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20 August 2013 -
"You are a self-centred group", sent by a reader
You guys here seem quite petty. I grew up amongst the Nazarenes and they are a rare and very self-centred group. I have never encountered genuine evangelism as is biblical, the loving of those who need to have a real Jesus in their lives. I have long seen a closed minded group who seek to praise/offend each other and do not worry about the long term impact of their teaching and chastisement on their youngsters. Sadly it's almost comical to follow these pages as they really show how non influential the Nazarenes seem to be when it comes to making a Christ like impact in this world. It's good that this is the case, otherwise we would be fruit loops struggling to deal with our huge sins (seriously people the things the Nazarenes are offended by) that we were warned against all our young life!! Why shouldn't people who do the wrong thing be taken to court?? Why hide behind a bible passage to deny sin the exposure it deserves?? Believe me, Jesus is very widespread and not bound by a small group  who have no greater goal than to shelter themselves within their groups and pride themselves on being white washed tombs. Does it matter how good you appear if your heart is only glorifying itself. Sheesh, get into the real world... People are desperate for real connections, not some fake let's be holy and pat each other's back rubbish. My heart is full because God plucked me from the joy stealing life that was the Nazarene church! If you want something to fight for and expose, let it be the Gospel that really does justice to the Jesus of the Bible. Whoever runs this site, likely we know each other and so sad that as much as you plead good intent, you through your posts wording take joy in mocking those you write about. Be sure that this wanton ambition is nothing to pat yourself on the back about. Where is the support for those who were exposed to the legalism and coldness growing up in this group? What good comes of any of this? Still no gospel? Still nothing more than your own little parade?


On this coming Sunday, We wonder how many Christians will cover themselves properly when attending Church? From top to bottom, talk about disobedience. The head covering topic really hit the spot. We need revival. Come on everyone, let's begin again, love and respect for God and each other. Amen.
To the 20 August comment, you have some extremely good points that you wrote. Yes, the website seeks to mocks those who are in the wrong. Does it make them any better? Absolutely not. Are Nazarenes self-centered? I guess I never thought about it too much but we are. But Nazarenes actually used to be EXTREMELY evangelizing. You probably don't believe me but its true. Its back when the faith was spreading like wildfire throughout Europe in the 1900s and on. However, over the years, this faith "iskvarila se." It is now not only about how worldly can we be, but there is a lot of hate. So sad. This website drives my point home. And to the comment that says "so why do you look at it?" Yes, it's true I'm wrong for looking at it. And probably even wronger for posting. I used to post more in the past and realized it wasn't right. So I asked the site to post an apology but they wouldn't. That's all right. We will all give an account for ourselves. Is Paul rotten? Absolutely. But so is this website, and it certainly doesn't help me that I read it. Anyway, while most of your points are good, the part about "take him to court and don't hide behind a Bible passage but expose his sin" is incorrect. Jesus says never take a brother to court. And about exposing his sin; well I agree somewhat if they are causing havock in the church; but nonetheless Jesus says, let the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest, and then gather the tares in bundles and burn them. I don't wish this for anyone, and I pray God's mercy on us all. It's the only thing that will save us: His mercy. Not ourselves.
To the website people: Would it be possible that you delete all the rude comments about Ljubica and her head cover and whatever? What did she do for her to be plastered all over the internet like this? At least the abusers have reasons. Ljubica is innocent. And plus, someone will probably print the page out and give it to her and she will be very hurt.

OUR COMMENT: Ljubica is aware of this website and her photos. She is actually grateful for the support she received during her days in the hospital. Without that support she would probably still be locked there.

Comment 1, you can wrap yourself from head to toe in whatever you want. Revival will not come by how much the women cover themselves. True revival will come when Elders humble themselves and become Servants not rulers. Let's focus on the real problems not what just looks good on the outside. If you are right on the inside the outside will show. I do agree on your latter part of the comment. Lacking love and respect for God and each other is the root of all problems.

You need to choose who you want to serve:
1) the "Lord Jesus Christ" by following his doctrine and his example (for which you WILL be persecuted, but in the next life receive eternal joy and love and happiness)
2) "sin", this world, yourself, own desires. And interpreting (actually miss-interpreting) the Bible to suit your choices in life, for which you will find only partial or temporary satisfaction, and in the next life excruciating torment in everlasting fire, where the worm dieth not and the flame in never quenched.
These are facts. Do not be swayed by the "noise" of everyday problems.

Focus on your goal. Focus on Jesus Christ. Focus on the Word of God.
Whoever commented this, "My heart is full because God plucked me from the joy stealing life that was the Nazarene church!" Are you saying that there is no salvation in the Nazarene faith? The Nazarene faith is "Not Joy Stealing", what "joy" are you talking about? There is "joy" of this world - which is sin. And there is joy in the Lord, which every saved soul has.
The Church does not take joy away from you. Sin does.

