| ||31 May
"I AM VERY SADDENED"
am very saddened reading this website. Instead to have open sharing of
burdens, hardships and concerns, this website is full of poisonous
comments of bad and really bad Nazarenes in Altona. I know personally
some comments written by some characters for years and years who are
full of hatred for God and Christianity.|
Yes, some "bad apples"
are there and God knows them very well, but even Jesus mentioned in His
teaching we'll have them always. So, instead of proper discussion to
Glory of God this website is becoming many times as a tool of enemy,
muddying everything and even their teaching. Shocking! May God show
mercy to those who hate His Church. And, really, really we all need
Mercy of God.
We must face the fact that many today are
notoriously careless in their living. This attitude finds its way into
the church. We have liberty, we have money, and we live in comparative
luxury. As a result, discipline practically has disappeared. What would
a violin solo sound like if the strings on the musician's instrument
were all hanging loose, not stretched tight, not "disciplined"? (AUS)
OUR COMMENT: So what do you suggest?
have a suggestion. Let's go back to the sermon Jesus preached on the
mount, and without any complicated interpretations, let's put Jesus'
words into practice. There's teachings of being the salt of the earth,
not hating you brother, adultery in the heart, forbidding divorce,
forbidding remarriage while your first spouse is living, forbidding
oaths, non-resistance, loving your enemies, doing alms discreetly, how
and where to pray, how to fast, not to accumulate wealth, not worry if
we're lacking daily needs, to be satisfied with what we have, not to
judge, not to be too proud to ask, and to walk this narrow way.
many of us actually do what Jesus laid out for us in this sermon?
If so we'll be known by our fruits. If we don't we'll be as those that
say "Lord, Lord".
probably all of us fall short of some of the teachings that Jesus
listed. I realize some of them are extremely hard to follow especially
living in such a materialistic environment. So let me ask like this.
How many of us are willing to make a deliberate attempt to walk this
narrow way? (CAN)
speak of bad apples like they do no harm to anyone, but is this really
true? And what is the Bible speaking of when it speaks of yeast in the
church? Is it those bad apples fermenting and causing a lack of
spiritual growth in others? (AUS)
May God show mercy to those who hate His church." - In reference to
that comment.. The Nazarene church is not God's church in the sense
they believe. There are too many genuine Christians aside from your
church so it's important to not elevate yourselves to a higher position
than God has afforded you all. May the grace of God reveal Jesus and
His righteousness to all who are yet to know Him. (AUS)
people in your life that can be the most difficult to deal with (or to
love) those are the relationships that will help you become more Christ
like. Don't write them of. (AUS)
To comment 3: I do not
believe that there is salvation in the Catholic church, nor in the
Jehovah witness religion, nor among the Islam belief, neither with the
Seventh Day Adventists, etc, etc. But there were false prophets also
among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who
privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that
bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many
shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth
shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with
feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long
time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. (AUS)
Respond to Comment 3;
"The Nazarene church is not God's church in the sense they believe."...
How anybody can say that? Who are you at all to mud Body of Christ?
Taking everything into your hands which belongs to God? You definitely
don't know their teaching but you enjoy your morbid attacks judging
Church of God! Don't do it! The teaching is mostly according to Bible,
I know, I was there, for years and years. Some mistakes, very often
sometimes, yes. But that is happening everywhere even more. So ask Lord
to forgive you;"The Nazarene church is not God's church". It is not
from God. (AUS)
Comment 5, Salvation is
in Jesus Christ, through Jesus Christs work on the cross for the
atonement of sins. Do not apply labels to churches making one more
outstanding than another. There is only salvation in Jesus and if that
is mans belief he is saved. The Nazarene church is not more holy than
those you mention, only to the ones who attend is that ingrained. The
number of people in the ACCN is marginal to the amount that will
receive salvation. There is not some conspiracy where everyone else
misses out but the Nazarene is saved. It's sad people are led to
believe they are more esteemed in Gods eyes. Just sad that they are
that self reliant. (AUS)
Comment 6, from commentator 3.
Who am I? I am a child of God.
do it you say. I will and I shall as I lived many years under the law
of the Nazarene church. I was unloved and invalidated because of it's
teachings and I will speak the gospel truth and be glad God has given
me a clear understanding.
Your anger is not warranted, anyone away from the church who has the gospel will know that is not how we lead people to grace.
God be constantly showing you all who are yet to see what the blood of
Christ was shed for. It wasn't for a slanging match, it wasn't to
uphold the Nazarene church, it wasn't so one could boast over another.
But rather, that all who call on the name of The Lord shall be saved.
God’s grace be with you all. (AUS)
Salvation comes from
Christ alone. It is Christ that died on the cross. To
believe that salvation comes from a church is a form of idolatry and it
makes God look small and incapable. Church is church and God is God. It
is good to fellowship in a good Church, but church is not God. Almighty
God is! (AUS)
UPDATED STATISTICS: OVER 100,000 VISITS!
scroll down to the bottom of this page and find there the updated table
of 20 countries where most of our visitors come from. All up, we have
had 108,527 visits and 16,674 unique visitors in the period from
December 2012 to May 2015. Sixty-seven percent of visits were
from Australia, 25% from the United States, and the rest of eight
percent from all other countries.
"WHY Did YOU STOP POSTING MY COMMENTS?"
Sent by a reader
OK, do not post what I've sent. I will continue to provide information
if it's needed regarding the church to the police. There are many, many
things your all guilty of. We can testify to that because we lived it.
