and 'Dave' to David Nikolson.
Please note the none of the text has been altered.

_______________________________________________________________
(Us)
Br. Dave..I forgot to ask if you had asked George Zula to inform the church that you were coming to hold a meeting. He announced that you were coming for a visit so it made us wonder whether he was withholding from some of us the fact that it would be a meeting.

(Dave)
No I indicated that it would be a meeting and for it to be announced

(Us)
So our hunch was right. He had announced the previous Sunday that you texted him and said you planned to visit us the following Sunday. This Sunday he again mentioned that he talked to you and that you were coming for a visit. ….same old..same old

(Us)
My father called and said Mohan just called him. Mohan said Zula just called him and said to send the deed to committee or they will come and punish us. Zula said you told him to call Mohan and deliver the msg. Is it true that you told zula to do this?

(Dave)
Zula told me he was going to call Mohan and try to reason with him. That was his initiative. I don’t need a delivery service. I came to your church on Sunday to inform those spreading rumors what the facts are.

(Dave)
He called at 5:21pm I returned his call at 6:09m today

(Dave)
What is also true is I am not in charge of your church at this point

(Us)
Why did you let them remove you?

(Dave)
It’s my own frustration
I’m tired of the fighting

(Us)
You know the two bros that accuse/slander us and you. Punish them and the issue will be resolved. How can they get away with their actions?

(Us)
I understand…. Too many hands in the pot now and everyone has their own opinion/truth and how to correct the issue at hand.

(Dave)
Exactly


mislead by who
Australia
26 Jun 2019 13:47

3246 views
why did peter and dorel have spiritual communication with a ACCN elder, if they wanted to change their church name from ACCN to nazarene congregation.

hypocrisy here, yeah?

saying one thing, and behind the scene, they are in communication with ACCN elders.....

who are they trying to mislead here?

CS Sold
USA
10 Jul 2019 11:22

2797 views
$550,000.00 cash buyer to Christian Meeting Corporation.

How much of this money will be given to Monica Russel, Alan Kraus, Petar and Dorel Stefan, David Nikolson, and to those who contributed in the sale of the church?

I wonder if the members that initially donated money will get their cut too.

really happening??
Australia
10 Jul 2019 11:37

2793 views
so, another so called denomination will profit from a cheap sale like this?

sad and shameful.

we gave the privilege so others benefit from the church, rather then some Nazarene church benefit from it....

wow.....could this really be happening???????????

Go on you
USA
10 Jul 2019 13:23

2774 views
Money well earned. Enjoy. How much did Judas sell out Jesus for? I guess the going rate for souls is about $550k now. So sad.

serious sin
Australia
10 Jul 2019 15:22

2760 views
Colossians 3:5
............and covetousness, which is idolatry:

we forget the level of sin of covetousness.........its IDOLATRY.

this is serious stuff, people.

covetousness is:
to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately

Outsider
USA
11 Jul 2019 0:21

2725 views
The fact that the church is sold just means that what has been written the whole time is true. There is now indisputable proof.

dont forget
Australia
11 Jul 2019 12:05

2647 views
2 Cor.5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

2 Peter 2:3
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might



Welcome to the ACCN
USA
13 Jul 2019 2:53

2536 views
Welcome to the ACCN, where we will take your donations and use your labor, and when we deem you are no good we will kick you out of the church, abuse your kids and then blame you for doing what we had to do because you are no good.

read carefully
Australia
13 Jul 2019 11:47

2501 views
many members THINK they are doing a service to God by committing sin.

John 16
1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.


Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.



ALK
USA
14 Jul 2019 16:19

2421 views
I’ve read many comments here about the sale of the Columbia Station church. Many have speculated or wondered who received the money from the sale. Or perhaps this information is known. I know nothing of the situation nor am I part of your church. However, I am aware of a little not-for-profit law.

