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ACCN Forum | removal from book of life
ACCN Forum
removal from book of life
Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
does not contradict
LUKE 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
meaning, there is NO possible reason for remarriage.
the way matt 19:9 is worded in the sentence structure cannot over-right other bible verses to allow adultery
LUKE 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
and
Mark 10:9
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
and
1 Corinthians 7:11
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
"DONT" contradict
Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
the hungarian elders "DO" contradict:
- Luke 16:18
- Mark 10:9
and
- 1 Corinthians 7:11
removal from book of life
dangerous
Australia
Australia
20 Nov 2019 22:27
6765 views
6765 views
can anyone show a bible chapter and verse that allows an elder to pray for someones name to be REMOVED from the book of life?
wondering fr/Canada
Canada
Canada
22 Nov 2019 3:45
6639 views
6639 views
(Talk about reviving the website that has gone strangely silent. Have we addressed everything?...or just gotten weary of it all?)
NOWHERE!!!
That's as cultish, scary, dark, and despicable as it gets. I remember hearing that one particular Euro-trained elder in California used to do that after ex'ing a member during the ex'ing ritual(members meeting for the purpose of deciding a soul's eternal destiny in hell). In their twisted logic they figured that they had better exercise their obligation to do just that since they initially instructed God to place the convert's name in the Book Of Life when they laid hands on them.
Some Cdn/Amer elders also would pray to instruct God to place the convert's name in the Book Of Life when they laid hands on them but not sure if they also did the 'Euro-trained elder in California' thing.
Who do these guys think they are?
Please tell me that doesn't happen anymore - ANYWHERE! If that still happens in your church with impunity - resign and leave immediately.
NOWHERE!!!
That's as cultish, scary, dark, and despicable as it gets. I remember hearing that one particular Euro-trained elder in California used to do that after ex'ing a member during the ex'ing ritual(members meeting for the purpose of deciding a soul's eternal destiny in hell). In their twisted logic they figured that they had better exercise their obligation to do just that since they initially instructed God to place the convert's name in the Book Of Life when they laid hands on them.
Some Cdn/Amer elders also would pray to instruct God to place the convert's name in the Book Of Life when they laid hands on them but not sure if they also did the 'Euro-trained elder in California' thing.
Who do these guys think they are?
Please tell me that doesn't happen anymore - ANYWHERE! If that still happens in your church with impunity - resign and leave immediately.
one example...
Australia
Australia
23 Nov 2019 0:02
6573 views
6573 views
does God give the Church or elders' a role to do good, and bad, or just good?
does God allow the Church and elders to conduct a role towards salvation of a person........because its a positive and good thing?
does God allow the Church and elders to bring the final judgement (now, "OR" at the last day)?
does God allow the Church and elders to bring law, order and/or discipline on members?
does God allow the Church and the elders to bring the "FINAL" law, order or discipline on a member"BEFORE" the judgement day?
or
"AT" the judgement day?
1 Corinthians chapter 5, verse 5
5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
this is "VERY" clear that the Church and its elders hand the member thats fallen away to a level of discipline, all the time until the Lord returns (being the day of the Lord, as its stated in verse 5)
the excomunnication is the highest level the Church can conduct, leaving it in the hands of the Lord for He to decide on that day.
this does not give "ANY" indication that the Church or elders can remove the members name from Gods book of Life, let alone pray for this judgement
....that the spirit be saved on the day......meaning that fallen away member can, "IF" God decides, meaning "GOD" will decide on the last day.
if God is going to decide, this means, that God is "NOT" giving the Church and elders to decide.
the excommunication as the highest level of discipline the Church and the elders can do, means the fallen away member cannot be reinstated as a free member
that doesnt mean, if the fallen away member cannot be reinstated as a free member, lets make sure he/she doesnt get to heaven, and pray that their name be removed from the book of life....this is baloney misinterpretation of some unbiblical teaching that cannot be found anywhere in the bible.....
if so, please quote bible, chapter and verse.
does God allow the Church and elders to conduct a role towards salvation of a person........because its a positive and good thing?
does God allow the Church and elders to bring the final judgement (now, "OR" at the last day)?
does God allow the Church and elders to bring law, order and/or discipline on members?
does God allow the Church and the elders to bring the "FINAL" law, order or discipline on a member"BEFORE" the judgement day?
or
"AT" the judgement day?
1 Corinthians chapter 5, verse 5
5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
this is "VERY" clear that the Church and its elders hand the member thats fallen away to a level of discipline, all the time until the Lord returns (being the day of the Lord, as its stated in verse 5)
the excomunnication is the highest level the Church can conduct, leaving it in the hands of the Lord for He to decide on that day.
this does not give "ANY" indication that the Church or elders can remove the members name from Gods book of Life, let alone pray for this judgement
....that the spirit be saved on the day......meaning that fallen away member can, "IF" God decides, meaning "GOD" will decide on the last day.
if God is going to decide, this means, that God is "NOT" giving the Church and elders to decide.
the excommunication as the highest level of discipline the Church and the elders can do, means the fallen away member cannot be reinstated as a free member
that doesnt mean, if the fallen away member cannot be reinstated as a free member, lets make sure he/she doesnt get to heaven, and pray that their name be removed from the book of life....this is baloney misinterpretation of some unbiblical teaching that cannot be found anywhere in the bible.....
if so, please quote bible, chapter and verse.
still alive?