Cruel and unjust ungodly nature of the Nazarene religion. Anyone aware
should be deeply saddened by their part in all this. (AUS).
OUR COMMENT: As
you may be aware, we are to some degree able to track our visitors,
their locations, the equipment they use, etc. This is all standard Web
technology. Looking at the last four weeks, there was a heap of
visitors from various government organizations, like rba.gov.au, which
is The Reserve Bank of Australia, from ato.gov.au, Australian Taxation
Office, wa.gov.au - Department of Finance, qld.gov.au - Queensland
Health, and many others, but not a single one from the Queensland
Police. This is why we do not believe your claims of reporting the ACCN
church to the police are genuine. Consequently, we have stopped posting
you don't explain why you'd stop posting them. Why do you think you'd
have this activity from govt sites? Like the QLD police will just pop
up? Yeah, I can just see it now. Perhaps you don't post because of the
content therein that outlines the misdeeds of the church members.
That's OK, that too will come out in due time. I thought you were
hosting the website in support of people who had been victimised and it
would appear you are also aligned with those people you originally
aimed to shame. Sadly I guess it just didn't work to your liking, did
it? To no avail and you shut down the ones who have genuine conviction
and cause to post here. (AUS)
should not automatically say that everybody who is a Nazarene is bad or
wrong. In a class of 25 students, one or two may be bad, but certainly
not all. At work, in an office of 10-50 staff, you might get say 3 or 4
that are bad workers, but certainly not all of them are bad workers.
| ||2 April
"I FEEL LIKE GOING TO THE POLICE"
| ||Dear Website Administrator, church attendees of the ACCN, and the ACCN Leadership,|
not clear to me to why this website presented itself to me, but my good
conscious will not allow me to let this go! I thought of initiating a
social media campaign #StopACCNBullying, and shining a light to your
evil crimes you have posted throughout your website. Although my heart
is steering me in another direction which is to go directly to the
police with the following crimes implicated on your website:
1. The ACCN website acknowledges that there have been past suicides. Has there been an investigation to the alleged suicides?
ACCN website posted a picture of an ill woman in a mental institution,
implicating her husband as the physical abuser. Was this man convicted?
The ACCN website has accused it’s members and leadership of theft,
taking church funds to pay for holiday expenses and other money related
crimes. Have any of these financial crimes been investigated?
ACCN website has pages of proof showing mental and physical abuse is
present. Is this church allowed to remain open due to potential
physical and mental harm it causes to its members, followers and
Ironically the ACCN members condemn people to
hell, applaud themselves for being Holy, confess that ONLY they will be
saved, yet reject these two simple laws and instructions:
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do
ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men,
especially unto them who are of the household of faith. Galatians 6:10
(Brooke Hastings, via e-mail)
OUR COMMENT: 1.
- No. 2. - No, he (Matea Lincu from Sydney) is even allowed to keep
preaching. Elder Paul Pentsa backs him up. 3. - No. 4. - It might be
hard for you to understand, but many ACCN members believe that
injustice and prosecution are inevitable and the more they suffer from
their elders, the higher wage they will receive in the afterlife.
I have a question or two… and I hope it is fair to ask, How many
suicides have there been? And what would cause these poor Christians to
lose hope to the point that they would want to die? (AUS)
OUR COMMENT: Two
suicides. They were mentaly unstable men who felt rejected from their
church in Marsden, Brisbane, and have made a wrong choice while trying
to deal with the situation. COMMENT 2:
Mate, don't crap on
about people making bad choices! If these retards you fellowship with
where not such gutless pigs these people would be alive!!! Throwing
them into mental trauma and then excusing the church when they commit
suicide is a joke. Why not hang those stones around your necks and go
disappear? Rubbish talk trying to make out they get a choice.. You
abuse someone so much they want to go die and you blame the one who
kills himself??? Do NOT pull some garbage out about sins until death
you Jesus haters! It clearly states that NOTHING shall separate us from
Him, not death mate, not anything. Read Romans 8 and kick yourselves
for being so bloody dumb that nothing is made known to you. Do NOT jump
on and harass me, I will use whatever strong and rude language I choose
and God can judge me as guilty as you think He will. Obviously He won't
because He supports my views so stick your senseless falsities and
don't waste space replying unless it's to hold yourselves accountable
for your parts in ruining people’s lives. Much crap goes on in this
church, what of the incestuous relationships that went on between a
blind ladies children and their father, and withheld from the mother
who poor thing was at the mercy of you fools??? What of the sick and
twisted things people get up to and you guys somehow parade yourselves
as good with God?? Weird, weird people, we thank God we are out and not
anywhere near that rubbish.
Because I am so sick of this
pompous air you won't stop portraying I am forwarding the details of
the 2 men you mention and this site to the QLD police. If anyone knew
they were going to kill themselves and did not help them or report it
they are liable for prosecution. It's part of the law! (AUS) COMMENT 3:
Comment 2 - You don't
have any faith in God or are repented from your sins so stop writing
these antichrist comments on this site. (AUS)
Ephesians 4:29 Let no
corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good
to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
James 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his
tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. (AUS)
"THE PRACTICE OF SHUNNING IS BIBLICAL"
I think what is most disturbing about the content here is the frequency with which Biblical commandments are slandered as abuse.
claims of abuse contain complaints that elders practice shunning. But
the practice itself is Biblical. The Lord commands Christians to "have
no company with" Christians who do not keep the traditions of the
apostles *for the express purpose of shaming them*. In II Thes. 3. Paul
directs the church to shun schismatic brethren in Romans 16:17. In his
second letter, John directs Christians not to allow Christians who
rebel against the doctrine of Christ to enter their homes. All of these
sentiments harmonize with the ultimatum Jesus gives in Matt. 18.
while it is true that a few have complained about the specific reasons
in some instances of shunning - which are things that could be debated,
most here are asserting that the fact that it is practiced at all is
proof the church is abusive.