Churches basically fall under the 501(c)(3) rules automatically, even if they never have to specifically apply for such status, and even if they never file a Form 990 tax return. As such, in being a ‘not-for-profit’ type entity, there are very specific rules as to what should be done with leftover assets in the event of dissolution. They are NOT to just go to private individuals. That would be considered “inurement” (defined as using income or assets of a tax-exempt organization to directly/indirectly benefit an individual in an undue manner, especially if that individual is able to exercise control over the organization), and this would be against the law.

In addition, the laws of the state where the not-for-profit is located oftentimes impacts how leftover assets of a dissolved not-for-profit are to be handled. I’m not familiar with the rules in Ohio, but in the state where I’m located, a not-for-profit cannot just take whatever is left over and give it to individuals. It makes no difference what kind of not-for-profit it is, be it church or otherwise. In fact, it’s very likely that someone attempting to do this would be caught by the state authorities and even prosecuted. It’s my understanding that when a not-for-profit dissolves in my state, this process is scrutinized very closely by the state (the Department of Justice) to ensure no person received inurement in the dissolution. What instead must be done, is the funds MUST be given to another tax-exempt organization. Those dissolving the organization (or better still, the dissolving organization’s bylaws) usually determine to which not-for-profit organization(s) the leftover assets would be directed. And not just any not-for-profit will do: it must be a not-for-profit that is also a 501(c)(3) or equivalent.

Again, I don’t know the laws or rules in Ohio, but they are likely very similar. If a person or people took the left over funds (even if deemed to be handled ‘fairly’ according to some of the things I’ve read on this site), it would still be wrong. It matters not who originally contributed the funds; it’s against the law to distribute them as inurement. If the dissolution process is similar to what it is in my state, it’s possible they would even be caught, though it might hinge on filings made. If there aren’t any filings made as part of the dissolution, or that have ever been made while the organization was viable, I suppose the authorities wouldn’t know anything about it unless it was brought to their attention via other means, such as through a whistle-blower.

Moderator
Australia
14 Jul 2019 18:38

2413 views
This is an interesting comment. Thanks.

To: ALK
USA
15 Jul 2019 5:41

2366 views

Thank you for your post. You are much appreciated. Can you please give me some guidance on the kind of letter that should be put together for the dept of justice and would I need to send supporting documentation to them?

To: ACCN ELDERS
USA
15 Jul 2019 12:04

2328 views
What was the purpose of selling the church? Elders, why did you allow the Stefan's to sell the church? You were talking to two lawyers, one which you were not paying and you had legal advisement from a brother from Mansfield and Australian solicitor from Akron church. Did you not know that you cannot kick members out of the church? What does your Bible say? Is it okay to kick members out and blame them for the sale of the church?

serious notes
Australia
15 Jul 2019 12:53

2320 views
John 16
1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

many THINK the they are doing a service to God for committing sin.

they have not KNOWN the Father when they do such deeds.

may God be merciful to their soul.

may God forgive their sin.

may God help them to know the Father.

harsh but true
Australia
15 Jul 2019 13:53

2311 views
Matthew 7:
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

can we see the wording.........

"I never knew you"

meaning, we think they are members, and before people, they are well known and have a nice reputation before some, but before God, God never recognized them as members by their inner man, deeds and sins.

this is HARSH but true.



wondering fr/Canada
Canada
16 Jul 2019 14:51

2238 views
It is high time that the Stephans speak up and give an account for their actions. We who comment on their actions and speculate on their motives could be held in judgement by the Almighty God if we judge in error. Dear Brothers Dorel and Peter (God knows and we all know you are reading these blogs) - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain if you speak the truth of your actions, and most importantly the state your spiritual heart as to what your intentions were and are. Mostly we agree that you are not given over to a reprobate minds(s) as that is a very serious and almost in-reconcilable state. Rosie Florica speak up where the men in your life cannot!!! Please share with the multitude as to what drives the affairs of your heart and that of your husband and father in law. Save them from the judgement of man. Use whatever name you wish to but save your children from being outcasts now and in the future until the Lord returns. Please in the Lord`s stead. Harden not your heart.

does anyone care
Australia
16 Jul 2019 16:04

2227 views
2 Corinth.5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.



