I agree. Legalism is bondage which causes blindness. It is not the narrow road that so many in this church claim it to be. Only Jesus saves. Faith needs to be in Jesus ONLY. Faith in strictness is idolatry which God hates. (AUS)

You should not thank God that someone left Church. As that is not God's will, but may I ask you how do you interpret Rev.21:8 You cannot change the Word of God. That what the Word of God tells us to do; we will do, and that what the Word of God tells us not to do; we will not do. Whether they like it or not. (AUS)

To comment 2, from me who wrote on legalism.. Hmmm in regards to your verse, scrap the Nazarene church attendees then, they have made the second death sadly as how can men who dislocate the arms of their young children and beat their wives and cheat the govt not be liars and immoral?? Men who sleep with their wive's sisters and bash their kids because of the church, you tell me how you all sit together and call each other holy?? Cowards? YES! Sexually immoral? YES! Liars? YES!! Spare us your Bible verses, when you can present a proper body of Christians come preach your trash! Quit defending the perverts and abusers and trying to make those who rely on the mercy of God out to be the unbelievers! Half the church should be investigated, mental, physical, spiritual abuse and domestic violence toward women and kids. You are delusional and we lived through the evidence of the church so we can see hypocrites where they lie. Shame on you people for not defending those targeted by these heartless posters. Surely someone can discern truth and stand up against a cult belief system. It's cold and sad and not loving and so many of you believe it or worse know it is false and still don't stand against evil. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 4:
  
So much truth is in comment 3. So much which our family has also experienced and continue to experience. Silence in the face of evil! (AUS)
 
COMMENT 5:
  
To comment no 2: I disagree with your statement – your words are not truth. The Bible says that Christians are to love one another and you people at the Nazarene churches hate one another. I know this is true because I attended Altona for at least 15 years, and there are scores of people that will testify to this truth. Sadly, this church is full of Bible illiterates with many of them in 'leadership' roles. The congregation as a whole has spiritually maimed and tortured many young Christians who had great potential. And for this they will be judged. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 6:
  
Thank you to those posters who have replied to what I originally wrote addressing what is true. Please continue to stand up against legalism and shout out the gospel so that we can fill the hearts of the believers and those coming to their calling. Gods word says if righteousness came by law, Christ died in vain. We know that is not so. We know He came in Love and His Word does not return void. May Gods grace uplift us and restore us to His teachings of mercy and hope for all His people. We are blessed to be free of the bondage of the law and under the righteousness imparted by Christ. God is good and let us look to Him and not distort the Bible for our own satisfaction. There is no one good, no not one fit to judge but Jesus, and He nailed sin to a cross and covered our shame for all eternity past, present and future. May this resonate and inspire us to good and may we be courageous as we support those who have been oppressed for decades in the church. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 7:
  
Chill out. You guys are all worked up, big time. How about you spell out some names for me. Of the real Christians that attend the Nazarene faith, who has committed these deeds? Spell out some names next to the deeds that you mentioned so we know who committed which sin. You mentioned dislocating arms of their children, beating their wives, cheating the government, bashing their children and being immoral. On the path of Christ there is justice, judgement and mercy. Try to love, and not to hate; that way you will have more peace in your soul. I do not approve sin, by any means, but give this a go, try to concentrate on this: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

PS: make sure you do not have sin in your heart (double check) and if you do, then get rid of it. Simple. Also: on the last day, on the judgement day, you will not give account about others, but each and all of us will give an account of oneself before Him who said, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth". (AUS)
 
COMMENT 8:
  
To all who support this unfaithful lost person who needs to repent and is completely out of touch with scripture. This person starts off like "Oh my stupid people, so many here are stupid and so on." You are so bad and rude and attacking a lot of decent people. Sounds like someone drank too much, you can read the Bible all you want, your claim your kids know a lot, seems they are confused, how can say that you know Jesus or that you believe in God, that doesn't mean anything. Do you know Jesus? Does Jesus know you, Jesus says, depart from me those of you who claim to be my disciples who confessed me Lord and yet, you live as though I never gave you a law to obey. You chose to go to that church and you knew the rules, the rules are all from the Holy Bible. You seem very wild and worldly and want a lot of freedom, why leave and then bag the church, no one forced you into going, you seem like the abuser and not everyone that left is as bad as you or left for the same reason as you.  I want you to know something. God is not a derelict father. If you play around in sin and love the world and love the things of the world, if you can always be involved in the world and doing things of the world, if you want to look like them and act them, there is a good chance you know not God, and you do not belong to Him. Now if you want to start talking about law or if anyone starts talking about Biblical principles on what we’re supposed to do and not supposed to do, or how we’re to live and not supposed to live, some call it "LEGALIST". But Jesus said, depart from me those of you who live, you called me Lord, but you lived as though I had never given you a law. When was the last time you heard someone say there's not only a narrow gate into Heaven but a narrow way? Jesus indicates that one of the principal signs of being a genuine Christian is that you walk in the narrow way. Nazarenes believe is a narrow way of life and according to scripture, it's just that a few to many wolves, goats and tares have slipped in the church. You will know them by their fruits. (AUS)