Those of you who have left the ACCN
for churches you say are better, do your new churches teach the
biblical practice of shunning/shaming brethren who rebel against
apostolic traditions, or are you actually being taught that this is
something only abusive churches do?
the Bible commands and instructs you to shun people? The ACCN members
are called to be apostles, therefore they decide who deserves to
be shunned or accepted.
asked for specific instances of shunning? Refer to the comments listed
on this site towards people coming in from the world to visit the
church, they are ignored, avoided and rejected. Did the apostles shun
these people? Did God give the ACCN the self-righteous power to shun
whom they see not worthy?
are persistently experiencing avoidance and rejection through a
deep-seated feeling of dislike. So if an ACCN member feels that someone
is not living up to the Apostle way of life, they are instructed to
shun this person without showing mercy, compassion and hope? Is anyone
called to loving correction or is it always this cut-throat? (New York,
key of knowledge refers to the personal knowledge of the living God
through His revealed Word. As Jesus said, "This is eternal life, that
they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have
sent" (John 17:3). True religion is a matter of knowing God personally
and growing in that relationship with Him. Legalism is a matter of
going through rituals and of keeping rules, but it’s devoid of the
personal knowledge of God.In
many well-meaning but legalistic Christian homes, parents mistakenly
think that the way to keep their teenagers in line is to lay down and
enforce a lot of rules. But the way to keep your teenagers in line is
to lead them to a personal knowledge of the Holy One. He's with them
when you cannot be there. If they truly know Him and know the great
love of Christ who gave Himself for their sins, they will want to
please Him, beginning on the heart level. As our kids grow in their
walk with God, we should be able to ease up on the number of rules, not
impose more. Our goal is to get each child to live under the lordship
of Jesus Christ, in a growing personal relationship with Him. Legalism
takes an external approach; biblical Christianity focuses on the heart
reason many kids who grow up in Christian homes later reject the faith
is that the parents and the church have been shot through with
legalism. Instead of the joy of knowing God and of having our sins
forgiven through His grace, the focus was on the rules and the outward
conformity that had to be maintained so that everyone else would think
that the kids (and parents) were good Christians. I'm not saying that
Christian homes should not have any rules. But the emphasis in our
homes and church should be on the joy of knowing God. As Paul says,
"the kingdom of God is ... righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy
Spirit" (Rom. 14:17).Scripture
declares that God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble
(Prov. 3:34; James 4:6; 1 Pet. 5:5). One sure mark of the Holy Spirit's
work in our hearts is that we see ourselves as terrible sinners in the
sight of God. We see that we deserve His judgment because of our pride,
selfishness, and rebellion. Rather than comparing ourselves with others
and concluding that we are basically good, we compare ourselves with
God and conclude that no good thing dwells within us. Thus convicted of
our great need, we flee to the cross for mercy. But legalists don't
like the message of the cross, because it confronts their pride.The
cross does not endorse shunning, how can you say you love and deny
others the love of Christ as if you were a judge. You are to suffer
even those who oppose you. It's different if you were right Colorado,
however you are a legalist who practises law and is despised in the
eyes of God because you deny you are just the same as all the rest of
humanity. In God's eyes legalism is filth. You'd stone the adulteress
that Jesus set free, you'd disown the prodigal that he ran to and
embraced and you'd deny your own flesh in the name of God to further
put distance between them and God as you make Him something He is not
and excuse yourself as just doing His will.Your
conscious is obviously overwhelmed to continue to use the words you do
to provoke silence from us who disagree with you. We do not slander
God's word, we are free under grace and treat people as such. To boast
in your misbehaviour further highlights that you have none of the love
that Jesus taught His believers to have. Shunning those who seek to
bring in a message to be preached from the pulpit is vastly different
to disowning flesh and blood and enjoying the process and then throwing
it out there that God called you to those actions. The shunning is
appropriate if a Christian that has warped teaching comes in to take
the pulpit and mislead the congregation. No one is doing that, they are
asking they be allowed their own lives and experiences without the
guilt and retribution you folks dish out. You must continually suffer
yourself but that too can be death with at the cross. God's love
reaches so far and wide that it will not turn away those who are
leaving the church. Keep delving into the Gospel and stop priding
yourself on empty works that mean nothing before God. You do not have
His love if you deny your child, he forgave those that slay him.
