ACCN Forum | COLUMBIA STATION: Deposition of Mihal Petras
4 Feb 2017 17:26
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF LORAIN COUNTY, OHIO
APOSTOLIC CHRISTIAN CHURCH-NAZARENE, INC., Plaintiff,
vs. Case No. 15-CV-188025
THE NAZARENE CONGREGATION, et al.,Defendants.
Deposition of MIHAL PETRAS
October 24, 2016, 12:56 p.m.
Critchfield, Critchfield & Johnston
4996 Foote Road
Christine M. Emery, Notary Public
On behalf of the Plaintiff:
Joseph P. McCafferty, LLC, by
JOSEPH P. McCAFFERTY, ESQ.
2001 Crocker Road, Suite 130
Westlake, OH 44145
On behalf of the Defendants:
Critchfield, Critchfield &
MONICA E. RUSSELL, ESQ.
4996 Foote Road
Medina, OH 44256
INDEX OF EXHIBITS
NUMBER DESCRIPTION MARKED
Exhibit F Complaint..................... 26
Exhibit G Letter Dated 8/29/15 From .... 72
Traian Mohan and Petar
Exhibit H Letter Dated 9/17/15 From .... 78
Traian Mohan and Petar
Exhibit I Letter From Apostolic ........ 81
Christian Church Nazarean of
North America Elder
Committee Dated 9/2/15
Exhibit K Letter From Apostolic ........ 105
Christian Church Nazarean,
Elder Committee, Dated
Exhibit L Letter to Judge Miraldi From ... 126
Dmytro Popovych and Mihal
Petras Dated 9/6/16
Exhibit M Meeting Minutes, 9/12/15...... 113
MIHAL PETRAS, of lawful age, called for examination, as provided by the Ohio Rules of Civil Procedure, being by me affirmed, as hereinafter certified, deposed and said as follows:
4 Feb 2017 17:34
EXAMINATION OF MIHAL PETRAS BY MS. RUSSELL:
Q. Could you please take your full name?
A. Mihal Petras.
Q. And your address, please?
A. 7344 Engle Road, Middleburg Heights.
Q. What's the name of the road?
A. Yes. 44130.
Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
Q. All right. So I will give you the basic rules. I introduced myself when you came in. I am Monica Russell. I represent Dorel Stefan and Petar Stefan. As we go along today, you see we have a court reporter, and she is typing down what I say to you and what your answers are. So it's very important that all of your answers are verbal. So, yes, no, whatever your answer is. Please try to avoid any head shakes or head nods, because she cannot accurately take that down. Does that make sense?
Q. And as we go along, if you could please make sure I complete my question before you answer, that would be helpful.
Q. Because as we go along, it's difficult for the court reporter if we are talking over each other. Makes sense?
Q. If any of my questions are confusing or you don't understand it, please just ask me to restate it. Okay?
Q. If you answer the question, I will assume you understood it. Is that fair?
Q. If you need to take a break at any time, just ask. I'll be happy to give you a break. I'll only ask that you answer the last question before we do. Okay?
Q. Is there any reason why you can't testify truthfully today?
Q. Are you suffering from any physical conditions --
Q. -- or mental conditions that affect your memory?
Q. What is your highest level of education?
A. In -- in back in the old country, I just finish four grade. But in Australia, I finish for the general contractor.
Q. All right. When you say the old country, which country are you referring to?
A. Old Yugoslavia.
Q. How long did you live in Yugoslavia?
A. For 34 years.
Q. Okay. What year did you leave Yugoslavia?
A. 1978, in March.
Q. And where did you go after that?
A. Cleveland, Ohio.
Q. How long did you live in Cleveland?
A. Five years.
Q. So until about 1983?
A. Yeah. '84, January 7, I am leave to Australia, me and my family.
Q. And why did you go to Australia?
A. For a better life. I have family over there, friends.
Q. Where did you live in Australia?
A. Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane.
Q. What was the last one?
MR. McCAFFERTY: You know your Australian cities. I didn't pick that up.