Hi everyone. I found a summary about wolves in sheep's clothing from www.batteredsheep.com - Are there any wolves among your congregation who fit the description below? Christians have to be discerning (1 John 4:1), prove all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21), take nothing for granted, and search the scriptures as did the Bereans to see if what is spoken is scripturally accurate and truthful (Acts 17:11).

A great way to know if a leader is a wolf, is if they seek personal followers instead of pointing people to Jesus Christ. Wolves love to focus your attention on their supposed "authority" over your life. In summary:

Do you really believe only Elders or Ministers are abusers? What about Brothers, can they too abuse the church? (USA)

Go to Google and write Seven Sins Deadly SINS (Deadly SINS = Sins Unto Death)
Please be very careful all of you and be not deceived, for the devil is luring Christians away from the Promise from their Salvation (robbing YOU from your Salvation). When and If YOU commit one of these Deadly SINS ( = DEATH = ENTERNAL LAKE OF FIRE FOR EVER AND EVER), you will NOT inherit Eternal Life BUT eternal DEATH.
If any one would preach unto you an Other Gospel thou it be by an Angel, Elder, Minister, or a Christian BE YE NOT DECIEVED as it is written in the book of Revelations ch.22 v.18 & 19. This is for you Elder body and ALL Elders whom ye put ye selves above Jesus the Head of the Body. Ye Have put your selves above Jesus Christ, where ye should be lower than the Holy Mother, Brethren the Holy Church of God.
There can be still mercy upon your souls if ye have committed one of these great Deadly sins. God is all LOVING and IF you REPENT and CONTESS your SIN you will be left upon GODS ALL LOVING GRACE for your Salvation. AMEN. (AUS)

NOT all elder brothers in USA have changed Biblical teaching on "sins unto death".
We have Elder Doug Savin and elder assistant Walter Bodjanac that have made the changes very clearly, and are hoping to change the other elders too.
We do know of ONE Elder who very clearly continues to believe the Biblical teaching as we all were taught correctly until now on "sins unto death".
It is not enough for Walter and Doug to have made doctrinal change, Walter and Doug have also started persecuting this Elder, because this Elder DOES NOT want to change from the Biblical teaching.
We had persecution from the outside (the governments) for many years on Brothers that did not want to change from the Biblical teaching on swearing and oath, and bearing arms, and NOW we have persecution from the INSIDE, that are pushing for change.
Satan is transforming himself as an angel of light... (2 Corinthians 11:13-15) (AUS)

No, there is not only one sin unto death. BUT, even if a person commits only "one" of the sins unto death, it is considered done. Meaning: a person does NOT have to commit "all" the sins unto death, in order to be excommunicated permanently. Even committing "one" of those 'sins unto death', will cause such a person to be excommunicated permanently. BUT THIS WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT, I DO NOT WISH THIS TO ANYONE. (AUS)

The Biblical teaching in these verses:
 -       Hebrews 6: (4-6)
 -       1 Corinthians 5: (1-5), 11
 And other verses.......
CANNOT change.
Not even for ANY American elders and or elder bodies... WORLDWIDE too!!!!! (AUS)

"The Bible is clear" that blasphemy is the only sin unto death??  How on earth can you say that?! Nowhere does the word "blasphemy" appear in John's remarks about sin unto death. John discusses "a" sin unto death and "a" sin not unto death. By your reading there are only two sins. Furthermore, the Greek "sin" in "sin unto death" is "hamartia", which is translated as both singular and plural. (USA)
 
COMMENT 5:
  
Ancient Christian writings document the term "sins unto death" as a category of mortal sins, circa 200 a.d. Christian historians associate the categorical use of the term with Hippolytus, Tertullian, and Origen, who objected to a pope's decision to begin reinstating Christians who committed fornication & adultery after baptism. It really would be helpful if people would stop acting like the ACC's traditional teaching of sins unto death is just something a group of old Yugoslav men pulled from out of thin air. (USA)
 
COMMENT 6:
  
Colossians 6:10
"Nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
Colossians 1:13
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves."
Colossians 3:5
"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry."