Remember too that it was the likes of YOU, the legalist that killed him
and yet He died with you also in mind. How then can you shun when He
embraces all people?I
will always thank Him that we who have been shunned know His love and
we extend it to those who turned us away. What an ultimate act of love,
we actively love you who hates us. Even though it causes us sadness we
just do not do to you what you've done to us. I don't say it lightly
but I'm so proud to be there for my mother and father though they
denied me. When they need someone to talk to they come to me and yet
they still don't see it outwardly they know we've done to them what
Christ has done to us. We've loved them in spite of their sin against
us. That's grace! That's love and that is from God. How unrighteousness
that you'd steal God's righteousness from those who boast in Him. All
while gloating whilst you practise your misdeeds.The
legalist can take pride in himself and his attainments because he is
looking at outward matters, not at issues of the heart. He doesn't
acknowledge that his heart is just as sinful as the heart of the
prostitute or robber. If he had been reared in their circumstances or
had encountered the problems in life they had faced, he would have
engaged in the same behavior, because he had the same heart of lust and
greed. No, he sees himself as a notch above these sinners. He has
attained a righteous life by his own hard work and discipline. The
legalist is puffed up with pride.Modern
day legalists also major on the minors and minor on the majors. Some
churches and Christian parents put major attention on rules about petty
issues, such as dress codes or certain activities, but they tolerate
serious sins, such as gossip, greed, and pride. If we shun people
because of how they look, or over certain behaviors that, according to
the Bible, are not major, we are guilty of the sin of the Pharisees.Paul
instructs us, "Walk with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of
the opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with
salt, so that you may know how you should respond to each person" (Col.
4:5, 6). The metaphor of salt implies that we can and should be
provocative, but we also must speak in a gracious and sensitive manner.
But in every social contact with unbelievers, keep your purpose clear.
You're there to be the instrument of the Holy Spirit in convincing the
person about sin, righteousness, and judgment, and to proclaim the good
news of God's grace in Christ.There
is probably no sin more tolerated or more widespread in the Christian
world than legalism. It may surprise you to hear it labeled as sin.
Legalists are thought to be a bit overzealous or "uptight", but they
aren't usually thought of as sinning in the same sense as adulterers,
thieves, liars, and the like. To the contrary, legalists seem to be
concerned about holiness.Yet
the Lord Jesus had more conflicts with the legalists of His day than
any other group. It wasn't the adulterers, the robbers and that sort,
who put Jesus on the cross. It was the legalists. Later on, the Apostle
Paul had the same experience, as the legalists dogged his steps,
perverting the Gospel of the grace of God. (AUS) COMMENT 3:
Is there any difference
between shunning and bullying? Then shall two be in the field; the one
shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the
mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Make sure you that
you don't get left behind. Colorado is right. And to Comment 2:
your statements nevertheless cannot override Mat.18 Be ye holy, for I
am holy. Holiness is more important than modern-day love. You can have
peace and joy when you forsake sin. Biblical commandments were given in
order to save mankind, and to prevent mankind from going down the road
of this sinful world. A person cannot have peace/joy and sin/freedom.
It's one "or" the other. This applies to me, and you and everybody.
OUR COMMENT: "Holiness is more important than modern-day love." What an idea for a bumper sticker! COMMENT 4:
Comment 3. Good luck
calling yourself holy. That's reserved for God, we will not be left
behind as the modern day love has been unchanging since the beginning
of time. "I am the same, yesturday, today and tomorrow"... Bullying,
shunning, shaming.. Call it what you will, consider what Romans says..
Romans 3:27-28. Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what
principle? On that observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we
maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
Romans 4:5-15. Romans 4:14-15, For if those who live by the law are
heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law
brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
don't you write the before verses of Matt 5:48. Matt 5:46-47 If you
love those who love you, what reward will you get? are not even the tax
collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are
you doing more than others? do not even pagans do that?.. matt 5:48 Be
perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect. Hhhh hmmm
comment 3. Did you not and Colorado not just show yourselves to sadly
fall short as you only greet your brothers in the faith and He is quite
specific. Once again rejoice the likes of me and those who've left. We
have shown ourselves more perfect as we do not shun and shame and bully
and we greet those we do not call our brothers and yet admit we still
fall short where you somehow believe yourself to have this perfection.
And practice the very things God was highlighting make you worse than a
tax collector. We all know what they were thought to be.
not sure that you would read commentaries but for those that do look
into the Matt 5 ones as they all support one thing, we can never reach
that perfection or holiness but are shrouded in it because of our
belief in Jesus. The point of highlighting the law is to show our
shortcomings not to puff up our sense of self. One cannot support
legalism and say they are under grace as it says in Galatians 2:21 I do
not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained
through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Galatians is a direct rebuke
to the early church regarding falling into human effort and trusting in
the law and opposing grace. It's such a beautiful book and should be
read and taken for what it is and upheld by us all. Do not allow
yourselves to be trapped by the vanity of self belief. You are not holy
in the right sense, you believe you've attained some status and yet
it's Jesus' merit that provides us with the ability to boast. (AUS)
Here is an idea for a bumper sticker, better yet twitter/social media hashtags:
#ChurchSupportsBullying (Brooke Hastings, via e-mail)
"I SHOULD REPORT YOUR CHURCH" - Sent by a reader
an outsider, I only feel it right to report the ACCN to the government
officials for an investigation of child and family abuse. Any child
that is put in this kind of hostile environment is a victim of abuse.
Parents are required to protect their children, not damage them by
placing them in a religion or church where it's members antagonize and
abuse one another! (AUS).
about having the church reported. The long term mental health of us
that grew up in it is damaged. Hard to fashion a good family support
unit when we grow up the way we all did. (AUS)
Report them to ACA or 60 minutes. (AUS)
is a commission set up where we can anonymously report all and any
church abuse. Mental, physical, spiritual and have it looked into.
