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Spiritual and Mental Abuse in Apostolic Christian Church Nazarene in Australia
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ACCN Forum | Brunswick church order change ACCN Forum
Brunswick church order change

who allowed change
Australia
18 May 2020 23:53
4315 views
re. ACCN "Dangers of Fraternizatin" booklet

page 14 reads:

The forefathers of the Apostolic Christian Churches chose to maintain a closed community of believers. It was not closed in the sense that they did not evangelize or otherwise interact with those outside the community: it was closed in the sense that pulpits and communion tables were not shared, marriage was only with those within the fellowship, and members were expected not to worship with other churches.

Who allowed marriages to proceed at the Brunswick ACCN Church, between people from Serbia that are not ACCN members nor members from ANY other Nazarene Church with ACCN members in the USA?

note from page 14:

...."marriage was only with those within the fellowship,"......

who allowed this change?




Reason
USA
29 May 2020 11:50
4103 views
Perhaps there were problems with only marrying within a limited community.

really???
Australia
29 May 2020 22:32
4068 views
the bible cannot change for any form of justified disobedience.

deuteronomy 7:
2). And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3). Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
1 corinthians 7:
39). ......................she is free to marry whomever she wishes, only in the Lord.


there are over 100 churches in the following countries around the globe, dear one!!!!!!

romania

serbia

croatia

south america

north america

canada

australia

germany

hungary

slovakia

ukraine

austria

God rules over human
USA
7 Jun 2020 20:08
3936 views
150 years ago most married within their own congregations, especially those that lived in remote areas. Perhaps the change came because of the greater availability AND affordability of long distance transport and the possibility to choose a spouse from a more diverse gene pool which God allowed. God almighty is Lord & master over procreation and all marriages belong to Him. If it were up to human made rules alone we would surely become extinct.



Bible not man made
Australia
8 Jun 2020 12:51
3900 views
these are the words of God:

NOT

human made rules....

deuteronomy 7:
2). And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3). Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
1 corinthians 7:
39). ......................she is free to marry whomever she wishes, only in the Lord.


Taken out of context
USA
11 Jun 2020 4:48
3826 views
The verses in Deuteronomy 7 are explicitly given as a command to the nation of Israel to not intermingle with the listed Gentile nations in that chapter. That command does not have anything to do with us present Christians. Last time I checked, Christians aren't destroying Gentile nations with no mercy as this chapter in Deuteronomy states.

1 Corinthians 7:39 allows a woman to marry in the Lord. Marrying "In the Lord" does not mean "Marry within the Apostolic Christian Church denomination only".

Please read Deuteronomy 7 in historical context, as it is, and do not twist it to your own opinion. To understand and read scripture properly....just like any other book we read...…you need to ask yourself, "Who is speaking or writing?" "To whom is this being written to?" "From where is it being written?" "When was it written?" and "Why was it written?"

supply information
Australia
11 Jun 2020 11:27
3799 views
can you list over a 1000 brothers, from any christian denomination, that were in prison for the faith of Jesus in the last 100 years?
i dont think you can......
with the nazarenes, i can.....

In the Lord?
USA
12 Jun 2020 0:54
3762 views
If you "Marry in the Lord" does that mean you can marry a Police Officer, an Army Sargent, a Rock Band Drum Player/Singer, a Casino Game Dealer, etc. They all confess to be Christians too "In the Lord"!

Our Faith
USA
12 Jun 2020 1:02
3761 views
I can vividly remember Trian Florica asking at my Provings if I would promise to marry within "Our Faith"

Do we still know what our Nazarene Faith is?

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.

Information
USA
12 Jun 2020 15:13
3724 views
One only has to google Christian persecution to find the countless Christians in prison right this minute. There are many organizations dedicated to helping these people and praying for them. There are world maps of all the places on the earth where Christians are being persecuted and even losing their lives for their faith in Christ right now. Too many to count!

Think about it....
USA
17 Jun 2020 2:26
3605 views
Adding to what was stated above....having many people within a denomination go to prison for not willing to serve in a combat role, or being a Christian is not a good way to determine whether a particular denomination is somehow "set apart" or the "only obedient church in the world". There are God fearing men and women across the globe who suffer far worse persecution for their faith than those who you are appealing to. If you are going to appeal that Nazarene Christians are in the Lord because of their persecution, well then so are many others outside the denomination. Your logic doesn't really prove anything. Who are we to boast and commend ourselves as being set apart, when we fall drastically short of what is considered a "Good Church". Read scripture and look at the qualities that Jesus and Paul commends different church's in the Lord on. That's what we need to strive for as an example of being in the Lord. Simply comparing numbers of brothers and sisters in prison is not a good example at all.