Many in the ACCN fall in this category. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 7:
  
Can we have the Translations in Serbian put on the website? (AUS)
 

COMMENT 8:
  
According to the Holy Bible, these are the sins unto death, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8 (AUS)
 
COMMENT 9:
  
Many verses have been cited in the comments regarding very serious sins. However, not one verse specifically refers to them as sins unto death. That is why all the elders made the change, and not just Brothers Doug Savin and Walter Bodjanac. Converts are no longer questioned about it in the North American churches. The one elder referred to in Comment 1 is under discipline and has been removed from authority. (USA)
 
COMMENT 10:
  
Both the original comment for this thread and Comment 9 contain inaccurate assertions about the elder body in the US. (USA)

COMMENT 11:
  
To comment 9, this is not true and the thing that gets me is, you KNOW it's not true, so please stop spreading false information. In fact, it was recently announced in an ACC that it's false information. And the last baptism I attended recently, the converts were DEFINITELY questioned about it (I paid special attention). So just because YOU want there to be to be one sin unto death, don’t spread that the elders agreed on it because that's false. There are individuals and individual elders who believe in it and that's the end of it. Be careful, brethren, lying is a huge sin, yes, even on this website. Revelation 21:8 (USA)
 
COMMENT 12:
  
The elder referred to in comment 9 is Andrej Toth of Warren, Ohio. (USA)
 
COMMENT 13:
  
No elder or elder body did, can or will EVER overwrite the Biblical principles and teachings of "sins unto death". If they change, they are changing God's principles in their lives and towards ALL those that obey them, if somebody ever chooses to go that way. Disobedience to God's ways didn't, doesn't nor will ever be accepted as obedience to God's ways. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 14:
  
To whoever wrote comment No.9 - By your comments that means Rev.21:8 is incorrect. Interesting. Do you know better than the Holy Word of God? To be condemned to "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death", means salvation is lost. The sins named in Rev.21:8 are sins that lead to the second death. Why are these sins not sins unto death? Since those who commit these sins shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire. Rev 21:8 does not mention only one sin but eight sins. And also you are wrong in saying "all" the elders agree. It appears that those who have committed a sin unto death are the ones who insist that there is only one sin unto death. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 15:
  
To comment No.12 You should not have mentioned his name (Andrej Toth) because now they who he is and will attack Andrej until he breaks. That's how they work, and I've observed that over the years. They remove and punish the good standing brothers and preachers and ordain the bad ones. Bullying. And why are they doing this, and what is their aim? To "change" the true faith. Now to the rest I ask, is this from God or from Satan? Who are they working for? God or Satan? To comment No.9 in the true faith there is no authority but Christ. Read Matthew 20:26,26,27. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 16:
  
There is a difference from an "elder body" and from Christ's Body. These are in today’s age DEFINETLY far from each other in ALOT of ways. So, what an elder body decides to day is many times NOT accepted by Christ's Body. Because:

The SAME day of baptism in Marsden, elder assistant has acted in a VERY rude way. The video footage shows how a sister was talking to the Isak sister, I forget her name, and then Tomek comes along, doesn’t acknowledge the Isak sister at all, totally ignores her, and then takes over the conversation with this sister which Isak was talking to, and then pulls her away from the Isak sister, and then continues talking to this sister Isak was talking to. VERY rude, with absolute AWFUL attitude. And this is supposed to be an elder assistant, on the day of conducting baptism, and giving out communion!!! Still deciding whether to show the video or post to elders Taylor and Pentsa. (AUS)   Your comment?

To the person who wrote in about the video of the Asst Elder, then if you think he acted rude, I would expose him. Send the video to the elders and put it on this website as well for all to see so he can be embarrassed for all to see his actions. Sometimes embarrassment is the only way to cure someone. (AUS)

Welcome to the world of Janko Tomek. That's how he is for years & years already. That's how he was treating members at Altona when everyone gathered at Altona church & now he still treats members like that at Mt Cottrell church. Nothing new. Everyone in Melbourne already knows how Janko is. He is very rude to many members & very loving to those members who believe & support whatever he does & say. Now he has exposed himself to Brisbane church. It's about time the Marsden congregation see what Janko Tomek is really like but doing that to Isakov sister is only a very small part of rudeness to what he usually does to members in Melbourne. Show the video so everyone can see, don't be scared. Reveal him so Brisbane congregation can see for themselves how rude his nature is. (AUS)

OUR COMMENT: We are not scared to post the video, of course. We'll put it here on our website as soon as we receive it from the reader. The raw video file can be sent as an attachment to our e-mail address accnaustralia@gmail.com. Note: GMail may not let the file through due to its size, in which case we'll provide some other way of uploading.