Australia
Australia
23 Nov 2019 0:03
6572 views
6572 views
who was this Euro-trained elder in California?
california
USA
USA
23 Nov 2019 2:47
6552 views
6552 views
"NOWHERE!!!
That's as cultish, scary, dark, and despicable as it gets. I remember hearing that one particular Euro-trained elder in California used to do that after ex'ing a member during the ex'ing ritual(members meeting for the purpose of deciding a soul's eternal destiny in hell). In their twisted logic they figured that they had better exercise their obligation to do just that since they initially instructed God to place the convert's name in the Book Of Life when they laid hands on them"
............. LOL!!!! Thats exactly what they do!!!! They purposely are dis-membering the church, (i.e. cutting the body up) and then they whine in their glorious tirade of a preaching that the world is ending and that theres no more "faithful people, they will never see themselves in the mirror, how they destroy peoples lives and social connections, here in the USA the things they practice are borderline discrimination and probably not covered by freedom of religion they're leaving themselves open to BIG lawsuits! I would encourage all ACCN members to change their system before everyone walks away, just do away with all the bad practices/old traditions its not that hard, it just takes a little motivation, isn' that the purpose of a church, to save lives, and come as you are? Another question has anyone ever heard them say that? COME AS YOU ARE...............
That's as cultish, scary, dark, and despicable as it gets. I remember hearing that one particular Euro-trained elder in California used to do that after ex'ing a member during the ex'ing ritual(members meeting for the purpose of deciding a soul's eternal destiny in hell). In their twisted logic they figured that they had better exercise their obligation to do just that since they initially instructed God to place the convert's name in the Book Of Life when they laid hands on them"
............. LOL!!!! Thats exactly what they do!!!! They purposely are dis-membering the church, (i.e. cutting the body up) and then they whine in their glorious tirade of a preaching that the world is ending and that theres no more "faithful people, they will never see themselves in the mirror, how they destroy peoples lives and social connections, here in the USA the things they practice are borderline discrimination and probably not covered by freedom of religion they're leaving themselves open to BIG lawsuits! I would encourage all ACCN members to change their system before everyone walks away, just do away with all the bad practices/old traditions its not that hard, it just takes a little motivation, isn' that the purpose of a church, to save lives, and come as you are? Another question has anyone ever heard them say that? COME AS YOU ARE...............
wondering fr/Canada
Canada
Canada
23 Nov 2019 6:14
6532 views
6532 views
Other than the very few extreme still-living-in-religious-darkness fringe Euro-Naz churches I think that practice is extinct and thankfully was never widely practiced at least not in the last ~25-30 years. Christian leaders that actually read and follow God's word would never have done that then or now - even the present day weak ones and the light weights.
Praying to instruct God to place the convert's name in the Book Of Life when they lay hands on them may still be more prevalent which is subject to debate on its merits, or lack thereof. Might sound noble but is it right or is it possessing of some pride in telling God what to do in a matter that weighty? This is not like asking God's help with temptation or to be physically healed.
In regards to who was this Euro-trained elder in California? I will stay silent on his identity - he is dead and gone. If his name is known so might those of his victims, but he was not alone in this practice even in California , but there are scores of members in California that know who he is and also his colleagues who did the same, not to mention the member sheep flock who stood by and thought this ok to do. Ditto for Europe.
I can only believe that Jesus is interceding to his Father asking Him to forgive them for they know not what they do.
Praying to instruct God to place the convert's name in the Book Of Life when they lay hands on them may still be more prevalent which is subject to debate on its merits, or lack thereof. Might sound noble but is it right or is it possessing of some pride in telling God what to do in a matter that weighty? This is not like asking God's help with temptation or to be physically healed.
In regards to who was this Euro-trained elder in California? I will stay silent on his identity - he is dead and gone. If his name is known so might those of his victims, but he was not alone in this practice even in California , but there are scores of members in California that know who he is and also his colleagues who did the same, not to mention the member sheep flock who stood by and thought this ok to do. Ditto for Europe.
I can only believe that Jesus is interceding to his Father asking Him to forgive them for they know not what they do.
answers
Australia
Australia
24 Nov 2019 0:18
6455 views
6455 views
re.
does God allow the Church and elders to bring law, order and/or discipline on members?
(yes!!)
re.
does God allow the Church and the elders to bring the "FINAL" law, order or discipline on a member"BEFORE" the judgement day?
(no!!)
or
"AT" the judgement day?
(no!!)
does God allow the Church and elders to bring law, order and/or discipline on members?
(yes!!)
re.
does God allow the Church and the elders to bring the "FINAL" law, order or discipline on a member"BEFORE" the judgement day?
(no!!)
or
"AT" the judgement day?
(no!!)
really?