Please Understand
USA
17 Jun 2020 2:58
3602 views
It's not wise to single out people as Christians based on their method of employment. Being a police officer or being a military leader is not a dishonorable profession, and can be held by a God fearing Christian. Just because the use of deadly force is necessary to defend the people and laws governing the land, does not in any way dishonor Jesus's command to love God and love man. The method of war has been use by God very frequently, so war in and of itself is not wrong. Sin is very very bad, and to battle against it and people so involved in it, it is necessary to use deadly force to protect the people being inflicted harm. I'm guessing you're not going to call the police or support the military when harm is being done to you or your loved ones.....you'll just stand idle watching it happen.

Playing drums and singing in a band is not wrong......the music and influence you are trying to give can be considered wrong. Working at a casino is debatable….lots of things to consider.

Making a promise to marry in a denomination only is pretty foolish, and should honestly be repented of for making a bad promise to make. It's very wrong to force someone to only marry in a denomination. I think it's evil for making people abide by this promise and forcing them to stay single, when they have a desire to marry. What's even more evil and outright disgusting is to audacity to tell these people that they are single because it is God's will....absolutely horrible.

Jesus taught truth
Australia
17 Jun 2020 12:23
3574 views
re. comment above on:

Just because the use of deadly force is necessary to defend the people and laws governing the land, does not in any way dishonor Jesus's command to love God and love man. The method of war has been use by God very frequently, so war in and of itself is not wrong. Sin is very very bad, and to battle against it and people so involved in it, it is necessary to use deadly force to protect the people being inflicted harm.

this is from the devil.

the old testament talks about killing the enemy.
the new testament does NOT talk about killing the enemy.

this comment is from the devil not from Jesus.

Jesus taught "love your enemy, not kill your enemy".

your comment is not backed up by Jesus.

the new testament teaches very clearly and plainly:

Ephesians 6:
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Matthew 5:
39. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

these are from the bible
and
your comments are from the devil

Correction
USA
17 Jun 2020 22:19
3551 views
The Bible plainly says that you can NOT be a a police officer or a military leader and be a God fearing Christian!

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity!



absolutely
Australia
18 Jun 2020 17:06
3504 views
.......yes, very true.



Grateful to God.
Australia
22 Jun 2020 10:29
3400 views
The freedoms that all people enjoy, including ACCN Christians are because God has allowed those things such as Police and Military to create some order in a chaotic world. We should be grateful to God for our safety and not take it for granted. Without them there would be no order at all and every one would be thrown out of their homes by foreign invaders. There are some countries that would invade very quickly if a country had no army. And can you imagine the streets if there was no police?

No order.
Serbia
22 Jun 2020 16:18
3376 views
To bad there is no Police and Military in the ACCN churches,......to keep peace in order.

will be surprised
Australia
22 Jun 2020 16:31
3374 views
............soon

there will be soon.
but, people think they will get away with it.....

"MANY" will be surprised in a very short period of time.....

Open minded
USA
24 Nov 2021 14:02
1937 views
Why are so many in the ACC stuck on ACC being a faith. Is your faith in Jesus or in a denomination that is deeply flawed and will continue to split. Sadly there's too much ignorance on here (i know because my family thinks the same as many posts on here). God is bigger than a book, bigger than a denomination and much bigger than the box we put God in.

answer is
Australia
24 Nov 2021 19:26
1929 views
But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. Matt.7:14

And a great road will go through that once deserted land. It will be named the Highway of Holiness. Evil-minded people will never travel on it. It will be only for those who walk in God’s ways; fools will never walk there. Isaiah 35:8

When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong. Ecc.8:11

favoritehoby
USA
12 Dec 2021 4:52
1778 views
I married my wife because she was a Rock and Rollin Hottie.

filth in the church
Australia
20 May 2022 17:40
1202 views
well, well...........now we are seeing it continue to other ACCN churches too!!!!!

spiritually fornication and adultery is accepted by the ACCN Elders of north america and canada.