Perhaps selling the churches to cover the long term costs of having to
survive after leaving the church would be something the courts could
consider. Because the biggest abuse is the lack of love and the neglect
of emotional well being and that spans many families and would be a
very fair complaint. If they lost their finances we could at least feel
somewhat vindicated. I will look into this throughout the week and see
what the process of lodging a formal complaint is. Don't be afraid
people as everyone's business will come to light and we can have some
validation that it is not an acceptable upbringing to endure. (AUS)
the comment about reporting child abuse. All I can say is PLEASE MAKE
SURE YOU GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT before it causes a lot of hurt and
problems to the families and the church. I am a parent and I just could
not imagine in any way harming my own child. I for one am totally
against child abuse and YES they should be brought to justice and pay
for their SIN. Just the facts have to be 100 confirmed. CHILD ABUSE IS
A TOTAL SIN. (AUS)
course the facts would be confirmed. What's wrong with you? We'd be
reporting based on our own experiences in our own homes and at the
hands of other church members. It's OK to let it all come out, nothing
wrong with validating the miserable upbringings so many had. It will
make is feel like we have closure and affirm what was wrong all along
was not our doing. As for ACA, very good idea as they love exposing
these sorts of people.Go with God people, let's be brave and stand for ourselves and our own children so they will have great upbringings. (AUS) COMMENT 6:
Comment 4. Why caps lock
parts of your post? What would the point be in presenting facts that
were not legit?? Of course you say as a parent you couldn't hurt you
child but believe me not every parent is the same and if proven
otherwise then the claims will stand against even the best defense
these people bring. The law is not dumb, they know what abuse is. (AUS)
To the people here
talking about getting revenge by reporting church families to social
services: HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MINDS!!? What "abuse" are children
suffering in these churches?
Do you have any idea what can
happen when the authorities start "investigating" families??!! Children
could be taken from their parents, especially if the caseworker has it
in for Christians whose beliefs are not "progressive" and "open-minded"
"It will make is feel like we have closure and affirm what was wrong all along was not our doing."
you sound really concerned about "the children". Inciting the
authorities to take away children from their parents will be worth it
so you can "have closure". Is this what people become when they are
given 6 weeks of vacation every year? What wretched, hateful
monsters. (Colorado, USA)
OUR COMMENT: Just a correction: It is actually 4 weeks of holidays here in Australia.
7, I have no idea what you're talking about. You are making it sound
like there's something to hide from the authorities. Let them do an
investigation! If these above posters really think "child abuse" is
parents arguing with other Christians, let them think that. Obviously
they don't have a clue as to what child abuse is. They just rant on
about trash they have no clue about. They make it sound as if the
church supports child abuse. If there really are members that do it,
which I know they don't, it's their own fault. Not the ACC's. It's
probably people that left the church anyway and their parents disowned
them for it, so now they cry "abuse." (Akron, Ohio, USA)
comment 7. Yes, it will be worth it. Trust that God would not allow
them to be taken if no abuse is present. The law is there to protect
children and not cater to detrimental religious view points. If it is
concerning then children being taken away is probably for very sound
reasons. Scream all you want in your caps locks, you cannot deny us
closure and validation. We are all making headway by providing gracious
loving environments for our children not God will punish you legalistic
psychological pitfalls that we've had to pull away from. We were taught
all our lives that we were sinful and not worthy, we never had parents
to cheer us on or help us develop good senses of self. We deserve to
live fulfilled Christian lives and not be captive to the church and
it's condemnation. If you feel they will take children examine your
view points and see how healthy they are for a growing child and then
take it as a sign that you need to better meet your child's needs so
they don't suffer mentally later. Stop trying to bully people using the
guilt we were raised with. It will not help you at all. Thank God for
the Internet and the opportunity of justice, if it pains you then you
will just have to deal with that. (AUS)
I hope people end up getting jail time! (AUS)
Comment 8, do parents
really disown their children for leaving the church? Which church do
you go to, and would you disown your child for leaving the church?
Children and families should be in non-threatening environments, they
should feel safe and loved. If you think it is a simple matter of
"parents arguing with other Christians", think again. Do you have a
degree in Psychology, and do you understand what damages can occur in
adults and children after being exposed in setting as described
throughout this website? Comment 9, your comment is beautifully said,
thank you! (Cleveland, Ohio, USA)
Did anyone else from
Altona church grow up without very much affection from their parents?
Because I believe that the church preached a misleading message that
showing affection to your child is not putting God first. I have been
thinking, am I the only one? (AUS)
Let me correct you all.
Kids do not get abused in thus church. It's the adults who are
emotionally abused. Whoever is writing all this garbage, please go see
a doctor. You need medication! (AUS)
11 from comment 9. Thank you :) breaking the chains has been tough so I
am glad this is coming out. Thank you for posting rational comments.
Comment 8, from me you are not understanding that even though you
believe that disowning children is acceptable, one would wonder about
the nature of the person that could possibly do that. What else are
they capable of? You cannot be familiar with the Bible and justify that
parents actions. There is no support from God in these actions. He is
the ultimate long sufferer, never did He not wait for His prodigals.
Obviously the parents are not stable if that's their methodology.
That's just further validation that something is so not right to think
that is what the children look forward to upon leaving.
are now fine examples of gracious children who can love these misguided
parents and yet they neglected our needs. Culture has come far to
support people who are leaving these abusive lives and looking toward
building their own grace based family.
love casts out fear and yet we spent our childhoods afraid of what was
to come as we never could please our parents or their legalistic God.