Q. And how long did you live in Australia?
A. Until 2000 -- I think end of '99, 2000. I coming back to the United States.
Q. And where did you go in the United States when you came back?
A. One year in Florida, Naples.
Q. You were in Naples for a year?
4 Feb 2017 17:47
Q. And then where did you go?
A. Cleveland, Ohio.
Q. Have remained in Cleveland since about 2001?
A. Can you repeat the question?
Q. I'll restate that. Did you get to Cleveland then in about 2001?
A. 2001, yes.
Q. And have you stayed in Cleveland since then?
A. I stayed in Cleveland, but I work in 50 states. I -- my work is all over the America.
Q. Okay. What type of work do you do?
Q. What company do you work for?
A. My company, Padina Construction.
Q. Can you spell that?
A. Padina, P-A-D-I-N-A. Padina Construction.
Q. Who owns that company?
Q. Does anyone else own it?
A. My son is my partner, so he is going to take it over.
Q. And what's your son's name?
A. Mihal. Mike.
Q. Is your son usually called Mike?
A. Mike, yes.
Q. Have you ever been convicted of a felony?
Q. Are you a member of the church at 23295 Royalton Road in Columbia Station?
Q. How long have you been a member at that church?
A. From 2001.
Q. How did you become a member?
A. I come into Cleveland and I announced. I visit to the church and announced in Columbia Station and they accept me and my family.
Q. Have you been a member of the church from 2001 until today?
A. Yes, today.
Q. Was there ever a time that you left the church?
Q. Did you leave the church in 2010 or 2011?
A. I left in 2010 to Australia for visiting. We supposed to be over there for four months, but because of so much -- we have so much problem with group, 2011, so we say, me and my son, we don't want to come back anymore. So we just write an e-mail to David Nicholson that we going to disannounce from Columbia Station. And David Nicholson didn't let us. And Mr. Petar Stefan was very hard on that, don't let them go.
Q. They wanted to keep you --
Q. -- as a church member?
A. Yes. So we stay and continue to be members in Columbia Station. So they didn't accept our resignation.
Q. Did you e-mail Mr. Nicholson from Australia?
Q. How long were you in Australia, then?
A. I think probably four to six months, I'm not sure exactly.
Q. And then you came back?
Q. Why did you want to disannounce at that time?
A. Because that was a lot of pushing people around. And that group was -- family members, they left. They were pushing out of the church. And they drag us involving us, all church, in that mess. And I wasn't happy to continue in that. They coming back and just continuing in same mess.
Q. What was the source of the problem in 2011 that caused this group of people to leave?
A. Very silly problem. The one minister, he bought a tractor. And for the tractor, we have an argument, these people, they arguing for the tractor until they pushing them out. Many members, one Sunday, disannounce at one time. It was very shame. For the tractors was so much, so much problem. So much problem.
Q. So the sole source of the problem in 2011 was the tractor?
A. The tractor and Mr. Petar Stefan, he, every Sunday, bring something from computer. He against that Stefan -- what do they call? Steve Mandreas. Steve Mandreas, about his kids. All these kids. These kids, they do this. These kids, they do that. And every Sunday he bring something from computer. And until the day they go after them and Dorel Stefan go to his car. What you waiting? Why you don't go already? That's Mr. Dorel Stefan. He go to his car and just go and leave. Leave the church. Leave the church. We called many times, David Nicholson. We have a meeting, members meeting. On members meeting I pointed always, David, do something with the church. He cannot do everything by self. He is the only elder. Members of the church have to do vote.
4 Feb 2017 18:02
Q. Okay. Let's slow down a little bit. I'm a bit confused. I'm just trying to talk right now about 2011. My understanding from you is that there was a dispute about a tractor; correct?
Q. Okay. What else was causing this dispute in 2011?
A. Look, I -- every time I wasn't in the church because I work in 50 states. Sometimes I stay two months out. One time we stay for -- for work in Texas, I think for three months. Every time I wasn't with my son and presence in the church.
Q. So you might not know of everything that was going on --
A. Not everything.
Q. Make sure you let me finish my question.
Q. Okay? So it's true, you might not know of everything that went on in 2011?
Q. Did Steve Mandreas leave in 2011?
A. He leave 2011 with family members, same time. They, one Sunday, they disannounce all family.
Q. Where does Steve Mandreas live right now?
A. I don't know. Hinckley somewhere. I don't know.
Q. Have you asked him to be a witness in this case?
A. We asked him. He say, we was pushed out. He don't want nothing do with us. And I call him back because the -- partially they would say, I was the helping to push them out. I was the one. Even my son will say, you pushed that Steve Mandreas out. Well, I talked to Steve Mandreas many time. I call him back. I called the committee. I told them, I am agreed and we agreed, committee, if they can bring them back all and back to that many staying like was before, but these people always --
Q. Let's slow down. There were some parts of your testimony there I didn't understand. So when is the last time you talked to Steve Mandreas?