Money
USA
17 Jul 2019 0:36

2170 views
Whether they keep the money or it goes somewhere else is completely irrelevant. They are thieves either way, they stole the house of the Lord even if a single penny doesn't end up in their pockets.

To: wondering fr/Can
USA
17 Jul 2019 4:02

2149 views
Did you not read Dorel and Petar Stefan's depositions? ----I honestly don't understand what is not clear to you???----

Their answers, when questioned, do not match their actions. Actions speak louder than lies.

To: wondering fr/Can
USA
17 Jul 2019 4:27

2141 views
Where was Rosie when her husband and father law was mistreating the children and elderly? Was she not standing beside both of these men in the church?

And where were you? In a Canadian church with heat and water. Were the kids that attend your church called names and were the elderly, members, and kids denied running water so they couldn't use the bathroom at times, or heat or hot water in the middle of winter?

The Stefans cannot talk themselves out of this situation. The actions were done!

Clear?
USA
17 Jul 2019 5:35

2129 views
...don't kid yourself both sides were at fault here. Neither side worked towards peace. If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. And that's exactly what happened! So sad!

To: Clear?
USA
17 Jul 2019 5:43

2126 views
I think you need some professional help. If you believe that kids and elderly deserve to be abused then clearly you are justifying. When you have a party that wants to close down a church and sell it, and they succeed, and you turn around and blame those that were kicked out, you are complicit in their corruption. It doesn't matter what you say at this point. What is done is done, and you cannot change their actions. You can lie and justify them, but at the end of the day, actions speak louder than words.

To clear?
USA
17 Jul 2019 5:56

2119 views
You who wrote this must be related to the Stefan's. If you believe that stealing is okay before God and the public, you need mental help, and the church should pray for you.

Bitterness
USA
17 Jul 2019 6:00

2117 views
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Outsider
USA
17 Jul 2019 6:05

2110 views
Just because it's not happening to you doesn't mean it's not wrong. You are blind. Quoting the Bible will not justify Stefan's and elders actions. It doesn't matter how many verses in the Bible you quote.

shameful
USA
17 Jul 2019 7:11

2096 views
Ask Viorica Petruz who attends the Brunswick church now. She can explain how David Nikolson, Petar, and Dorel Stefan abused her husband for the CS church deed. Jon Petruz said he would never ever give the Stefans the deed, but Sister Viorica Petruz told her husband Jon Petruz to give it to them if David, Petar, and Dorel want it that bad for peace.

Did David Nikolson's wife ever tell her husband to stop abusing Brother Jon Petruz or the members of CS? How many times did the sisters approach David's wife to tell her that the Stefan's were are abusing them and trying to kick them out of church? What does she say now after the church is sold and the money from the bank was stolen?

What about Petar Stefan's wife? Did she tell her husband to stop abusing the members of CS and Brother Jon Petruz? After all the abuse and stealing what does she say now?

What about Dorel's wife, Rosie? Did she tell her husband to be kind to the children, Brother Jon Petruz and the members of CS? What does she say now after the church is sold?

David, Petar and Dorel, and their wives all together supported and participated in kicking members out, closing the doors, and abusing members. Where are they now?

The sister who supported her husband for good was sister Viorica Petruz, who was tired of seeing her husband being abused. She is now attending Brunswick church so you can go to her and ask her before you protect abusers.