Australia
Australia
24 Nov 2019 0:20
6454 views
6454 views
are you meaning 'euro-trained' as referring to european elders conduct/conducted this practice in the way as the american elders did/do?
didnt think so!!
didnt think so!!
can i guess
Australia
Australia
26 Nov 2019 22:34
6304 views
6304 views
did the euro trained brother have initials:
SN
MA
or
LJ
SN
MA
or
LJ
ARE ELDERS GOD?
Australia
Australia
1 Dec 2019 22:37
6164 views
6164 views
Heb. 13:4
is "VERY" CLEAR
......................but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
MEANING WHAT?
THE CHURCH CAN?, NO!!
ELDERS CAN?, NO!!
"GOD WILL"
SO WHICH EVER ELDERS BRINGS THIS CONDEMNATION UPON A FALLEN MEMBER IS CLEARLY TAKING OVER GODS JOB TO DO ON THE LAST DAY TO DISCERN AND GIVE THE FINAL SAY.
WHERE
THE BIBLE CLEARLY STATES "GOD" WILL JUDGE THE MEMBERS THAT COMMIT THESE TYPES OF SINS.
is "VERY" CLEAR
......................but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
MEANING WHAT?
THE CHURCH CAN?, NO!!
ELDERS CAN?, NO!!
"GOD WILL"
SO WHICH EVER ELDERS BRINGS THIS CONDEMNATION UPON A FALLEN MEMBER IS CLEARLY TAKING OVER GODS JOB TO DO ON THE LAST DAY TO DISCERN AND GIVE THE FINAL SAY.
WHERE
THE BIBLE CLEARLY STATES "GOD" WILL JUDGE THE MEMBERS THAT COMMIT THESE TYPES OF SINS.
agree
Australia
Australia
2 Dec 2019 9:26
6125 views
6125 views
Yes "GOD will judge those members" but they should be removed from members fellowship. Read 1 Corint. 5:11 NKJ
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother,who is fornicator,or covetious,or an idolater,or a reviler,or a drunkard,or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside?
Do you not judge those who are inside?
But those who are outside God judges.
Therefore "put away from yourselves that wicked person."
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother,who is fornicator,or covetious,or an idolater,or a reviler,or a drunkard,or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside?
Do you not judge those who are inside?
But those who are outside God judges.
Therefore "put away from yourselves that wicked person."
yes, take note
Australia
Australia
2 Dec 2019 11:48
6103 views
6103 views
cannot be a free member is one thing, and removing from the book of Life is another thing.
removed from membership by means that they cannot be reinstated again, doesnt give ANYONE the right to remove a name from Gods book of Life.
that part is God to do.
not to keep company, as fellowship again with fallen members, does not give ANYONE the right to remove their name from Gods book of Life.
this is in question here.
removed from membership by means that they cannot be reinstated again, doesnt give ANYONE the right to remove a name from Gods book of Life.
that part is God to do.
not to keep company, as fellowship again with fallen members, does not give ANYONE the right to remove their name from Gods book of Life.
this is in question here.
We all agree
Canada
Canada
4 Dec 2019 3:27
6006 views
6006 views
We all agree that asking God to remove someone's name from The Book of Life is heinous. But let's not miss the bigger point that some corners of this denomination were in such religious darkness as to actually do that and those seeds of darkness still exist today in twisting the scriptures to find sins unto death where they don't exist and making people believe that they are destined for hell with zero hope of changing that. or are they perpetrating lies hoping to keep members in line so that they can control them more effectively. What bible are they reading if at all. I seriously doubt that most of the leadership in North America were even aware of that happening but I know it was widespread in the churches of Serbia and I'm not just talking the Doroslovatz cult.
look at both sides
Australia
Australia
4 Dec 2019 23:33
5955 views
5955 views
yeah, thats right.
it also goes for the Gicanov cult too.
and
separation from the Church (new theory implemented by doug savin and approved by north american committee...etc)
is not a biblical teaching either.
it also goes for the Gicanov cult too.
and
separation from the Church (new theory implemented by doug savin and approved by north american committee...etc)
is not a biblical teaching either.
humiliating truth
Australia
Australia
5 Dec 2019 9:59
5925 views
5925 views
'sin unto death' is a bible teaching.
'separation from the church' is not a bible teaching
mister doug savin, do not humiliate the bibles' truth about sin unto death.
revelation 22:18 & 19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
'separation from the church' is not a bible teaching
mister doug savin, do not humiliate the bibles' truth about sin unto death.
revelation 22:18 & 19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Why
USA
USA
5 Dec 2019 12:23
5913 views
5913 views
Why is my comment gone?
Naming Steve nenadov is a no-no?
Naming Steve nenadov is a no-no?
Moderator
Australia
Australia
5 Dec 2019 12:33
5911 views
5911 views
Nothing was deleted. Try posting again.