Now in regards to the current issues, the answer is in the Word of God. Plain and simple. It is sin for a believer to take a believer to court. Sisters in the Lord need to have proper head coverings. We as Christians need to accept to carry the cross. If you do not want to carry the cross, then you are not a true Christian.
Do not render evil for evil. Turn the other cheek, this means to do good to them (also) who are mean to you. If someone is mean to you, don't be angry or hurt, you should feel pity and sorry to those people who are hurting you,
Rom 12: Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Think clearly. (For you to be able to "think clearly" you must put aside "me" and "I" and "my will" and look into the Word of God.) It has all the answers.

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogance, and the evil way, and the forward mouth, do I hate.
Psalm 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
I made the "joy stealing" comment. Yes, the joy that God gives to all those He has called by His grace. Key word there is grace. You see, I don't indulge in patting myself on the back for my efforts for God. Rather the joy that I have is in knowing Jesus gave His life for me and all my sinfulness. It's a mockery of God to say you all have no sin, weakness but not sin after baptism. Seriously people? Is there no looking into the heart at all amongst you? The joy that was stolen from me and my siblings is the joy that a forgiven Christian can have even in a sin filled world. I watched "fake" joyless people making out as if their little trials were some service to God. That they would possibly be granted heaven if they just persevered until the end. The Bible is specific in stating that God called His people, that He never forsakes those who are predestined and that we have salvation now. It is never taken away. Would you believe that your own conduct testifies to the lack of Jesus in the Nazarene church. I am blessed that those around me are evangelical Christians. They have loved The Lord for decades and are not deceived by people who look the part but have an empty heart. Believe me the bulk of you were so quick to reject the friendship when I no longer went to church. No love that wins people, no hope or kind words for those who are not prepared to pretend they are good. People, I have lived this all my life and because I know my heart I know yours as the Bible says "there is no one good, no not one.. All have turned away..." "If man lived for but one day, he would not be without sin" how then this pretend godliness? You people are infuriating in that you lie to yourselves and then try to lie to others. I look at people and see just how sad the pretence is. I see the moms who in the church are so quiet and soft, these same moms that belt their kids until they are fearful. The dads that are ordered and in control. That then go on to make their wives prisoners to large amounts of children whilst they eye off woman that they cross paths with at leisure. Seriously, why pretend? Don't bother with the whole thing about God giving kids. I've got a bunch of them, happy I have them and yet know that there are safe, Christian methods to abstain awhile to allow the body to rest, to rejuvenate etc. Not the Nazarene man! Glad mine has a heart and knows self control. Probably last place this belongs. Who knows if it will make it up and who cares. Be real people, nothing separates you guys from the world. In fact you have it worse because you believe your works are making some impact on God. At least the people who have no clue don't mock Him with their boastfulness. They are more inclined to be taken by "I do not set aside the Grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!". Gal 2:21.
Ah, no point in speaking of coverings etc. if you don't trust fully in Jesus for salvation. Ain't no working that will get you there of your own accord.
God is impartial and does not take more delight from one, then from another. He loves us all :) Stop trying so hard, no one will be one over by it as only Jesus saves!! Not religion and definitely not the works of the law. Ah, about the court. How convenient as it hides the deeds and misdoings of those in the wrong! Don't you believe for a minute that people admire lies. We bare witness by leaving and sharing with others (psychologists included to counteract the mental anguish endured for decades) the real nature of the church.
Love your own like crazy and ostracise any who leave or question.. Yeah, no fooling people there.
Reply to comment No.7: Yes, God does love us all.  Do we love one another?
Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
I am not pretending. Why do you think that I am? Salvation can be lost, (by sin). So I cannot agree with your comment that, "it is never taken away". More accurately, "It is never taken away, as long as we live according to the Word of God."
And, of course, I do not agree with the attitude of rejecting anyone.
2 Peter Ch.2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
These things are happening now. If cannot be that the Word of God be not fulfilled.
To the person who wrote comment number 7 on 20 August 2013, have a look at these verses:
1 Jn 3:6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not;
1 Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
1 Jn 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
I not only have joy, but also peace in my heart. And I would like you to have that too.
If a person sins everyday, such a person is a sinner. Does a sinner have eternal life abiding in him? Read Romans 6 in the King James version.