Strassburg Road, Kitchener, has accepted multiple people within their membership as free members of the ACCN, from outside the congregation without re-baptism.......

as, Brunswick, Ohio did a few times, and so did the elder from Greenbank, Australia, by reinstating members that have committed spiritual or physical fornication, and now Strassburg Rd are following.

sad but true!!

please read, as someone previously commented on 18th May of 2020, on the "Dangers of Fraternization" booklet, on page 14, that follows:


ACCN "Dangers of Fraternizatin" booklet - page 14:

The forefathers of the Apostolic Christian Churches chose to maintain a closed community of believers. It was not closed in the sense that they did not evangelize or otherwise interact with those outside the community: it was closed in the sense that pulpits and communion tables were not shared, marriage was only with those within the fellowship, and members were expected not to worship with other churches.

who allowed the change at Brunswick, Ohio?
who allowed the change at Greenbank, Australia?
who is now allowing change at Strassburg Rd, Kitchener, Canada?


what absolute FILTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.



2 Corinthians 6:
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.



1 Corinthians 3:
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


repent only option
Australia
20 May 2022 22:31
1194 views
its clear, that God will destroy that person, the elder and the church members that agree with that sin unto death, as the person stated above that is quoted in the Bible in:

1 Cor.3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

repentance is the only option to reverse back to the bibles teaching of sin unto death theory.

those members that have fallen away, cannot be reinstated.

those outside the congregation cannot be free until they are re-baptised on the foundation of Jesus Christ.

read meaning
Australia
21 May 2022 0:46
1183 views
defile means:

- to make unclean or impure: such as

a: to corrupt the purity
b: to violate the chastity or virginity
c: to make unclean with something contaminating
d: to violate the sanctity
e: to spoil the goodness or beauty of something
f: to spoil by making it become less beautiful or pure

bible has answer
Australia
21 May 2022 12:16
1156 views
the bible cannot change for any form of justified disobedience, even if allowed or approved by elders, the elder body or elder meetings!!!!!!!

deuteronomy 7:

2). And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3). Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.



1 corinthians 7:39

................she is free to marry whomever she wishes, only in the Lord.


which biblical teaching is unclear or hard to accept???

and this too
Australia
21 May 2022 12:19
1155 views
Ephesians 5:

1. Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2. And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4. Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.



does this mean continue to have fellowship with them?

or

be not a partaker with them?



is this unclear to anyone?????

help
Australia
24 May 2022 11:18
1087 views
who allowed this change?

does anyone know?

elder names please
Australia
2 Jun 2022 0:45
976 views
does anyone know the names of the elders in question here?
and
does anyone know the names of the elders that have allowed this, been a partaker with those that conducted the work, or agreed on?



sectarians
Australia
2 Jun 2022 11:23
956 views
All you who think that only acc(NAZARENS) will be saved; "Read this"

John said to Jesus,"Master,we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
But Jesus daid to him.Do not forbid him,for he who is not against us is for us"

LUKE 9:49

wrong topic
Australia
2 Jun 2022 13:57
946 views
that's not the topic in question, dear one!!

its about spiritual and literal fornication and adultery, that are sins unto death, which defiles Christs' Church

Interesting
Australia
2 Jun 2022 15:35
940 views
Dear one!! Where did you find in the BIBLE only by the name acc-nazarenes be saved?

THE ACTS 2:21...And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.

38, Then Peter said to them,"Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;

ACTS 4:12...For there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

ROMANS 11:26...The deliverer will come out of Zion,and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. And all Israel will be saved.

You think they will have to be called acc-nasarenes to be saved?

wrong topic
Australia
3 Jun 2022 0:28
926 views
that's not the topic in question, dear one!!

its about spiritual and literal fornication and adultery, that are sins unto death, which defiles Christs' Church.

you are discussing a different issue here

Berean
Canada
3 Jun 2022 1:06
920 views
The law of Moses commanded that those who commit sins of adultery, murder and witchcraft (idolatry) be put to death. However when Jesus came He raised the bar of those sins.

Now if you look on a woman to lust- that's adultry, if you hate your brother- that's murder, if you're coveteous- that's idolatry!

to Berean
Australia
3 Jun 2022 11:29
900 views
I agree with your comment; there are some in acc-nazarene that are just that.
Looking on a woman with lust, member hate member, covet what"s not theirs and other things they do in secret and still cling to only "acc-Nazarenes will be saved."
Is their faith in Jesus or in a denomination?

missed topic again
Australia
3 Jun 2022 14:18
888 views
yes, thats true, but prior to baptism, that 'stoning to death' punishment has been eliminated.
but, again, thats not the question here.
its AFTER baptism, and AFTER receiving of the Holy Spirit, if one member committs adultery, murder, idolatary, is in question.
the spiritual discipline is then implemented and taught (not the literal stoning to death punishmnet)
thats the topic about here

inquiry
Australia
3 Jun 2022 23:30
866 views
does anyone know the names of the elders in question here?
and
does anyone know the names of the elders that have allowed this, been a partaker with those that conducted the work, or agreed on?


ready carefully
Australia
4 Jun 2022 16:34
837 views
ACCN "Dangers of Fraternizatin" booklet - page 14:

The forefathers of the Apostolic Christian Churches chose to maintain a closed community of believers. It was not closed in the sense that they did not evangelize or otherwise interact with those outside the community: it was closed in the sense that pulpits and communion tables were not shared, marriage was only with those within the fellowship, and members were expected not to worship with other churches.