A. Probably four months ago. I didn't call him now. I didn't call him but, how --
Q. How did you talk to him, then, if you didn't call him? Did you go visit him?
A. I visit him in McDonald. Be me and my son and my son-in-law and Steve Mandreas. We have a meeting in McDonald and we have a telephone call.
Q. Who is your son-in-law?
A. John Dowd.
Q. And what did you discuss with Steve Mandreas when you met with him about four months ago?
A. Oh, we discuss about if he coming back, back to the church. And he say, I cannot coming back. They don't accept me back. That is the Stefan. And end of day he say, I coming back if your son-in-law, John Dowd, will come. I say why is that? He say, I like him, and if he come and disannounce from Akron and come into Columbia Station, he say, I coming.
Q. So Steve Mandreas said he will come back to the church if John Dowd also came to the church?
Q. And you were mentioning before something about you contacting the elder committee about this?
A. We ask many times David Nicholson to call the committee and bring them all back. And David, he say all the time, soon they coming home. I call the committee and I going to ask them for help. And we solve the problem. Not to go further like -- like it is. We are in a very, very nasty situation.
Q. Okay. When is the last time you talked to Dave Nicholson?
A. When he -- when he -- when church was closed. We -- I don't think I -- I meet him few times in Akron, but I didn't talk to him.
Q. We were just talking about the elder committee. Is that the elder committee of the Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean of North America?
Q. And what is -- when I say the church, I mean the church on Royalton Road. Okay?
Q. What is the church's relationship with the ACCN elder committee?
A. First they say, I just want to answer how the church operating here.
A. Okay? The -- if church, we don't have an elder in the church. We call elders from other state and even if needed, if necessary, from Europe or whatever.
Q. So right now you do not have an elder?
A. No, it's just for moment in Columbia Station, we don't want to say we don't have an elder, because we have a meeting with elders, but we have elder which call just last week, if we need it -- to him to come into court, testify for us, he will come.
A. Matei Augustinov. He call me and he say, talk to your lawyer and tell him, if needed, he going to pay himself ticket and he going to come in to testify for us.
[to be continued...]
4 Feb 2017 18:44
Are we getting more of Petras' disposition?
4 Feb 2017 20:17
Sure. This is only around 10 percent of it.
5 Feb 2017 16:41
Hmmm...so even Misa's son says his father kicked out Steve...ok NOW we're getting somewhere....
5 Feb 2017 17:31
So it's true that Petras group and Stefan group were once together and trying to get Columbia members to leave. Now petras group know personally how it feels when you get kicked out of a church you love. It's nice to see mihal petras saw what he and Stefan's did was wrong and repented from it. So when is David nikolson and Stefan's going to repent.
5 Feb 2017 17:44
5 Feb 2017 17:51
5 Feb 2017 18:16
David told which group they would not be welcomed or accepted. Is it the Petra's group or the big group that resigned their membership in 2011.
5 Feb 2017 18:28
David has some big ego problem telling people they're not welcome b/c he still has to see and greet these people when they meet up at different churches.
5 Feb 2017 20:51
We have received this message from "Mediator":
>> Hi, can you please remove my two comments? Thank you very much.
5 Feb 2017 21:09
Q. Let's back up. My question was, in general, what is the church's relationship with the ACCN elder committee?
A. Elders committee, they helping to make a peace in the churches. And if needed to work, like baptism. It is more soul. So they come in more -- more people, more elders, to help it out.
Q. So they help to make peace in the church?
Q. So is it fair to say that they try to mediate conflicts when there is a conflict?
A. Well, they suppose to. We probably wouldn't be here today if they did. They supposed to.
Q. They didn't do it in this case?
A. In this case they didn't do it, because David Nicholson, probably 15 times, ignore it, call that committee. And probably couple weeks ago the -- Willy Kurtz and Dushko Dragojlovic, they come in. And we say to him that we call, we argue David, that was in the church, from all the members meeting. And Willy Kurtz, he say, I did not see not one call, not from you, not from David Nicholson.