Re previous "sin comments", I think we must realise that some define sin differently than other Christians. In the ACC faith, it is very ingrained in all, no, we do not sin as members, and others would get mighty offended to label THEIR WEAKENESS AS SIN. But let us try to be a little objective and not subjective, boys and girls... read on...
When you blow your top, and say unkind words, a Christian may say this is a weakness. Other Christian, may do the exact same thing, and call this a sin. All unrighteousness is sin. What about lack of trust, and faith and belief in God? Definitely not an acceptable thing in the eyes of God, and how many Christians fall into this sin again and again?  As a Christian..?
This sounds pretty sinful to me, because these qualities do not honour God, and in effect you are saying, "God, I don't think you can help me."  What about unbelief in God (yes, you, who possess the Holy Spirit) that He cannot help you with your impossible issues, including your grudge with this website? Do not insult God.
I am learning a very very interesting thing. People who perhaps are not acting perfect are condemned as disobedient Christians, but the persons judging them can be sinning the greater sin because of their unloving judgemental "get away from me - you diseased NO HOPE sheep!" attitude. Any soul that knows of someone expelled in their own family, will grieve and cry, and even try to "restore" them, because they love them so much. Hello?? Would God not do EVEN MORE? We must stop thinking that God thinks and loves like us.
The prodigal son story... the other brother was all grizzly and unforgiving even though he had been the good boy and stayed home. Remember, prodigal sons and daughters can come home to God more than once. Only men shove them in the bin, and never take them out again. God doesn't do this. He looks for the lost baptised sheep, and brings them back if He can.
Do not be offended if someone says they still sin as a Christian because they may be defining sin differently than you, and not only that, some may sin, but God still forgives them. In a church of the ACC faith, when they prepared souls for baptism, if they were asked the question do you still sin, they were told to say yes. Others were offended by this... how can you say you still sin??  Well, guess what? Read on... I like this definition of sin:
"Sin is any deliberate action, attitude, or thought that goes against God. You may think of sin as an obvious act, such as murder, adultery, or theft. Although that's true, sin is also wrongdoing that's far subtler and even unnoticeable at times, such as pride, envy, or even worry. Sin includes both things you shouldn't have done, but did (sins of commission) and things you should've done, but didn't (sins of omission)". (from dummies.com)
I think I would prefer to be more truthful and say, I still sin as a Christian from time to time. A "weakness" label can be hand crafted by the enemy to make you look holier than you are, and make it look not so bad, when in actual fact, your offence still stinks in the nostrils of God. Ummm, interesting...

Regarding 20th August, comment 8.
 Seeing as no one can measure up and follow the Word of God without blemish, all have lost their salvation??
 1 John 1:8-10 says. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. This was written to the believing church and therein shows that they held themselves still as sinners, forgiven in Jesus.
 As for falling away. It just does not happen and when it appears to it goes on to say that this was to show that they were never of the elect.
 Please take a moment to read from Romans 8:28 through to the end of Romans 9. It speaks of God being the chooser and that He will choose according to his will.
 Romans 11:5-7 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would
 no longer be grace. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
 Romans 9:14-24 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharoah: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But, who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects if his wrath-prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory - even is, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
 The subject here is that we who believe have been purposed for this not by our own doing. The Bible states that God grants repentance. It is given when he decides and to whom he chooses not because of their own deeds but because that's his calling for that person.

August 20, comment 11.
Yay! A God given response.
I'm the person that wrote the original message and comment 7 and a couple of others.
The tone of those who seek to shame one who confesses to being a sinner is disheartening. However, it is from God to discard our own righteousness and take on God's righteousness so that's all ok. I am glad this is all being talked about. There will never be a day when calling sin something less is OK. For over 3 decades I have witnessed the lives of the church goers and those nearest and dearest have covered many things by calling them shortcomings instead of sin. Because of the witness that people bare one cannot be convinced that those shortcomings are anything but sins and with relief I say I have peace beyond compare and that's why I can call it what it is. I am not afraid that God will walk away or shame me.
The prodigal son, now that is the heart of God. He runs for the one that is not worthy and offends the one who would appear righteous. Isn't God good, that his love knows no bounds.
Rest assured that all who call on the name of The Lord shall be saved.
Please don't feel the need to waste time on verses that seek to shame people who confess they are sinners. God declares he is faithful and just to forgive and he is the only judge that matters. Do any of you feel like those present at the woman's stoning? Please note that Jesus said "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her". As no one is sinless who lives in the flesh, there is no need for the throwing about of guilt. Surely we've all endured this pointless and unjustified condemnation for too many decades. Jesus saves, works condem us because we can never do enough.

Just to add to comment 11. I totally agree that we must not insult God. PS: If you understood me to "in effect" mean (that I don't think God can help me), I'm sorry but you have completely missed my message.  Now in regards with some of the things that you wrote, there are some things that I agree with you. And there are some things that you wrote which I don't agree with you. Simmer down. I don't think that getting upset helps.

1 John 4:1: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:21: And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

What's the point of being baptized if we are going to continue sinning?

Romans 6:1-4: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
1 Peter 2:24: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
All that is written in The Holy Scriptures is true and correct.
1 John 3:6: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
1 John 3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
Romans 8:10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
To the person who wrote comment number 7.
You wrote: It's a mockery of God to say you all have no sin, weakness but not sin after baptism. So how do you interpret 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; ??
According to the Word of God in Romans 6:19, weaknesses do exists. (I suppose we should use the word "infirmity" rather than "weakness".)
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
How close are the meanings of these two words, "infirmity" & "weakness"?
Romans 6:20 For when ye "WERE" the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. The word "were" indicates in time past ie: before baptism.
"But now" refers to the time "after" baptism.
Romans 6:22 "But now" being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:19 proves that there IS a thing called "infirmity" or "weakness".
Comment to the person who mentioned Luke 15:27-32 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Jonah 4:8-11  And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live. And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death. Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night: And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?