Cult
6 Dec 2019 7:53
5850 views
5850 views
Nobody knows who Gicanov is but everyone knows who Doroslovac is. That speaks volumes.
renamed
Australia
Australia
6 Dec 2019 23:28
5783 views
5783 views
ACCN is the Gicanov side, just the old name where the side originated from the elders name Mister Cveta Gicanov.
pretty standard
Australia
Australia
6 Dec 2019 23:31
5782 views
5782 views
its pretty common for one side to only know "ALL" the negatives of the other.
very carnal minded.............!!!!!!
very carnal minded.............!!!!!!
simple
Australia
Australia
7 Dec 2019 9:29
5742 views
5742 views
To all these so called Christians. Neve mind who is Gicanov or Doroslovac… they are just mortal people.
The question is; "do YOU follow Jesus Christ"?
1 Corin.3:4
That was in Corinth church,for one says "I am of Paul" and aother I am of Apollos" are you not carnal?
If people be following the bible more,they wouldn't say nasty things towards each other.
The question is; "do YOU follow Jesus Christ"?
1 Corin.3:4
That was in Corinth church,for one says "I am of Paul" and aother I am of Apollos" are you not carnal?
If people be following the bible more,they wouldn't say nasty things towards each other.
simple
Australia
Australia
7 Dec 2019 9:58
5737 views
5737 views
Do not dwell about past but rather ponder on how to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philip. 2:12
There are many so called christians, but with their actions they deny Jesus Christ. Tit. 1:16
There are many so called christians, but with their actions they deny Jesus Christ. Tit. 1:16
W fr Can
Canada
Canada
8 Dec 2019 6:26
5678 views
5678 views
Discipline is a form of Correction not punishment. It is meant to and it is supposed to rehabilitate and help restore not bring down or destroy. Other than the one and only verified by scripture sin unto death, there should never be a permanent separation from the membership or Fellowship of anyone. Accn sadly still has a long way to go to recognize and Implement this. It might take another generation a better leadership to implement this but hopefully. Come sooner than later too many lives have been affected badly. it seems sometimes that this denomination still to some extent lives in a culture of conviction and Disposal. many leaders it seems are content to live with and accept this Injustice just to keep the denomination from splitting. Sad.
STUDY ON THIS TOPIC
9 Dec 2019 23:02
5587 views
5587 views
bad examples of elders who in the past MISTREATED members that have fallen into "sins unto death" cannot be a reason to change the principle and fundamental teaching of holy living.
what NEEDS to change, is the concept the elders commit the work for a member that has fallen into a sin unto death.
the cause of a bad or multiple bad examples of elders' actions towards members that have fallen into a sin unto death is what needs to be dealt with, not changing the order of holy living NOR the teaching of 'sins unto death'.
we need to view the original structure of Biblical teaching on "sins unto death".
these are found in the old testament, and repeated in a spiritual sense in the new testament.
this will help us view the new testament church teaching we are in.
people need to study into this matter more, not be influenced into a NON-BIBLICAL TEACHING by elder doug savin nor any other elder that is teaching falsehood.
what NEEDS to change, is the concept the elders commit the work for a member that has fallen into a sin unto death.
the cause of a bad or multiple bad examples of elders' actions towards members that have fallen into a sin unto death is what needs to be dealt with, not changing the order of holy living NOR the teaching of 'sins unto death'.
we need to view the original structure of Biblical teaching on "sins unto death".
these are found in the old testament, and repeated in a spiritual sense in the new testament.
this will help us view the new testament church teaching we are in.
people need to study into this matter more, not be influenced into a NON-BIBLICAL TEACHING by elder doug savin nor any other elder that is teaching falsehood.
search the origin
Australia
Australia
14 Dec 2019 1:40
5445 views
5445 views
re.
Other than the one and only verified by scripture sin unto death, there should never be a permanent separation from the membership or Fellowship of anyone.
was there only one example and for one type of sin in the old testament for which people were stoned to death?
if not,
then there isnt only one sin unto death.
read and compare the origin of sins unto death in the old testament, and for which sins were people stoned to death.
separation from the church, membership or fellowship is not a biblical teaching.
sin unto death is a biblical teaching.
Other than the one and only verified by scripture sin unto death, there should never be a permanent separation from the membership or Fellowship of anyone.
was there only one example and for one type of sin in the old testament for which people were stoned to death?
if not,
then there isnt only one sin unto death.
read and compare the origin of sins unto death in the old testament, and for which sins were people stoned to death.
separation from the church, membership or fellowship is not a biblical teaching.
sin unto death is a biblical teaching.
Re search
Canada
Canada
18 Dec 2019 3:40
5286 views
5286 views
That's right keep living under the law on you and you will be be judged according to the Old Testament law. You have no idea what Jesus brought and what Grace is sadly.
go join the doroslovatz cult - they will love you and maybe elevate you to something important.
Maybe you like Sharia law too.
go join the doroslovatz cult - they will love you and maybe elevate you to something important.