To comment 12, I'm guessing, or possibly 13... If our parents are the
ones being abused then what is the by product of their abuse??? The
mess befalls their children. There is no way to not acknowledge what
had gone on, even in the best of families love was denied or misguided
and cold and cruel as it was conditional and formal and foreign. Yes,
we are very close to Altona members and used to go ourselves and the
same treatment ran through the families. Cold, distant and conditional
love that didn't allow us develop well as we hit adulthood. The fact
that we have come so far and continue to do so is a blessing from God,
His grace in our lives and when you've spent years in therapy you start
to really feel affirmed that it's not something we could control as
children but we grieve and change and do better to those we love. Here
is a common everyday justification for heavy handed domestic violence
situations that we may have similarly experienced "my dear, I hit you
because I love you and God commands me to discipline those in my
fold... You have only yourself to blame and the fact your nose bleeds
is a sign of God's displeasure at your behaviour, you have forced me to
take action against you"... Yeah, somehow deranged but never the adult
who was held responsible. I like to think my children are a reflection
of myself and so applaud the good I see in them and bemoan my lack of
perfection when I see them falter. I cannot blame them for my lack of
parenting skills or suppress their natural progression to satisfy my
wants for them. We are to raise them as fine examples, taking the blame
ourselves when we see we have forced them into certain behaviours
through our own neglect or mistreatment. We should seek to know what
they are good at and encourage them to flourish and build healthy
boundaries whilst allowing them breathing space. We cannot present one
view so forcefully that they are consumed with it all their days
and the impossibility of attaining what their parents desire for them.
abuse = Religious abuse, refers to abuse administered under the guise
of religion, including harassment or humiliation, possibly resulting in
psychological trauma. Religious abuse may also include misuse of
religion for selfish, secular, or ideological ends such as the abuse of
a clerical position.
abuse = Psychological abuse, also referred to as emotional abuse or
mental abuse, is a form of abuse characterized by a person subjecting
or exposing another to behavior that may result in psychological
trauma, including anxiety, chronic depression, or post-traumatic stress
Child abuse = physical maltreatment or sexual molestation of a child.
Can we look into these meanings before lecturing each others misunderstanding and or thoughts of understanding. (AUS)
commenter 9 who is doubling down on your plan to call in the
authorities. Social services do not exist so that you can get revenge
and validation. They exist to step in and save children who are
actually abused. In very liberal areas, however, a caseworker can bring
real harm to religious families where no actual abuse is occurring.
That is why functional, mature people do not abuse the reporting
system. People who abuse the system are typically so self-centered that
they themselves are dysfunctional parents, by the way.Christians
trust the Lord to judge the people they feel have wronged them,
believing "vengeance is mine saith the Lord". They do not call worldly
authorities for closure. Pretty ironic that this is being plotted on a
website whose purpose is to complain about an elder who took former
brethren to court over a church title.And, if your motives are so pure, I wonder why you first need to confirm that you could report these people anonymously?Commenter
11, do you have a psych degree? Because professionals usually do not
express support for people bragging about plans to get revenge by
contact social services with trumped up charges of child abuse.
OUR COMMENT: Dear Reader, you wrote: Pretty
ironic that this is being plotted on a website whose purpose is to
complain about an elder who took former brethren to court over a church
1. The purpose of this website is to expose
spiritual and mental abuse in ACCN in Australia. Please read the title.
The court trial in Sydney is just one of our regular topics. There is
no need to further elaborate on this.
2. We do not know who the
"I Should Report Your Church" person is. We are not associated with the
readers who announced a legal action against ACCN in Australia. If they
really decide to report the above mentioned abuse, as they promised,
this website will be watching closely how things develop.
Please pay attention on how you call other people on this website.
Words like "wretched, hateful monsters" should not be used by a person
who claims to be a devoted, conservative Christian.
16, that's OK. You are welcome to vent and continue your legalistic
misguided approach to reproach us and attack our parenting abilities.
As I stated earlier, it's not an act of revenge. The church is not
above the law, yes it's fine if the laws are God's laws the church is
breaking but they are breaking the wills and mental health of citizens
and the law has protections in place regarding this. You do realise
that valued professionals support our views as does the law. If they
had concerns about our parenting we wouldn't have our kids as we have
gone to them for help understanding why religious systems perpetuate
these behaviours. If they felt that we were unstable for coming to them
with this then obviously we'd have them to deal with. Rather culture
and the genuine Christian church supports us in being free of poisonous
ideologies and people. There is true freedom in true faith and we are
free and strong and not doing the same to you by not targeting your
posts to shame you into silence.
who have nothing to hide should stop the malice, we've dealt for
decades with the likes of you people and have nothing to hide from.
Anonymity protects people like us from vultures who would continue on
the bent you are on in manipulating and condemning us. Good luck with
that, you cannot touch us with the poison you have in your own life. If
you could we'd be joining you in condemning us. Best you thank God that
He allows for positive changes to come about, many situations that
liberate children and broken mindsets are only a plus. To Joe behind
let God deal with it is very cunning. If you want it to be between God
and your family go and live in a lawless society. We need functional
well adjusted kinsman and our laws are there to protect people from the
likes of you. (AUS)
ACCN Australia [Website]: Perhaps you should read through the II Peter
2 and the book of Jude before declaring that Christians do not issue
strongly worded rebukes to people, and yes a strong rebuke here is
warranted. Also study Jesus; rebukes: "Ye serpents, ye generation of
vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"
you believe that deceiving the authorities to get revenge and harm
innocent children in the process is not a terrible thing to do?)