This reference is referred to baptised members, not prior to coming to Christ.

Berean
Canada
6 Jun 2022 6:19
796 views
Sorry for the long post. But this subject really works me up.

So the question here is "Who is allowing change and to be more specific - among the "believers and practices" of the acc/Naz churches? - example - accepting other Christians into our church without re-baptism. "

Sorry, but that's the wrong question. Let me explain.

Frohlich along with his contemporaries, in the inception of their movement, moved in the direction to say that they are an exclusive church. And that one needs to repent and be baptized into Christ via their movement. They considered themselves as the true church. Future generations continued to grow and support that idea. There is wisdom in that to a point, however nowhere in New Testament does it support that idea. Not even in the early church until 3rd century.

The idea of those that flippantly claim to be christians saddens me when they think they can conform to this world and take up within themselves the name of Christian in vain.
These are the tares in the kingdom of God. But be careful that tares don't show up in your life or mine. We might be rejected in the end and more so if we judge! So we need to discern!

So here's the question we need to ask. Are we really following Jesus? Is the person joining the church "without re-baptism" following Jesus? Is there evidence of a repented life, not conformed to the world and a desire to be sold out to the Kingdom of God.

I wrestle with myself and the Lord as to why the Lord wants me to be in the accn. I could easily just leave to somewhere of my own liking.

As far as the acc/Naz churches accepting others - they have no reason not to! As a denomination that is slowly becoming a bunch of wide spread community churches, they will prove and accept anyone that will hold a similar paradigm that the local church holds to.

If the acc/Naz members want to preserve the "old ways" they need to seriously consider making a step in forming whatever they feel was a good standard "in their eyes" as a denomination and move forward with it. And if not, stop complaining! I'm no prophet, but my guess is that in 100 years from now, we'll just be read about in the history books by other faithful believers, as they look into our non-existing denomination that used to follow and suffer for the faith of Jesus Christ.

As far as spiritual adultery goes, the acc/Naz has a completely wrong paradigm on it. To them it's adultery when it goes against the denominations beliefs. The correct one is when it goes against the Laws of the Kingdom of Christ (something like treason). I've seen horrendous apostasy in my life time and unless you actually personally witness it you'll probably never really understand.

agree
Australia
6 Jun 2022 10:37
787 views
this teaching implemented:

ACCN "Dangers of Fraternizatin" booklet - page 14:

The forefathers of the Apostolic Christian Churches chose to maintain a closed community of believers. It was not closed in the sense that they did not evangelize or otherwise interact with those outside the community: it was closed in the sense that pulpits and communion tables were not shared, marriage was only with those within the fellowship, and members were expected not to worship with other churches.

is on the foundation of Jesus.

those who have erred off the foundation need to repent and come back on the foundation teaching of Jesus

important point
Australia
6 Jun 2022 10:44
786 views
the church shouldnt modify the fundamental biblical teachings if some within the church have changed in allowing unbiblical transformations.....

this is very important point, as most just follow on, when some elders have.

some names
Australia
6 Jun 2022 22:21
757 views
these are some accn elders that have accepted members that have committed sins unto death back into the Church as free members, or accepted in Christs Fellowship without baptism those outside the church

S.Nenadov from LaPuente, USA
W.Kurtz from Ancaster, Canada
D.Savin from Toronto, Canada
G.Bodjanac from West Akron, USA
A.Baumann from Greenbank, Australia
D.Tomic from Strassburg, Canada
W.Weinhardt from Strassburg, Canada

our elder, Paul Pentsa, hasnt changed from the original biblical teaching that we all accepted, as it was originally taught in all churches in europe, north america, south america & australia

remember
Australia
6 Jun 2022 23:22
753 views
What about elders in Hungry that allowed Hevesi from QLD to remarry;?
his ex-wife is still alive. Have you forgotten?

remember
Australia
6 Jun 2022 23:29
751 views
Oh' but someone will say she committed adultary; did she???

yes, I did forget
Australia
6 Jun 2022 23:45
748 views
Oh, yes, very true.
That I did forget.
So, the hungarian elders have allowed sin unto death too, then.
They allow adultery in Christs Church too!
Yes, that is true.