Maybe you like Sharia law too.
please read comment
Australia
Australia
18 Dec 2019 9:17
5254 views
5254 views
read the comment carefully.........
the comment was not being diverted to the old testament.
it was referred to the origin meaning FROM the old testament.
and
there is a spiritual new testament teaching FROM the old testament.
love and grace is for the sinners coming to Jesus, and for those in Jesus.
but
the sin unto death is referred to members that are in Jesus, not for those coming to Jesus.
that is 2 different topics to be discussed.
the comment was not being diverted to the old testament.
it was referred to the origin meaning FROM the old testament.
and
there is a spiritual new testament teaching FROM the old testament.
love and grace is for the sinners coming to Jesus, and for those in Jesus.
but
the sin unto death is referred to members that are in Jesus, not for those coming to Jesus.
that is 2 different topics to be discussed.
Really?
Canada
Canada
19 Dec 2019 3:34
5215 views
5215 views
Love and Grace applies only to those who are seeking to become members of the body of Christ? Really???
Then how does God deal with the imperfections of his children??? Must be nice to be perfect from your conversion on.
I find that your comments are confusing in mixed up.
Then how does God deal with the imperfections of his children??? Must be nice to be perfect from your conversion on.
I find that your comments are confusing in mixed up.
read for yourself
Australia
Australia
19 Dec 2019 20:42
5164 views
5164 views
you are misinterpreting the comments and not understanding the reasoning on 'sin unto death' that is being commented here.
the old testament 'sins unto death' teaching is referred to particular sins where the children of israel were stoned to death for.
they were not stoned to death for any sin.
nor
were the gentiles stoned to death.
its talking about the people that are in christ and knowing the law and committing grave sins, being in christ
and
the new testament teaching is referred to a spiritual meaning, not literal getting stones on the ground and throwing them on members of christ that have committed particular sins,
but
a spiritual concept where 'do not pray for them', as in not being able to be reinstated as free members back into the the communion of christs church, as quoted in:
1 Jn.5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
the old testament 'sins unto death' teaching is referred to particular sins where the children of israel were stoned to death for.
they were not stoned to death for any sin.
nor
were the gentiles stoned to death.
its talking about the people that are in christ and knowing the law and committing grave sins, being in christ
and
the new testament teaching is referred to a spiritual meaning, not literal getting stones on the ground and throwing them on members of christ that have committed particular sins,
but
a spiritual concept where 'do not pray for them', as in not being able to be reinstated as free members back into the the communion of christs church, as quoted in:
1 Jn.5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
to read for yoursel
Canada
Canada
20 Dec 2019 3:17
5134 views
5134 views
I'm not sure if it's the same person from Australia that keeps responding.
You started off saying this: was there only one example and for one type of sin in the old testament for which people were stoned to death?
if not,
then there isnt only one sin unto death.
... which is so completely out of context and completely irrelevant with the mention by Jesus of sin unto death in the New Testament. What a wrong and dangerous argument to say that because there were many sins in the Old Testament for which people were put to death then there must be many sins unto death in the New Testament. what logic did you use to arrive at this nonsensev This is where you don't understand Christ's fulfilling or putting to rest most of the Old Law.
and then in the subsequent comments you tried to backpedal and change the direction of your argument.
anyway that's all I'm going to say on this I'll let you have the last word hoping I may have moved the needle for you.
You started off saying this: was there only one example and for one type of sin in the old testament for which people were stoned to death?
if not,
then there isnt only one sin unto death.
... which is so completely out of context and completely irrelevant with the mention by Jesus of sin unto death in the New Testament. What a wrong and dangerous argument to say that because there were many sins in the Old Testament for which people were put to death then there must be many sins unto death in the New Testament. what logic did you use to arrive at this nonsensev This is where you don't understand Christ's fulfilling or putting to rest most of the Old Law.
and then in the subsequent comments you tried to backpedal and change the direction of your argument.
anyway that's all I'm going to say on this I'll let you have the last word hoping I may have moved the needle for you.
Will Try To Help You
Australia
Australia
21 Dec 2019 12:47
5060 views
5060 views
1). All sins that a person has committed prior their baptism is forgiven.
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: Acts 13:38
to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins Acts 26:18 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins Col. 1:13,14
putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ... ... Buried with him in baptism, ... ... through the faith ... ... hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; ... ... and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross Col. 2:11,12,13
2). A true Christian is a person who has been born of God, who has forsaken this world and forsaken sin, and has been baptised. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved Mark 16:16
3). A true Christian does not sin.
"whosoever is born of God sinneth not" 1 John 5:18 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not 1 John 3:6
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not 1 John 5:18
4). There is no point of baptism if you are going to continue to sin.
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in NEWNESS of life. Roman 6:1,2,3
5).
BUT, if a person sins after being baptised, they can still be forgiven (as long as they have not committed one of the sins unto death)
by: praying and asking for forgiveness AND rectifying the sin.
(and, as long as they do not continue committing that sin/s)
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
1 John 5:16
6).
NEVERTHELESS there "are" sins (which if committed after baptism) cannot be forgiven.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 John 5:16
We are instructed not to pray for the forgiveness of such sins. Why? Because they cannot be forgiven.