Q. Let's hold up just for a moment here, so we don't get too far ahead of ourselves. I was still back at defining what the church's relationship is with the elder committee. So it's my understanding they are supposed to help with conflicts in the church. And is it also true that they do spiritual work in the church, the elders?
A. Well, yes.
Q. And they do baptisms, marriages?
Q. Do they do anything else other than that spiritual work and trying to mediate disputes?
A. I don't think so. They just -- they have to help to church whatever need church related to conflict or spiritual work.
Q. Okay. Does the ACCN elder committee have the ability to remove a church trustee?
Q. Do they have the authority to tell somebody they are not a member of the church?
A. They -- what they have to do, what they can do. We have a vote. This was you doing now here, this is the law for the government law. But before God nobody answering to the government law. So if -- if we have some dispute, the elders come in and they helping out whatever is necessary to do. And if -- if they have to put somebody under punishment, they can put it. What -- we don't talking about the law of the land.
Q. What do you mean to put somebody under punishment?
A. If somebody make a sin and need to be put under discipline. Every organization have a -- have a group of -- or any regulation. And the regulation have to be obeyed. Same thing, like Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean or Catholic. Everybody have a rule.
Q. What kind of punishment can they put on somebody? Like, what's the effect of saying somebody is under punishment? What does that mean?
A. That means somebody steal something.
A. Like in this case, they steal the church.
Q. Now, Mr. Petras, nobody stole the church in this case. What --
MR. McCAFFERTY: Objection.
Q. -- I am asking you --
MR. McCAFFERTY: Move to strike.
Q. -- is what --
A. I can --
Q. -- type of punishment did they install?
A. I can say that two people, father and son, and you help them out. They come in, they close the church, say everybody out. And if somebody come in on the premises, we going to call to 911. So --
Q. Mr. Petras --
A. -- who does that?
Q. -- let's go back to what my question actually is. You are saying that the elder committee can put somebody under punishment. What does it mean to put somebody under punishment? Does it mean they can't go to church anymore? Does it mean they have to pay a fine? What does it mean to --
A. No, it doesn't mean they have to pay a fine.
Q. What does it mean to say somebody is under punishment?
A. Under punishment, he doesn't have nothing to -- responsibility, like a trustees, treasury. He cannot be free member.
Q. Oh. Well, I'm a little confused, because you told me before that the ACCN elder committee could not remove somebody --
A. I know.
Q. -- from the --
A. I know, but the church, they can do.
Q. The church can?
5 Feb 2017 21:22
A. The church. But on their presence. They have to be on their presence when the punishment coming up.
Q. I'm sorry. Hold on. They have to be under what?
A. In their presence in the church. And they have to be quoting the work.
Q. Who has to be under presence in the church?
A. Church by self cannot put it under punishment nobody. We have to have an elder.
Q. So you need the ACCN elder committee's permission --
Q. -- to --
A. Not just permission. They have to be under presence. They have to quote leading the word. They have to be voting with the church. By self, they cannot do nothing. But with the church -- and the church -- they have to ask the church. If church agree, if church doesn't agree for punishment or whatever, they cannot do this.
Q. Okay. So the ACCN elder committee can only say that somebody's not a member of the church if the rest of the church agrees?
Q. Okay. Does the church have any written rules that say who can be a written member of the church?
Q. Does the church have any written rules that say how a vote can be taken?
A. Well, in this case, we --
MR. McCAFFERTY: Hold on a second. You said written rules before the last question, you mean -- the questions on rules are all about written rules; right?
MS. RUSSELL: Yes.
MR. McCAFFERTY: Okay. You understand that?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
A. Well, we didn't have written rules. Some time ago they -- when they build that church, I wasn't here. And I don't know how -- how they done it. I remember, you know, in Australia we had a constitution.
A. And they was written -- written rules. And they was followed --
Q. All right. Mr. Petras, but I'm only talking about the church here in Columbia Station.
A. I know. I know.
Q. Correct me if I am wrong here, is there any written rules for voting for the church?
Q. All right.
A. No. But majority, we practice -- we practice here, majority of the church.
Q. Okay. If you could listen to my question, though, and answer the question I'm asking you, I think this will go a little more quickly. Does the church have any written rules that say how a trustee is appointed?