If she did committ adultery, it doesnt allow others to committ adultery, does it?

St.Matthew chapter 5, verse 32 states:
........and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.


Change
Canada
7 Jun 2022 13:14
715 views
Maybe things change? Does the Bible not teach love and acceptance? What is wrong with loving and not judging? Why try to put everything into a box that suits your interpretation of what is right or wrong? Maybe some people realize that change might be a good thing. We are not the ones to judge that is up to God in the end.

but is the question
Australia
7 Jun 2022 16:15
705 views
yes, as long as the change does not contradict any verse of the bible.

these verses cannot change for the hungarian elders nor the north american elders, that is one fundamental teaching of Christs Church.

hebrew 6:
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

this is true and cannot be altered in anyway:

1 Corinthians 3:
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Christs' church is defiled if those that have committed sins unto death are reinstated.

its not hard to believe, fathom or accept.

John 7:24
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”



read
Australia
7 Jun 2022 16:16
704 views
defile means:

- to make unclean or impure: such as

a: to corrupt the purity
b: to violate the chastity or virginity
c: to make unclean with something contaminating
d: to violate the sanctity
e: to spoil the goodness or beauty of something
f: to spoil by making it become less beautiful or pure

anyone?
Australia
8 Jun 2022 15:15
661 views
who would want to be a participant in sharing fellowship, communion or spiritually work of Christs' Church with those that have fallen away?

answer to anyone
Canada
9 Jun 2022 0:21
639 views
Is a church not the place where those who have fallen away come to participate and worship God? Would you not want to be a participant in trying to help those people find their way once again?

Are we not all sinners? The church seems the ideal and accepting place for those trying to re-connect with God and the congregation. I am sure there are many there who would want to participate with them in that journey if they choose the path to Christ.

to clarify
Australia
9 Jun 2022 10:23
611 views
- - nobody ever stated here, that those that have fallen away cannot attend the church services or the church building premises
- yes, they need to stick to church to have some hope for the judgement day, fully agree with you there
- however, the question here is discussing that those cannot be reinstated as free members of Christs Church, to share spiritual fellowship, communion or work of Christs Church
- we are getting off the topic again


rectify
Australia
10 Jun 2022 1:27
581 views
there is a difference between the following examples in these verses:

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

and

1 Corinthians 5:
9. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.



point to consider
Australia
10 Jun 2022 1:29
580 views
to: Canada

the point is about sharing spiritual fellowship, communion and work of the Church with those that have fallen away.

that is the point here.

not, avoiding them, not talking with them, or that they cannot attend the church sermons or church buildings.

Berean
Canada
11 Jun 2022 13:38
527 views
@ To : missed topic again,

The stoning to death punishment was for those that were "baptized through the sea" (1 Cor. 10) as they wandered in the wilderness. (After the law was given to Moses on mount Sinai.) It was for those that were the children of Israel.

If you use the anology that Paul uses in 1 Cor. 10, the stoning is after baptism. But we (children of the Israel of God) live under the new covenant, where the Laws of the Kingdom (sermon on the mount) are written on our hearts. So in raising the Old testament laws like I mentioned before, He also raised the bar on his teaching on forgiveness. No, there's no stoning , but severe judgment to any unrepentant sin.

When Jesus gave His laws to His disciples on the mountain, he concluded with a sad announcement on judgement day to those that thought they were following God. Depart from me were His words. ANY sin will lead to death.

new testament church
Australia
11 Jun 2022 14:02
522 views
we are talking about the new covenant for the new testament church, not old testament teaching in the old covenant
this is not the same
the new testament has a spiritual discipline, not a literal stoning to death, but a punishment as a separation that cannot be reinstated back as a free member
church cannot pray for those fallen away, or committed sins unto death, to have them reinstated as free members.
1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1 Corinthians 5:
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Berean
Canada
11 Jun 2022 14:30
519 views
@ To : answer to anyone:

We are not sinners! We are called to be saints! Sinners will not enter the Kingdom of God! Yes we still have a corruptable nature, and IF we sin, we have an advocate with the Father through Jesus Christ.