7). And the sins unto death are:
the Holy Scriptures says:
he that sat upon the throne said, ... ... unto me, Write: for these words are true ... ... Rev. 21:5
... ... the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: Acts 13:38
to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins Acts 26:18 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins Col. 1:13,14
putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ... ... Buried with him in baptism, ... ... through the faith ... ... hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; ... ... and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross Col. 2:11,12,13
2). A true Christian is a person who has been born of God, who has forsaken this world and forsaken sin, and has been baptised. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved Mark 16:16
3). A true Christian does not sin.
"whosoever is born of God sinneth not" 1 John 5:18 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not 1 John 3:6
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not 1 John 5:18
4). There is no point of baptism if you are going to continue to sin.
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in NEWNESS of life. Roman 6:1,2,3
5).
BUT, if a person sins after being baptised, they can still be forgiven (as long as they have not committed one of the sins unto death)
by: praying and asking for forgiveness AND rectifying the sin.
(and, as long as they do not continue committing that sin/s)
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
1 John 5:16
6).
NEVERTHELESS there "are" sins (which if committed after baptism) cannot be forgiven.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 John 5:16
We are instructed not to pray for the forgiveness of such sins. Why? Because they cannot be forgiven.
7). And the sins unto death are:
the Holy Scriptures says:
he that sat upon the throne said, ... ... unto me, Write: for these words are true ... ... Rev. 21:5
... ... the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8
Divorcee
Australia
Australia
7 Feb 2020 23:05
4620 views
4620 views
And whoever marries a woman that is divorced commits ADULTERY.
Matt.5:32, 19:9
Luke 16:18
Matt.5:32, 19:9
Luke 16:18
Amen
USA
USA
7 Feb 2020 23:22
4617 views
4617 views
The 7 points listed above have been the practice/understanding of the ACC/Nazarene Faith from its inception. When we stray from the truth of the Bible Satan is getting the best of us and we start fighting within the body.
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
cannot change
Australia
Australia
8 Feb 2020 0:21
4607 views
4607 views
re.
And whoever marries a woman that is divorced commits ADULTERY.
Matt.5:32,
this cannot change.
this is above all elders, elder committees, elders' decisions.....etc
he/she cannot remarry if his/her spouse has committed sin.
the bible does not give the innocent spouse to commit sin if their spouse has committed adultery.....
And whoever marries a woman that is divorced commits ADULTERY.
Matt.5:32,
this cannot change.
this is above all elders, elder committees, elders' decisions.....etc
he/she cannot remarry if his/her spouse has committed sin.
the bible does not give the innocent spouse to commit sin if their spouse has committed adultery.....
Except Fornication
USA
USA
8 Feb 2020 5:43
4584 views
4584 views
He or she CAN remarry if their spouse committed sexual immorality.
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful.”
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful.”
To: Except Fornic.
Australia
Australia
8 Feb 2020 9:59
4561 views
4561 views
IF a wife commits adultery,yes her husband has right to put her away but it does not specifically say he can remarry. "Or vice versa"
What's not clear here? When it says; who ever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery. Luke 16:18. Matt.5:32.
A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, LET HER REMAIN UNMARRIED or be reconciled to her husband.Husband not to divorce his wife.
1 Corint. 7:10 & 11
What's not clear here? When it says; who ever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery. Luke 16:18. Matt.5:32.
A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, LET HER REMAIN UNMARRIED or be reconciled to her husband.Husband not to divorce his wife.
1 Corint. 7:10 & 11
NOT HARD TO ACCEPT
Australia
Australia
8 Feb 2020 11:27
4548 views
4548 views
remain unmarried means CANNOT remarry.
because if he/she marries a divorcee committs ADULTERY.
its one thing, being able to "PUT HER AWAY"
AND
remarriage
ITS CLEAR THAT HE/SHE CAN PUT THEIR SPOUSE AWAY, BUT "ONLY" FOR THAT REASON....
NOT FOR REMARRIAGE, BUT THE ONLY REASON YOU CAN PUT YOUR SPOUSE AWAY.
AND
THEN THE NEXT STEP IS "REMARRIAGE".
WHICH
THE BIBLE STATES:
MATT.5:32
And whoever marries a woman that is divorced commits ADULTERY.
LUKE 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
because if he/she marries a divorcee committs ADULTERY.
its one thing, being able to "PUT HER AWAY"
AND
remarriage
ITS CLEAR THAT HE/SHE CAN PUT THEIR SPOUSE AWAY, BUT "ONLY" FOR THAT REASON....
NOT FOR REMARRIAGE, BUT THE ONLY REASON YOU CAN PUT YOUR SPOUSE AWAY.
AND
THEN THE NEXT STEP IS "REMARRIAGE".
WHICH
THE BIBLE STATES:
MATT.5:32
And whoever marries a woman that is divorced commits ADULTERY.
LUKE 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
why
Australia
Australia
8 Feb 2020 13:45
4533 views
4533 views
what is so hard to understand this biblical teaching??
simple
Australia
Australia
8 Feb 2020 14:15
4530 views
4530 views
B/C men want to change the BIBLE in accordance with their life style.
Fornication
USA
USA
9 Feb 2020 14:32
4440 views
4440 views
And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful.” Matthew 19:9
The Good Lord saw it fit to include the exception of Fornication. You are committing Adultery only if you remarry and fornication is NOT involved!