Show the video, then Padina can really see what Janko Tomek is like. (AUS)

He's always been like that, we have known him no different. This man shouldn't even be in the front bench. (AUS)

Disgraceful man he is! Disgusting behaviour from a bully. Isaks are some of the nicest sisters in the faith!!!! (AUS)
 
COMMENT 6:
  
Such a lame effort, undercover recording of someone not shaking someone's hands.. Isn't the iPhone a devil's device anyway? You all have mental issues. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 7:
  
Post the video on YouTube or Vimeo and then simply provide a link to it. (AUS)

PAUL PENTSA in Marsden, Australia, "changes" baptismal ordinance, as DOUG SAVIN in Toronto, Canada, "changes" biblical teaching of "sin unto death".
Pentsa conducts "confession" before testimonies of converts, just to gain numbers, hence to push for unrepentant souls to enter fellowship regardless if they are ready for baptism. If the souls pass confession first would mean that they will be baptised regardless if they are ready. This is his method of favouritism as well. Pentsa also criticizes those that oppose souls that are NOT ready.
Savin changes "sin unto death" as separation from the Church rather then separation from God on sins unto death. He changes the principles of holy living. Savin also criticizes ELDERS that oppose his false teaching.
The Nazarene Church Practice wasn’t ever practised baptism this way.
The Nazarene Church Teaching remains that the Biblical teaching of sins unto death. (AUS) 

When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. (AUS)

Neko treba reci brizbanskoj crkvi da carstvo Bozje nije jelo i pice, stalno se caste kao da cine sluzbu Bogu i da prikupe jos pristalica sebi iz sveta. (AUS)
 

This site just goes to how twisted the Nazarene church is...
You all disgust me.
You are just as bad as the other crew.
You try justifying all your bullshit with bible verses when in reality your wiping your arse on it.
You are back stabbing people on this page, claiming every one is unholy when your the fucken same...
I couldn't give the shits about your church, I'm no member just know people involved with your cult...
You are all as shit as each other.
Think everyone is going to burn in hell but yourself. How about donate your time in helping the sick or the homeless instead of uploading this shit on a webpage... would god be proud of you?
Post this on your website fagot!
Post your name as well. (AUS) 

To comment No. 3 - Could you please tell us who the other crew is, as they would probably like to know as well, and that way you are giving them some feedback also which is important. And next time don't hold back, just try and modify your language a little if possible, this is a family website. (Yes I know a lot of the content is not seasoned with salt, however most people manage to avoid using obscenities, sorry, no offense intended.) (AUS)
 

To the person who wrote "Baptism the other way around" - you are totally wrong. It has always been the ordinance and practice of the Nazarene baptisms to have confession of sins before the testimony in front of the church. In the testimony converts are asked if they confessed their sins. The answer is yes. They have testified to the congregation that they have confessed their sins, so I don't know what you are talking about. I have been a believer for over 40 years and I confessed my sins before my testimony to the church, and I have been to countless baptisms in this country and other countries around the world and that has always been the ordinance practice, to confess your sins before you give your testimony before the church.

Also, there was nobody NOT ready for baptism and the person who opposed the one soul to be baptized should examine himself first. It was totally out of line for that brother to say something as what he said was not even true. Two members out of the whole church were not free for this soul, and that was this brother that opposed and his wife, and we all believe it was a personal vendetta against that soul. There was no sin involved in the person's life, and there was no reason for this person not to be baptized. This brother and his wife that opposed are young in faith as well and should stop criticizing others as they are young and need to learn more about spiritual life themselves. And what this brother said about this friend was not even true but he was just trying to make trouble. This brother should have taken up his problem with this soul before baptism if he had a personal problem with them. I think this brother and his wife should examine themselves before opposing others to be baptized. It was totally uncalled for and quite disgusting. There were many members saying how uncalled for and how disgusting it was that this brother spoke up and said the things he did that were not even true. I think we have to stop having the "Holier than thou" attitude in the church and be thankful to God that souls are seeking to be baptized and leave this world and give their lives to God. There was no other person against this soul, not the ministers, not the elder, not the deacons, no other member, just this brother and his wife. We do not know the heart nor the faith of anyone and this soul did not say anything wrong in their testimony. And if we are to trust the ministers and the Elders, then we should believe that when they counsel souls, that they would not allow them to get to that point if they themselves did not think they were ready. If it were a family member against them, then it might be different, as family knows the person best and sees their life. But if the person is not family, and you are not free, just be quiet and sit down instead of causing a scene and making trouble, and leave it to the majority of the congregation. (AUS) 