To: Clear
Serbia
17 Jul 2019 7:50

2087 views
Do you have loose nuts like Petar and Doral Stefan as your church trustees, founder's, owners and protectors of your Nazarene church?
Or are you a loose nut like the Stefans?


wondering fr/Canada
Canada
17 Jul 2019 8:12

2078 views
Sorry I did not see the Dorel's deposition on this site, only Peter's which seemed awkward with selective memory and selective misunderstandings of certain questions. I would very much like to read the Dorel depo. I haven't heard what they plan to do the money. That's the real accounting I'm talking about. They are now steward's of the Lord's money. A fearful thing to abuse that trust.
1 Tim 6:6-10 (KJV)
6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing* out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Yes I was in a Canadian church with heat and water. What was I to do - insert myself into the mix? Isn't this why we elect church 'fathers'?
It breaks my heart to hear about the abuse, - all the displaced families, the huge discouragements of the young - both saved and unsaved, esp the children.

Who's to blame?
Serbia
17 Jul 2019 8:41

2073 views
That's the big problem now, who's at fault? Who will be held accountable for the injustices at the Columbia Station OH church.
Don't blame the elders, don't blame David Nikolson, don't blame the Stefans so you blame on biting and devouring, one group did not wish to sell the church and the other group worked hard to sell the church.

What did Jesus do,

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and seats of them of them that sold doves, and said unto them, it is written, my house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Now why did Jesus do this? Did Jesus have no peace? Why didn't Jesus work for Peace? Was Jesus quarreling and back biting, devouring with the Scribes and Pharisees?
Why was Jesus upset or angry at those so called Jews who made God's temple a mockery?

The fish rots from the head down, it was the Pharisees who allowed the market place in the temple they were committing sacralige!
Same at Columbia Station OH the elders what ever the elder told the Stefans to do they did.



To: Wondering fr/Can
USA
17 Jul 2019 9:50

2055 views
Can you please go on YouTube and listen to the court hearings, and sister Viorica Petruz's testimony on how they abused her husband for the church deed. You will also be able to hear for yourself, David Nikolson and Stefan's statements from their word of mouth.

no longer yours
Australia
17 Jul 2019 11:41

2035 views
there is no justification for committing sin, REGARDLESS if the other committed sin towards me.
the church is not mine or yours, it belongs to Christ.
Christ is Head of the church, not elders, elder committee's, nor trustees.
they cannot do whatever they choose to for the Church, they can choose where they want to go, but not what is going to happen to Gods church.
this is what most cannot see.
many think you give money, and its yours now, WRONG.
when you give its not yours anymore, whether its 1 penny or 1 million dollars.
once it comes out of your hand to someone or something, it no longer belongs to you ever again.

Cold love/faith
Australia
17 Jul 2019 13:00

2024 views
Doesn't it feel like our faith is getting colder that we can't even find in our weak hearts to forgive. Yes heaps of hurt and wrong has been done to each other but we need to forgive them so our Lord can forgive us. I'm sure none of us are perfect and don't need forgiveness, so let's act like Jesus' followers. They've been told they did something wrong and now it's up to God to put in their hearts to ask for forgiveness. If God can/will forgive us and allow us to go to heaven....then who do we think we are to not forgive one another. Let's be careful that we don't fall into satans trap of hatred and end up in hell with him in eternal damnation.

go all the way
Australia
17 Jul 2019 13:21

2020 views
yes, good comment
we need to forgive, and its very important
but, that does not forgive their sins, until they confess their sins and repent from their sins
so, if you are going to coment like you have, thats fine,
just go all the way and use all biblical concepts for whats in question here, not only one side of the story
our forgiveness gets God to forgive us when we sin, but does not forgive the other in sin, until they apologise, confess and repent.

you need to say both for both sides, if you want to get involved the biblical way.

dont be partial.

Cold love/faith
Australia
17 Jul 2019 13:59

2011 views
Correct...like I've mentioned, it's up to God to put it in their hearts to ask for forgiveness. Perhaps I didn't phrase it right. Thanks

no issue
Australia
17 Jul 2019 14:26

2007 views
all good

no problem

just a note as many look at the forgiveness part, but dont look at the other side of the person in sin needs to confess their sin, repent and apologise.