My faith is with the Hungarian Elders. If you spouse is unfaithful then you can remarry "in the Lord". this has been the Nazarene faith since the beginning with Froehlich.
The Good Lord saw it fit to include the exception of Fornication. You are committing Adultery only if you remarry and fornication is NOT involved!
My faith is with the Hungarian Elders. If you spouse is unfaithful then you can remarry "in the Lord". this has been the Nazarene faith since the beginning with Froehlich.
do not contradict
Australia
Australia
9 Feb 2020 21:26
4413 views
4413 views
re.
My faith is with the Hungarian Elders. If you spouse is unfaithful then you can remarry "in the Lord". this has been the Nazarene faith since the beginning with Froehlich.
not true.
and, even if it was....the bible is ABOVE any church practise that was unbiblical.
and
even if Froehlich allowed it, the bible is ABOVE Froelich's teachings.
the word "except" is referred to "allowing the innocent spouse to stop living with their guilty spouse", for only that reason.
NOT
meaning that remarriage is allowed.
these 2 verses do not contradict each other:
1).
LUKE 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
and
2).
1 Corinthians 7:11
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
My faith is with the Hungarian Elders. If you spouse is unfaithful then you can remarry "in the Lord". this has been the Nazarene faith since the beginning with Froehlich.
not true.
and, even if it was....the bible is ABOVE any church practise that was unbiblical.
and
even if Froehlich allowed it, the bible is ABOVE Froelich's teachings.
the word "except" is referred to "allowing the innocent spouse to stop living with their guilty spouse", for only that reason.
NOT
meaning that remarriage is allowed.
these 2 verses do not contradict each other:
1).
LUKE 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
and
2).
1 Corinthians 7:11
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
read slowly
Australia
Australia
9 Feb 2020 21:29
4412 views
4412 views
Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
does not contradict
LUKE 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
meaning, there is NO possible reason for remarriage.
the way matt 19:9 is worded in the sentence structure cannot over-right other bible verses to allow adultery
Except
USA
USA
10 Feb 2020 23:30
4329 views
4329 views
Why would the Bible say put away and marry another "except"... That means in plain English you are committing Adultery only if you remarry and fornication is NOT involved!
Plain English?
USA
USA
11 Feb 2020 1:04
4319 views
4319 views
I though we live by the Spirit not the letter of the Word?
all verses
Australia
Australia
11 Feb 2020 11:00
4278 views
4278 views
we need to look at ALL verses related to this issue, to get the whole picture of the meanings......
read again
Australia
Australia
11 Feb 2020 12:38
4269 views
4269 views
LUKE 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
and
Mark 10:9
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
and
1 Corinthians 7:11
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
"DONT" contradict
Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
the hungarian elders "DO" contradict:
- Luke 16:18
- Mark 10:9
and
- 1 Corinthians 7:11
Whole of Scripture
USA
USA
12 Feb 2020 6:18
4201 views
4201 views
Mosaic Law allowed bill of divorcement "because of the hardness of your heart". The bill however was to protect the victim and bind the perpetrator. The guilty party was bound not to remarry whereas the victim was free to remarry. The biggest violators of the law were the Pharisees that divorced over the slightest issue rather than reconcile their marriages.
Jesus was really indicting the Pharisees here by stating that anyone that marries one of them will commit adultery. God's preference is always to reconcile even in the case of adultery (See Hosea)...otherwise Israel wouldn't stand a chance of forgiveness for committing spiritual adultery against God by worshiping other God's.
Paul adds to the list of victims in 1 Cor. 7. He says "The Lord didn't say (Cover this issue) this but I do". They had issues of abandonment where one person in the marriage would convert to Christianity and another wouldn't. Naturally there would be arguments are disagreements and in some cases an unbelieving spouse would abandon the marriage. In this case the believing spouse would "no longer be bound" and this clearly refers to the bondage of marriage. "We have been called to peace".
It is important I think, to read the whole of scripture over specific matters and not isolate certain texts to fit a persons individual agenda. I think I speak on behalf of all believers here when I say our goal is the seek the soundest, most balanced accurate view of scripture rather than isolate, distort and use God's word as a weapon to attack.
Jesus was really indicting the Pharisees here by stating that anyone that marries one of them will commit adultery. God's preference is always to reconcile even in the case of adultery (See Hosea)...otherwise Israel wouldn't stand a chance of forgiveness for committing spiritual adultery against God by worshiping other God's.
Paul adds to the list of victims in 1 Cor. 7. He says "The Lord didn't say (Cover this issue) this but I do". They had issues of abandonment where one person in the marriage would convert to Christianity and another wouldn't. Naturally there would be arguments are disagreements and in some cases an unbelieving spouse would abandon the marriage. In this case the believing spouse would "no longer be bound" and this clearly refers to the bondage of marriage. "We have been called to peace".
It is important I think, to read the whole of scripture over specific matters and not isolate certain texts to fit a persons individual agenda. I think I speak on behalf of all believers here when I say our goal is the seek the soundest, most balanced accurate view of scripture rather than isolate, distort and use God's word as a weapon to attack.