It's just very clear that the person who wrote the topic was not baptized on our side otherwise he/she would have known that's how the process goes. Everyone on our side knows that they themselves had confession before testimony in the church. Just really narrows it down on who might have written it. (AUS)   

COMMENT 7:
 
You are all a bunch of back stabbing two faced cult followers. I'm enjoying you all cutting each other's throat. Keep up the good work losers. (AUS)

COMMENT 8:
 
Many years of doing something the incorrect way doesn't justify doing it the incorrect way today. No level of disobedience did, can or will turn to obedience. When someone is questioned before the church, and passes, then the baptism is continued. Confession is the continuation after the church gives its approval. Here, we have the elders approval unconditionally anyway, regardless of the procedure or order it was or is conducted. Family are not the only members of a church, hence every member can stand up and comment how the Spirit leads them, not who the elder approves on who can or cannot comment. (USA)

To comment No.8 You are right........ and brave. (AUS)

To Comment 8 from the USA, you say over there you have the Elder's approval unconditionally anyway, so does that mean if anyone in the church is against the convert, the elders let them go through and give their "unconditional" approval anyway? So what's the point then of voting? You say yourself that your elders give unconditional approval, so then your elders have already made up their mind who is accepted and who is not. That doesn't sound to me like the church has anything to say about it then.

You were not at our baptism, and our elder did not oppose this person talking. The family was asked first of their opinions (as usually is the custom to ask the family first) and before the family even had a chance to stand up, this person stood up right away to oppose. What we are saying is that what this person said is not true about the convert and was just trying to make excuses why this convert should not be baptized. Just because you do not like someone personally does not give you the right to try to stop them being baptized. If there is no sin in their life and their testimony and questioning is not flawed, then why shouldn't they be baptized? We are not saying that a non family member cannot speak. The point is that if the family, who are the closest to the convert are free, then why should someone else have something against them if there is no sin, if they answered all the questions correctly, if their testimony is that they have victory over their former life, etc.  There is no reason but for a personal vendetta that they just don't like the person. If you see something in a convert that is unbecoming or sinful, you should approach them before it gets to the point of the Saturday night questioning. You do not know the situation over here and the case that went on between the convert and the person who opposed them. We do know the story, and that reason is no reason to stop them being baptized. It was clearly written in that comment mentioned above that if there was sin in the person's life, or if they knew that the convert did something they should not or did not make restitution, etc, then that would be a different story. But just to be against someone being baptized because you don't like them personally or have something personally against them or are jealous of them is not a valid reason. But obviously in your church over there, that doesn't matter anyway, because you said your elders approve unconditionally anyway, so taking a vote over there must just be a form of habit and must mean nothing.

There is no point to continue on this subject. I think this subject should be closed, website people. (AUS)

Comment 8, you obviously haven't been to many baptisms. These souls already went before the church when they asked for baptism and the church approved. On the day of baptism they don't need to testify again, it is only formal. The church already agreed that they should be baptized. That is why the confession is done first. You obviously have no idea about procedures in the ACCN churches. (AUS)

No, the church didn’t agree, the ELDER and ministers did. The church has little say in Marsden, as most are sleeping. Or, if they are not sleeping and stand up, then the elder attacks them.

Can ANY Marsden member prove otherwise?

If the elder was going to ask the family first and then the other members, that's fine and good. However, what if the elder DIDN'T plan to then ask the rest of the members? It would have been decided and that's it. (Seeing past experience of the elders performances.) Did the elder eventually ask the rest of the members??????

Were others free to stand up AFTERWARDS?? (AUS)

Comment 12, either you were not at the baptism or if you were, you were one of those sleeping and not listening, or maybe you are just ignorant. To the person who opposed the one soul getting baptized, he said his statement to the church (which I might ad was nonsense), and then the Elder said to him okay thank you. Then yes, the Elder did ask the rest of the congregation any others who are free to stand up, and the vote was taken, and everyone else stood up. If someone had something to say, they were free to say it. So yes, the church did agree. Stop talking about something you know nothing about. You are making yourself look very ignorant and foolish. (AUS)

James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Jeremiah 30:11
...but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

Galatians 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you...