16&18, I do not know the people who threatened to report the
Nazarene church to the authorities, but I do know what they are talking
about. In general, at least. Mental abuse, psychological pressure,
shunning, isolation, rejection etc. were widespread in ACCN in
Australia, and they are still used as "weapons" in current conflicts.
and their close supporters are actually those who practice shunning and
abuse more often than others. Just one example for you: many years ago,
the elder from Perth, Andrew Szabo, disowned his own daughter Carolyn,
not for leaving the faith but for choosing to marry outside Australia.
He refused to communicate and have anything to do with her, and that
was going on for years. Szabo wasn't disciplined for mistreating his
daughter (who is, technically, also his fellow Christian) which served
as a message to all other ACCN members to feel free and mistreat their
families too, in the same manner, should they find it necessary.
Szabo's daughter, Carolyn Auer, lives in Colorado, close to you, and
you most likely know each other. So why don't you simply go and ask her
how she felt back in those days? (AUS)
he he I don't call my self a religious person, and yeah I'll probably
end up burning. But if your heaven is full of your sorts, I'd rather
burn. Any who's "I'm going to report the church to authorities. I'm
going to report it to ACA, I'm going to report it to 60 minutes." All
because I want to see you all suffer and look like the right hypocrites
you all are. Selfish on my behalf? Hmm yes sir it is but well worth it
I think. Time to sit back with some popcorn and watch the fun unveil.
16, 18. You cannot get that legalism out can you? We are not the vipers
that are spreading lies. Believe me there are large large numbers
harmed and we are not in contact so we are not making up some story to
appease or bad conscious, rather we are of healthy and sound mind and
liberating others through this process. You can rant and rave and try
bible trickery but there is no Godly excuse for the behaviour of these
people and you cannot hide behind God to cover your tracks. Believe me
if there is no reason to expose people then we will consider ourselves
the trouble makers. As this is not the case STOP using condemnation!!
People have killed themselves over the ACCN, don't heap stuff on people
still dealing with their mistreatment and still fragile from the scars
of isolation and neglect of love and emotional connection. Nothing in
the bible supports your silliness so stop parading the law around like
it's a tool to whip people into silence. Either you are a perpetrator
or not familiar with the church as this is wide spread and rampant and
we are very aware of all the shortcomings of the abusers.
should children have to follow their parents? Why can one not choose
their own life path without ridicule and still live in harmony with
their folks? Only people who have issues and are abusive cut contact
with those that disappoint them. Love is in the actions, so dis
communication shows no LOVE toward the supposed rebel. Good luck when
people do start standing up for themselves, where to console yourself
then. The Bible does not support your cold heart, does not support
these beliefs so harp all you want but you have no basis for your
ridicule. Maybe thank God that you too can in turn be freed from this
abuse and go on to serve as a blessing in the lives of those you stand
here accusing. Remember my dear fellow human that is not entitled to
more than any other here in the eyes of God, remember that Satan is the
accuser. Here's a beautiful verse to remember to those that suffer "
Satan the accuser has been whispering in your ear, you just tell him
your forgiven.. He's got no business here!, it doesn't matter what
you've done, it matters what you'll heed.. There is NO condemnation
when the SON has set you free.." :) love to all those going through
this, good on God and us for sharing and helping heal the sadness that
has followed us so religiously all our lives. (AUS)
was first introduced to the ACC back in 2008, I was going through the
"repentance process", but had some conflicting issues. I attended the
ACC for 2 years, but ended up leaving and was baptized in another
denomination. During my repenting process in the ACC, I was asked the
question "If a person was to confide in me and share a sin, and if that
sin was deemed unforgivable in the ACC’s eyes, what would happen to
me?" The answer is that I would be a partaker of that sin, and that sin
would befall me if I do not expose this person. In 'most' cases once
the person’s sin is made public the entire community gossips and this
person is ostracized.
is a question to the ACC community: If the world sits back and does
nothing to stop mental abuse are we partakers in your sin?
the person from Colorado USA: Jesus said: Judge not, that ye be not
judged. For with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you
is a courageous mother who posted comments about her upbringing in your
church. She shared her experiences and sufferings. Colorado USA
'rebukes' this mother by using harsh words, dismissing and invalidating
a question to "all" the ACCN members who think that children are not
being abused: 'theoretically speaking' if a father is being abused in
your church, and he is not mentally strong to endure the trauma brought
on by your church, as a result he suffers PTSD or mental incapacity,
what are his children left with? Is it possible that they end up having
some sort of mental disorder that requires future therapy? Do they feel
loved by Jesus?
Who are the people above the ACCN leaders? Why are no actions taken to resolve the abuse? (Brooke Hastings, via e-mail)
Commenter 19, what I
know is that the father and daughter you name - and how "loving" of you
to do so! - love each other and have ongoing contact. The way you have
told this story calls into question the accuracy of everything else
that you say. (Colorado, USA)
"EVERYONE SHOULD BE WELCOME TO VISIT"
|Well I see that the building of the new church is quite on its way. A lot of hard work has gone into it. There
is a question that I am quite interested in... The Nazarene church
building is going to be quite big. I see that most of the members are
either related or related through marriage. There don't seem to be any
new members from outside of the members that are related. Are there
going to be any changes where anybody can come of the street and is
welcome to come and hear the word of God and feel free to ask what
their beliefs are? Or are they going to be ignored like in the past? I
have been to a|| number of churches and you are made very welcome and are asked 'please feel free to come and ask any questions regarding our doctrine'. Now
if anybody new walks in, they all just look at you and you don't get
acknowledged in any way. This makes you feel very uncomfortable. This
of course means... I will not be coming here anymore... Unfortunately
if this attitude continues, the church will not be growing but will
stay as it is now. There are the new generations growing up very fast.