Dear Serbia,
USA
17 Jul 2019 23:06

1977 views
You should be ashamed for you language. People in Serbia are more conservative (holy) than us in America. You are a bad example!

read yourself
Australia
17 Jul 2019 23:15

1973 views
Isaiah 9:
14 Therefore the Lord will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.

15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

delusional
Australia
17 Jul 2019 23:21

1969 views
to: mister/miss/mrs/mastermind sin supporter....etc

re. "SERBIA"
...don't kid yourself both sides were at fault here. Neither side worked towards peace. If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. And that's exactly what happened! So sad!

whoever did unto others what they liked people to do to them, was in the right.

i am sure, that the stefans, dave nikolson, accn elders, accn elder committee, accn elder body would NOT have liked someone to lock the church doors in front of them, nor steal their own homes, their own cars, their own businesses, their own property...etc
YET
thats exactly what the stefans, dave, accn elders...etc, did to
others.

this is the sin in question.

Jesus taught this very simple teaching, that many still cannot see, practice or uphold.

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


To: Dear Serbia
USA
18 Jul 2019 1:33

1955 views
---'You should be ashamed for you language. People in Serbia are more conservative (holy) than us in America. You are a bad example!'---

Are you kidding?

The Stefan's did what they did because they wanted the European way. What was the European way? To steal and sell a church.

Now I can also tell you from the first hand by experience that in Serbia there are ministers that lie and steal too. It's not as holy as you think it is.

naive
USA
18 Jul 2019 1:44

1949 views
The issue with the church is that most members are naive. They believe what is told to them because they think that elders, ministers, and members don't lie and don't cheat people because they go to church on Sunday. But the reality is everyone has it in them to tell the untruth. It all depends on the price and what is in it for them. Unfortunately, I would like to believe that people will do the right thing but based on my experience with this church, I don't think people will. So you can defend what took place in CS all you like, but it will never change the actions that were made by these men and leaders. It will only validate what kind of members attend the ACCN church.

I left the group
USA
21 Jul 2019 18:20

1755 views
This post is great for people to come back to, to understand the issues associated with the ACC. The story goes like this.

A large group of uneducated Europeans migrated to Canada, USA, and Australia. Due to lack of education (see post above. That was the norm), they mostly did trade jobs. On Sundays, they were weekend warrior Christians. No idea as to how to read the bible, or the contents in it, they preached and made up doctrines not too dissimilar to the Catholic Church. (age of accountability is false, water baptism saves is false, loss of salvation is false, works assist in salvation is false.)

The next generation (first generation Americans, Canadians, etc.) went to public schooling, and learned to think for themselves. As they questioned their uneducated ex farmer parents, they got upset with the kids, and threatened separation from the "family" if disobedience persisted. This mindset was brought on from their former communist ruling in the "old country."

Then, the subsequent generation (second generation western culture kids) realised the complete insanity, error, heretical teaching of the acc, and for the truth, left the group. Their parents cried "what would others think?"

You see, the acc does not have God and the Bible as their primary focus. This is made apparent from the countless youth (18-30 year olds) bringing up issues to "Elders" and "Ministers" who make no corrective action, due to "what will people think." This, my friends, is called a cult. When mere men are in control of your life. Not what God wants or even demands. These leaders do whatever they want, so long as it's not murder or sexual sins then everything is ok. It's about power, and control. This website is FULL of sinful acts of leaders that are NEVER addressed. This is why the acc will continue to shrink and shrivel. Basic knowledge illuminated the church's error and monumental hypocrisy. People who genuinely love God and his word, usually end up leaving as the acc is more or less (more actually) a spiritual poison.

This website is doing a great job of revealing these "abusers" and hope they continue to reveal the truth.


Head of the Church
Australia
21 Jul 2019 23:42

1735 views
Theology and Biblical truth has nothing in common.