NOTE:
Pentsa and Tomek need to:
1) Confess their faults (James 5:16)
2) Receive the correct discipline / measurement of correction, from the Church (Jeremiah 30:11)
3) And THEN be able to do work in the Church, when Christ is formed in then AGAIN.

By saying these words "I pray for forgiveness"  or "I pray to the Lord and you for forgiveness", in any way, WITHOUT making confession of the SIN, and without RECEIVING correction / discipline for the SIN is NOT sufficient reconciliation.

Pentsa and Tomek cannot serve the table of the bread and wine in SIN, and to be acceptable with God.
1 Corinthians 11:
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Whosoever serves the table of the Lord in SIN, and accepts it from those that work unworthily, participate with THEIR sin.

Many in the Church sleep, and STILL cannot see this. (AUS)
 
COMMENT 2:
  
Answer to Pentsa and Tomek is very clear:
Confession = the act of admitting that you have done something wrong or illegal:
Reconciliation = a situation in which two people or groups of people become friendly again after they have argued:
2 Samuel 12: 1-13
And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. (AUS)
   

Delusion = belief in something that is not true:
2 Thessalonians 2:
(11). And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(12). That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
1 John 5:
(17). All unrighteousness is sin.
Pentsa’s and Tomek’s manipulation to have people believe they can do Baptismal Services = a delusion from God that makes you believe what is not true, BECAUSE, you have pleasure in sin.
The pleasure of unrighteousness = allowing sin in the fellowship by not standing up in church and condemning sin.
Believing not the truth = not accepting what God condemns as sin.
1). Taking brother to court is SIN.
2). Stealing Altona Church is SIN.
3). Coveting is SIN. (wanting Altona Church when it’s not yours)
Coveteous = wanting to have something too much, especially something that belongs to someone else. (AUS)

  
JESUS WARNED US ABOUT FALSE TEACHERS
He said, "Woe to you scribes! For you load men with burdens heavy to bear, which you yourselves do not touch with one of your fingers. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You shut in men's faces the door to the Kingdom of God; for you neither enter yourselves nor let those enter who wish to come in. (AUS)

How do we know the difference? Jesus tells us that it’s actually not that difficult. Look at their lives. False teachers are more interested in themselves than others. False teachers are greedy, self-indulgent, self-obsessed and power hungry. He also warns that there are false teachers are wolves in sheep’s clothing  people who have years of experience and you think you known them but you don't, they appeared to know and teach the truth that leads to life but really they are teaching lies that lead to destruction. (AUS)

Dear writer, most of us in Australia are stunned TOO, when unrighteousness is in the Church of Christ, and MOST members are SCARED to stand up for the truth and the right.
We REALLY appreciate your concern in this matter, and hope you could assist even MORE. We appreciate people that care. This is rarely seen today. Thank the Lord and you for that.
We would like to express our sincere concern over which church are you from?
Just to look into whether there were any unrighteousness committed in your church, and how did you cope with it? This is of GREAT interest to us, so we can use your example (we hope), on how did you deal with the same or similar situation in your home church.
AND
How did you stand for the right?
AND
Did you stand up in church to back the right?
Do remember dear Friend, that Proverbs 17:15 is pretty clear to MOST, yet little can be seen the practise that proves their faith by their works.
Prov.17:15, He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
We would appreciate if you could answer these short questions and if you are willing to share it with us. (AUS) 
 
COMMENT 2:
     
To defend justice and to speak the truth is part of our covenant with God. Therefore, why do you attack us, as if we are in the wrong, when what we are doing is speaking the truth and defending justice, even if it means telling elder/s, "hey, brother, you are in the wrong". If it is an "elder" who committed a sin, it does not annul it from being a sin.
 