For someone that sins one of these terrible sins , I think it would be good to shun them a little while. They need to feel shame and conviction of sin. However there needs to be willing brothers / sisters to reach out to them and begin discipleship and purposeful accountability before just bringing them back to the church. Coming back to church may help, but it may tend to extend a warm fuzzy "Oh , so nice you're back..." , feeling which doesn't really help him much.

Also there needs to be true repentance. If lust is the problem, go to a flip phone and no holidays on the beach. Covetousness - need to see him get rid of his fancy stuff. Pride- he needs to take a real low profile, cut the show off attitude and talk less.

As far as our response to one who fell into what we call a sin unto death, the biblical way is to forgive as Jesus told us to forgive. But not to just carelessly bring them back in with open arms without true remorse and repentance and a transformed heart.

Berean
Canada
11 Jun 2022 14:55
513 views
@ New Testament church:

I fully understand where you're coming from. I was there with that same mind set at one point. However, I've experienced enough situations of those with complete rejections of the gospel, to be able to identify what this sin unto death is. Very sad! No we can't pray for them. They don't even want you to pray for them. And the occasion that someone does want to come back, many times the fruit of repentance isn't there. And there you have the elders bringing them back in. I disagree with how our elders are dealing with reinstatement. Nevertheless we are commanded by Christ to forgive.

yes, agree
Australia
11 Jun 2022 16:47
504 views
yes, fully understand your comment too.

any elders' cruelty towards those that have fallen away is wrong and sinful.

if those go further into sin because of the elders' actions, the elders will be accountable for that!!

we all need to help them so they dont get offended and go further into sin.

if they cannot be reinstated into being free members, doenst allow ANYONE to mistreat them, in anyway!!!

the thing in question, is can those that have committed any sin unto death, be reinstated as free members?

that is being discussed here

Berean
Canada
11 Jun 2022 22:45
492 views
According to the Laws of Christ' kingdom, yes we should reinstate.
According to the Laws of the acc/Naz , no we can't reinstate.

Bible is the answer
Australia
12 Jun 2022 0:36
484 views
according to the bibles teachings in:

Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

they CANNOT be reinstated.

look up meaning
Australia
12 Jun 2022 0:39
483 views
impossible means:
- not able to be done
- Not capable of being accomplished
- Incapable of having existence or of occurring.
- Unacceptable; intolerable.


renew means:
- to make like new
- restore to freshness
- to make new spiritually
-


continued
Australia
12 Jun 2022 0:48
482 views
we need to show love and politeness towards those that have fallen away or committed a sin unto death.

we need to forgive those that have sinned against us.

but, that doesnt allow us to reinstate them back as free members.

Jesus stated that we need to forgive those that have trespassed against us, not forgive what someone has trespassed against God.

that is up to God to deal with it, when a sin unto death is in question.

.....to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved of the Lord Jesus......that level of punishment is continual unto the day of the Lord, that their spirit be saved...(may be able to be saved on the Lords day).....this does not allow a time frame of discipline, and then able to be reinstated afterwards......it is a continual discipline unto the day of the Lord......indicating that they cannot be released from that level of punishment or discipline after a particular time frame.........
they cannot be renewed again unto repentance / after repentance.



Berean
Canada
12 Jun 2022 1:54
476 views
@ Yes, we need to take those scriptures very seriously! I wish we as a a denomination would. I wish that we as brothers together and sisters together would open up to each other and openly share our struggles and be transparent with each other. I wish we'd open all those dark, closed doors in our hearts just expose them. We wouldn't have to deal with sins unto death.

We don't even have a level of discipline when someone is coveoutous, angry, lying, proud or dressing lustfully. Let's be honest . We're good at excommunicating the fornicator but letting other sins run freely in our churches. Not to mention the on going adultery that takes place in our remarried couples. (Enough said on that one.)

I just don't see that position in the the life of Jesus. He said "go and sin no more". Of course If one continues to live in sin and loves his sin, they should be excomminicated.

If I'm wrong in taking this position of reinstatement (not without true repentance), I'd rather err on the side of forgiving and be wrong, than err on the side of not forgiving and be wrong.

I do appreciate brethren like you! You do well to keep us in check and moving towards a once saved always saved position. We should view sin as exceedingly sinfull!

yes, understand
Australia
12 Jun 2022 17:30
440 views
these verses refer to keeping Christ's Church undefiled from the world, lusts and sin.

yes, every sin needs to be taken seriously, not only sins unto death

every sin, can lead to a sin unto death.....


1 Peter 1:
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.


2 Corinthians 6:
14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,



James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.





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