Those that have received the spirit obey the spirit and walk in the spirit, whether farmers or doctors are on the foundation of Jesus Christ.

Those members that are obedient to Christ, as Head of the Church, was and is always the correct way.

As soon as elders, ministers, brothers, sisters...etc stopped obeying Christ, and his order of obedience, this is the error of sin in question.

Christ cannot be and is not Head of those Churches that dont allow Christ to be their Head.


Man is the head of the wife, not the wife.
Christ is Head of the Church, not the elders.
God is Head of Christ, not the elder body nor the elder committee.

Every other teaching is not Biblical.

re I left the group
Canada
23 Jul 2019 12:46

1596 views
Sadly but yes refreshingly true this hits the nail almost right on the head - quite insightful. This denomination is in danger of collapsing under its own weight of irrelevance and lack of spirituality. Yes there are still some, but precious few, ministers and leaders who stand in awe of the responsibility of preaching the Word of God from the pulpit and applying it as directed from His Word. To them it is a deep real calling and nothing more. Too many want the pulpit and more to feel powerful, popular, in charge, think that they have a monopoly of or entitled authority on the explaining the truth, feel important, desire not the office but the popularity of the position...other who are peons and nobodies in their place of employment maybe factory line workers like to feel that Sunday is their day of redemption getting back at their lowly place in society by being a big shot in the church among the ignorant who sit in the benches. Whatever it takes to make them feel special.
Then, to make matters worse, they feel it is their entitlement or dynasty of their family , in their delusions of grandeur, to ensure succession of they deluded visions by doing whatever it takes for their offspring to continue their vision and to gain the pulpit and more.

And here we sit.

Many and more and more are giving their head a shake, asking themselves how can I continue to be so blind and foolish to everything that’s going on here...and then decide to leave and maybe save their soul and that of their family in the process.

And here we sit.




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A B U S E R S  :  H A L L  O F  S H A M E 
Paul Pentsa
Brisbane
Janko Tomek
Melbourne
Andrew Szabo
Perth
Vlada Papuga
Melbourne
Philip Ruzeu
Melbourne
Nick Pentsa
Brisbane
Michael Stanjo
Melbourne
STAY AWAY FROM THIS MAN! His mouth is full of Biblical verses but his heart is filled with hatred, jealousy, treachery and lust for power. This FALSE CHRISTIAN is the root of almost all evil in ACCN in Australia and he will even take you to court, if he can't get his way.
Janko is pretty much like Paul, dishonest and unloving, just less intelligent. Janko is now building his humongous "warehouse" in Tarneit, destined to remain void of both faith and members. This UNREPENTED SINNER is still dreaming about becoming an elder!
Hard-hearted and egoistic, this long-time "elder" has caused immense grief, division and misery amongst the Nazarenes in Australia. Some even call him a sadist... not that Andrew really cares about anyone's opinion, though. Currently residing in a nursing home in Perth.
Earned his nickname by constantly repeating "Ljubazni" (Dear Ones) while preaching. This recently appointed "elder assistant" is ambitious, but at the same time not clever enough to realize he will always be just Paul's and Janko's messenger boy.
Philip is Paul Pentsa's son-in-law and definitely his best student. Proud, stubborn, arrogant - a classic bigot. Due to his off-putting personality and some weird beliefs, he's not on very good terms with Janko Tomek and other Slovaks in Tarneit.
Here is your future Elder, whether you like the idea or not. Nicky is "a very nice guy". No gift for preaching or leadership skills, but being Paul Pentsa's son, he's actually got everything he needs. Sooner or later his Dad will find the way to install him as his successor.
Janko Tomek's loyal admirer and bodyguard - sleazy, hypocritical, dishonest and ignorant. His interpretation of the Scriptures can make you laugh as well as his awkward sermons in broken English.


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Spiritual and Mental Abuse in ACCN in Australia - Page 1
 

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