Re: comment No.1 - Good point. How do you stand for the right? Should we blindly follow elder/s even if they sin? (question directed to the USA believer) If you do not want to answer the question I will answer it for you, and it's, "No!" Elders cannot save you. (AUS)
   

OUR COMMENT:       From time to time we receive messages similar to this one from USA, criticizing this website and demanding its closure. We feel a need to remind our readers of this website's mission and profile, and that is to expose spiritual and mental abuse in ACCN in Australia (and overseas) as clearly stated in the website's title. Will this website ever close? No, it will not. It is here to stay, indefinitely. Two years ago, when this website was in its infancy and had no more than two or three pages, our expectations were that the abusers exposed on this website would change their ways and eventually make an effort to meet with all disgruntled church members, discuss their differences and, finally, make peace through mutual respect and love. This however never happened. Paul Pentsa, Janko Tomek and others in their group have never showed any good will whatsoever to talk to people who disagree with them. They have never tried to contact the people involved in this website's creation and maintenance. Instead, they continued with court cases, church sales, abuse and persecution. This is why this website should not be closed and will not ever be closed. This is the bottom line so please refrain from sending more demands for this website's closure, as that is something that is not going to happen.

    In answer to Comments 1 & 2:

    I am thankful you permit me to respond to your questions - though I would rather this whole website would be gone and I would not see anyone’s posts.

    You ask if and how I stand for the right? Following are the words I slowly and prayerfully chose in order to contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints. I have prayerfully submitted admonitions here two other times as well as admonished believers in my own church and other churches - though I wish to have more grace and fear of the Lord to keep His word more perfectly in this area.

    I whole heartedly want to share my name and the church I am from, but in some of the posts where individuals left their name, or the church they were from was known by their name (and they came to you in meekness and genuine love as I am doing), they were responded to in a very combative or prating manner, instead of in a manner that is with a heart of reconciliation and healing. This is where your discernment of what posts you permit (and the Lord only knows about the posts you do not permit) is clearly ungodly and very destructive to the body of Christ. And even their loved ones were provokingly brought into the conversation and smitten with angry words. If I was them (and even was innocent) I would have feared to respond due to the way you operate. I wish I could list the web pages those instances occurred on (in order to clearly point them out to you) but i fear it will be dealt with in an unbiblical fashion again, and more strife will be gendered.

    My comment is far from a demand to close this website because Love does not demand it’s own way. In the fear of God, it is only a prayerful warning to you. And just to encourage you to choose the path of right: If this website was operated in a disciplined, Godly manner that glorified God (as Greg explains much better than I can on the 2 video links below), then your efforts would receive the praise of God. But unfortunately much of the content that is allowed to be placed here is not filtered with proper discernment: namely slander, prating and deceit  (and you have to be honest with yourselves, deceit from among you also - not just the ones whom you reprove). It is UGLY to say the least. And did you know that with some of the content you allow, it is clearly evident that you are not taking into account those who are weak in faith and the little lambs who visit this site - who more easily stumble and may even fall. The Lord must judge this wrong. For your sake, and those who are weaker in the faith, I hope your eyes will be opened, you will repent and reconsider your path.

    Here are two very good videos that I came across right after finishing what I prayerfully wrote that may help you in your efforts (I have never seen them before this hour). I do not know all of Greg’s teachings so a warning to the babes in Christ, do not listen to any other videos by him until you are more mature in the faith and can discern rightly.

Greg’s advice on how to use the internet with a proper attitude to get your point across:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=831j2uefGyg

To "Our Comment": True Justice will be done - please consider what Greg says in this video, it may help to heal your bitterness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ileufIdzvQw
(USA)

COMMENT 4:
  
To comment No.3  You are discussing the "method" and type/style of this communication and of the site setup. Fine, you have a point, BUT, you are not tackling the "points" and issues(subjects) that is being discussed. Should we follow the elders even when they are wrong? You know the answer. When battling sin, should we be caressing those who are trying to lead us as astray? Spiritual battle is a battle. (AUS)
 

I wouldn't mind responding to your website if it is was run according to the 2 Chirst-like thoughts and methods Greg (in the videos) discussed. Perhaps if you removed all of the "improper" posts I would be free to comment on your concerns and leave my name (which I believe is essential for a proper Christ-like communication). (USA) 

OUR COMMENT:
  

Is this "Greg" part of our church or just another Christian speaker? Why are we listening to men who are not believers of our faith? This is a problem as well, listening to people from other denominations and taking it as the gospel truth. Let's get back to the Bible people, and leave these public speakers alone. It seems this person in USA is more concerned about living how "Greg" says we should than the Bible. I don't mind quoting scripture, but why quote a "man" and say we should listen to him? (AUS)
 
COMMENT 7:
  
I wrote comment No2 & No4 and I wish to say that I agree with comment No6. The Bible or Greg? Which will you choose? (AUS)
 
COMMENT 8:
  
To Comment 6: I think your concern helps to bring out the main point of my posts: “why I think this website is managed in a manner that is dangerous and wrong”. I am very thankful you mention there is a problem with listening to “teachers” from other denominations (which Greg is). It does have the potential for grave danger, and that is why I attempted to warn in advance “that those who watch it should be well established in the faith and not beginners”. Now I see my belief and warning was flawed, and my error is capable of causing serious danger to others.