Berean
Canada
Canada
12 Feb 2020 22:29
4146 views
4146 views
"The guilty party was bound not to remarry whereas the victim was free to remarry. "?
--If you bring that into the New Testament that would make Jesus partial doesn't it??
"The biggest violators of the law were the Pharisees that divorced over the slightest issue rather than reconcile their marriages."-- I'd like to see that claim backed up. Give me an example (your best one) biblically or historical.
"In this case the believing spouse would "no longer be bound" and this clearly refers to the bondage of marriage."-- ?
No, It's the bondage of the sin of divorce (separation)? that their free from. The context in this scripture is "if one departs", not remarriage. ?
--If you bring that into the New Testament that would make Jesus partial doesn't it??
"The biggest violators of the law were the Pharisees that divorced over the slightest issue rather than reconcile their marriages."-- I'd like to see that claim backed up. Give me an example (your best one) biblically or historical.
"In this case the believing spouse would "no longer be bound" and this clearly refers to the bondage of marriage."-- ?
No, It's the bondage of the sin of divorce (separation)? that their free from. The context in this scripture is "if one departs", not remarriage. ?
going in circles
Australia
Australia
12 Feb 2020 23:19
4138 views
4138 views
we are going in circles here, but it is very clear that no biblical text has been quoted here that proves:
- remarriage is allowed.....
nor
- remarriage is not adultery, if your spouse is still alive in the body.....
putting your spouse away for adultery is clearly biblically quoted above many times, "BUT"....does not state remarriage is allowed!!
and
marrying another is adultery, and marrying the divorced is adultery too.
............it cannot get any clearer.
there are so many places stating:
- ...........and marries "ANOTHER", commits adultery....how is it that people cannot see this?????
- remarriage is allowed.....
nor
- remarriage is not adultery, if your spouse is still alive in the body.....
putting your spouse away for adultery is clearly biblically quoted above many times, "BUT"....does not state remarriage is allowed!!
and
marrying another is adultery, and marrying the divorced is adultery too.
............it cannot get any clearer.
there are so many places stating:
- ...........and marries "ANOTHER", commits adultery....how is it that people cannot see this?????
to: going in circles
Australia
Australia
13 Feb 2020 14:54
4093 views
4093 views
I know a devil worshipper ( 18 yr old ) who married with a goats head as a symbol on the alter and blood in their cup instead of wine...
God never joined them... he later converted to Christianity - he confessed that this event was evil and wrong and repented of it... God removed his sin NEVER to be mentioned again ... spouse is nowhere to be heard of...gone!!
This previous life should never be mentioned as it is buried in baptism... so this man is not under bondage and nor does any of his previous life of which HE CONFESSED AS ERROR play a part in his new birth with Christ
If you are carnal you are the one going around in circles and cannot see that there is some sin which should not be repeated of... are you blind and cannot see this... let us see if you come back in circles
God never joined them... he later converted to Christianity - he confessed that this event was evil and wrong and repented of it... God removed his sin NEVER to be mentioned again ... spouse is nowhere to be heard of...gone!!
This previous life should never be mentioned as it is buried in baptism... so this man is not under bondage and nor does any of his previous life of which HE CONFESSED AS ERROR play a part in his new birth with Christ
If you are carnal you are the one going around in circles and cannot see that there is some sin which should not be repeated of... are you blind and cannot see this... let us see if you come back in circles
missing the point
Australia
Australia
14 Feb 2020 23:02
3993 views
3993 views
you are missing the subject.
the whole topic was 'marriage and remarriage' with born again christians in question....not prior to conversion to Christ.
the whole topic was 'marriage and remarriage' with born again christians in question....not prior to conversion to Christ.
Berean
Canada
Canada
15 Feb 2020 7:18
3951 views
3951 views
Well it should be obvious that born again believers shouldn't divorce and remarry. The sermon on the mount was addressed to his disciples.
exactly
Australia
Australia
16 Feb 2020 1:39
3885 views
3885 views
Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Berean
Canada
Canada
16 Feb 2020 9:54
3842 views
3842 views
So now what happens then when one wants to become a disciple?..a sinner repents...
The answer is that one has to look at these teachings and apply them to their lives. They need to repent of covetousness, ? judging, they need to forgive....they need to repent of fornication, as well as adultry. (Adultery can be a sin that is done once and repented of.) But Jesus says it's also a lifestyle sin, just as homosexuality is a lifestyle sin. One repents of this sin when they separte from their lifestyle.---"whosever marries her that is divoced commits"---a (lifestyle) sin that needs to be repented of.
The answer is that one has to look at these teachings and apply them to their lives. They need to repent of covetousness, ? judging, they need to forgive....they need to repent of fornication, as well as adultry. (Adultery can be a sin that is done once and repented of.) But Jesus says it's also a lifestyle sin, just as homosexuality is a lifestyle sin. One repents of this sin when they separte from their lifestyle.---"whosever marries her that is divoced commits"---a (lifestyle) sin that needs to be repented of.
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