How are they going to be trained in relation to new people coming to
Can somebody supply some photos of the new building? (AUS)
sorry for asking an off topic question, but would you be able to send
me contacts of Nazarene churches in Oslo, Sweden, or in other cities in
Sweden, if there are any? Thank you.
email@example.com (Ukraine) COMMENT 3:
Yes, there is a church in Ängelholm, near Malmo in Sweden. (AUS) COMMENT 4:
If a church is not
welcoming to those that would like or need to hear the word, then
perhaps the most fitting question that anyone should ask is; DO they
display the genuine fruit of the Holy Spirit? And if not, then why not?
LOVE - Seeks the highest good of others.
JOY - Gladness that is not based on circumstances
PEACE - Contentment, unity between people
PATIENCE - Slow to speak and slow to anger.
KINDNESS - Merciful, sweet, and tender.
GOODNESS - Generous and open hearted.
FAITHFULNESS - Dependable, loyal, and full of trust.
GENTLENESS - Humble, calm, non-threatening.
SELF CONTROL - Behaving well. COMMENT 5:
Looking at the church
spending comments, I know for a fact Melbourne's new church spending is
benefiting a certain family. Is it illegal I'm not sure, I'd love for
someone to look over it and confirm. Is it unfair to the other members
of congregation, 100%. How are all those holidays going, Janko? (AUS) COMMENT 6:
To comment 5: Janko is
an assistant Elder, so he thinks he is eligible to use church’s money
for holidays. And what to say about his wife? She does not attend
church regularly here but when there is opportunity to travel, she is
all too ready. (AUS)
Comment 6. I'm talking personal holidays with their family, not church related. (AUS)
2015 "LOST IN TRANSLATION" Sent by
have submitted a message last week and it is still not on the web side.
Did you receive the email? It was regarding what is the situation going
to me if people from outside of any faith will be welcome to come to
the Nazarene church. (AUS)
OUR COMMENT: No,
it doesn't ring a bell, we have not received any such message. Please
resend it if you still have a copy. It's true that we are experiencing
slight technical difficulties with our messaging system and a few
messages sent by the readers might have been lost. Please try to send
your messages using a PC computer with a stable connection rather than
using a mobile device. Thank you.
UNDER SCRUTINY" - Sent by
anybody requested an independent audit on the church spending and how
payments for the church new building is being made , eg. personal
credit cards then reimbursed via church income to gather card points
for their own benefit? (AUS)
both Brisbane and Melbourne should undergo audits, I'm sure certain
people of power would never allow this to happen. (AUS)
anyone asked for the names on the title of Marsden Church? Or, has
anyone asked whether someone in Marsden Church is allowed to use
Marsden Church building as security? Or is it only forbidden for
someone to use Sydney Church building as security? (AUS)
Comment 2, seriously?? They stole the bloody Sydney church and keep trying to
justify that!! No, that's unacceptable and against the law and what's
moral. Good on the judge for restoration! Stop posting here just to try
get people to post in support of you who seek to do wrong. We aren't
dumb, the whole reason Laza started this site was to get out of
returning what wasn't his. Will you post this I wonder? (AUS)
OUR COMMENT: We
are not afraid to post your comment, even though it is full of wrong
claims and expressions like "bloody Sydney church". For your
information: 1.) Laza Krnjulac never wrote a single word on this
website, nor did his sons. 2.) L.K. does not have any control over this
website. 3.) The Sydney affair is just one of the regular topics on our
website, probably not even the central one. 4.) L.K. and his late
father were two of the five initial trustees of the church building in
Arncliffe. Therefore L.K. could not have stolen what "wasn't his". L.K.
was the one paying the bills for the church, while Matea and many other
members of the congregation lived on Centrelink. 5.) Matea Lincu and
his companions lied on the court hearing held in August 2013. Matea
knew what he had signed and he's been fine with that for over six
years, as someone else was there to pay the bills. The actual problem
started when majority of the Sydney congregation tried to dismiss Matea
as their minister because he physically abused and abandoned his
mentally sick wife. 6.) Matea and Kovacevic formally won the court case
but in reality they won nothing, everyone involved in this is on the
losing end, except of course the lawyers. This whole case is a very sad
example of stubborn and foolish people being unable to simply sit
together and discuss their differences, but rather spending hundreds of
thousands of dollars on courts and lawyers. It sounds like a bad joke
to call them "Christians". 7.) The main perpetrator of this whole
disaster is the so-called "elder" from Brisbane Paul Pentsa, who
manipulated Lincu and Kovacevic in order to settle his old personal
scores with L.K. 8.) These are all well-knows facts so let's
not go again into the same circle of explaining what has
been explained on this website. Please invest some of your time in
reading the previous pages.
comment 3: It's clear with the language you use and write, whether you
are a Christian. Christians don’t use foul language in their vocabulary
either with their mouth or by writing. Simply don’t comment if you are
not going to comment in a useful way for the website and for your soul.
has his shortcomings like we all do but he is essentially a good man
whereas Paul Pentsa is one disgusting stinker destined to go to Hell
together with all his followers, and rightfully so. (AUS)
2015 - MISTAKE BY
folks, it was hard to resist the temptation :) No offence
and Mental Abuse
in ACCN in Australia -