Why? The liberty an ACCN believer takes when they learn from those “outside our faith” should be taken with EXTREME care. Even the mention of a preacher’s name in our conversation or email, or books we carry around with us in cars or church, can be misconstrued by others as “I approve, or, they are safe”. Okay maybe I’m just too vulnerable, but I have presumed this even recently on two occasions.  If our liberty causes an unbeliever to be misled, or a weak brother to perish, then we (I) will be held accountable, 1Corin8v11,12,13. Now I see that I have sinned against Christ. Before many undiscerning souls throughout the WORLD, I have placed two links that have the potential to cause souls to be lost… You might say that’s nonsense. But consider: do I know anything about Greg’s life? No. But more importantly: Do I know how his end will be and how many he could take down with him if he pursues (or is on) a bad path?

But some will say “there was nothing wrong with what I did.” Will you please pray and reconsider? If we look back, we can learn from our mistakes. I am reminded how I witnessed (over the last 15 years) so many of us ACCN believers who were seemingly “well established” in the faith, and learned from radio preachers/books/media and were later deceived. Why did we turn to them? Curiosity? Pride? Hunger? Wasn’t the Bible enough? Wasn’t His Holy Spirit powerful enough to teach us? Or perhaps there was unconfessed sin in our lives and therefore we did not receive wisdom from the Lord as we sought after, or maybe we weren’t patient enough to wait on the Lord or accept His answer of “not now”. Some have since repented and returned, but not all - some are still deceived in the false doctrines that are out there.

Clearly we, who by the grace of God have eyes to see, have seen in only the last 12 years that many ACCN believers are following a carefree attitude about sin. It has begun to permeate the church. I now see believers from our faith claim we cannot be dead to sin and we can only be wretched. They deny the power of a resurrected life as Timothy 2 prophesied. Ever learning, but not coming to the knowledge of the truth. Oh how the faith Brother Frohlich passed down to us has changed! But how? You can be certain that the liberties we take and the fraternizing with other denominations contributes. Coincidence? Clearly not.

We all know how important it is to TRY the spirits as Apostle John warns. And I think we all know there are seducing spirits that will speak lies in hypocrisy 1Timv4. And that this “TRYING” must also be applied to our own pulpits and among our own selves as well (not just other denominations). But there is the sad REALITY for the many who practice the LIBERTY of fraternization - that some of our elders still faithfully warn us against (Definition of Fraternize: “form a friendship with someone, esp. when one is not supposed to). If some 15 years ago, we who were established in the faith thought we were above deception and yet were deceived. Do you think while fraternizing that you are so strong in the faith, that you cannot be deceived? Please remember, God’s word warns us “But evil men and seducers will become worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” (2 Tim v13) What does that tell us about the even greater likelihood for deception in today’s times?  And again we are warned: “If it were possible, even the elect would be deceived”!

So I deeply apologize to all. I admit here that my faith was so poor that I felt the need for someone to help express my belief - and I chose Greg. Shame on me! The Lord will judge me. But sadly, those who manage this website promote that sin by posting it and allowing it to remain, along with other dangerous content as well. I wish now you could see why this site is so dangerous and how it sins against Christ as 1Corin8v13.

And lastly (I really tried to keep this post short), because we live in such perilous times, I pray we will all practice as the Berean’s, who once they heard, searched the scriptures DAILY if it was true - so we will not be misled with the error of the wicked, and so we may RIGHTFULLY “contend for the faith once delivered to the saints.” So to comment 7 I say: “the Bible”

Luke 21v36: Watch ye therefore and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
- For as a snare it shall come on the face of the whole earth! (paraphrased) Christians AWAKE! Jesus is coming SOON. (USA)

COMMENT 9:
  
To comment No.8 I am glad and thank God that you were strong enough to rectify, and not too proud to see. This can always be achieved if people put "our" / "I" / "me" aside and let the Word of God lead. It is very hard for very many people to put the "I" aside and put the Word of God FIRST. God can do wonders, who knows, Pentsa & Tomek may one day say sorry and overthrow (or turnaround) their errors. (AUS)

OUR COMMENT:
  

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