A. At this time, no.
Q. Does the church have any written rules that say how a trustee can be removed?
A. It is not written. We don't have a written.
Q. I'm going to hand you what I have previously marked as Exhibit F.
(Thereupon, Defendants' Exhibit F, Complaint, was previously marked for purposes of identification.)
Q. Mr. Petras, I can tell you that Exhibit F is a copy of the complaint filed by the Plaintiff in this case. Have you seen this document before?
Q. You have never seen the complaint?
A. I delivered everything to my son and he just -- he just look at it.
Q. Okay. Well, we are going to go through and talk about some of these allegations in the complaint. First of all, let me ask you this. Are you a trustee of the church?
A. Yes, now.
Q. You think you are?
Q. And why do you think you are a trustee of the church?
A. Because church was voting, as we always done it. We voting before the members meeting, one Sunday before. And George Zula, he resigned. And they vote me out -- they vote me in. Majority. That actually was 100 percent.
Q. Did that happen at the September 11th --
Q. -- 2015 meeting?
Q. And, again, make sure you wait until I ask the full question before you answer. Okay?
A. (Witness nodding affirmatively.)
5 Feb 2017 21:40
Q. I would like to ask you some questions about the allegations that were made on behalf of the Apostolic Christian Church Nazarene, Inc., in the complaint. First of all, who made the decision to file this complaint to begin with?
A. Who make a decision?
A. We make a decision.
Q. Who is we?
A. That -- the Apostolic Christian Church member, what was pushed out of the -- of the church.
Q. I don't think I understand that answer. When you say, we made the decision to file the complaint, who is we?
A. Remaining members who was pushed out of the church. That was, I don't know, members or 14, whatever the number was. We was pushed out on the street.
Q. And how did the members make this decision to file the complaint?
A. We was talking to the committee and we was waiting from the committee answer. And they give us the instruction, how we can file that, the lawsuit.
Q. Who contacted the ACCN elder committee about this issue to begin with?
A. When the problem was, because Mr. Petar Stefan and Dorel Stefan, they wanted many times sell the church. And they openly say they want to sell the church. And we have a lot of argument and we call the committee and --
MR. McCAFFERTY: Mike, you got to listen to what she is asking you. You're not responding to the question she just asked you. So let her ask it again. Listen carefully to what she is asking you and try to answer her question. Okay?
THE WITNESS: Okay.
MS. RUSSELL: Can you read it back?
A. Myself and Dmytro Popovych.
Q. Who did you talk to at the ACCN elder committee?
A. Mark Meister.
Q. Is that last name M-E-I-S-T-E-R?
A. I'm not sure how that is spelled.
Q. You spoke with Mark Meister?
Q. Where is he located?
A. In Maryland somewhere. Maryland.
Q. Marian, Ohio?
Q. Oh, Maryland?
A. Maryland, yeah.
Q. So did you call Mark Meister?
Q. And would you have called him, let's say, beginning of September of 2015?
A. When they close the church that time we call them. And I don't know how many times we call them up. So we call them more time.
Q. So you called Mark Meister multiple times?
Q. And he is a member of the ACCN elder committee?
Q. And he is he the one that told you to file the complaint?
A. Well, they -- they agreed to file, not to sue nobody for money or for jail or for anything. Just to reinstate the name of the church. That was argument from ACC (sic) elders.
Q. Who else, other than Mark Meister, was involved in the ACCN elder committee?
A. I don't know who he was talking to. This was Willy Kurtz and Dushko Dragojlovic.
Q. When did the members of the church decide to file the complaint?
A. We was waiting probably two, three months until they give us the answer. Probably two months.
Q. Did the members of the church hold a meeting to vote on filing the complaint?
A. No. We agreed, everybody, to file this lawsuit.
Q. So there was no vote about it?
A. We didn't even have a church at that time. It was members, the few members in Akron, the other in Brunswick, in Cleveland. We was to get out of the church. We didn't -- only on September 12th we have a meeting, at that time we was together. But other than that, we was all over Ohio. All over the, you know, the few member, Brunswick --
Q. Okay. The question --
MS. RUSSELL: Can you repeat the question?
Q. That was my question, was there a vote about filing the complaint?
A. No, they didn't voted.
Q. Okay. In general, does your faith allow you to file a complaint against fellow church members?
7 Feb 2017 23:08
A. Yes, in this position, because they they done it. They stole the church. They are not free members anymore. That's why. We didn't file to bring the charges to reinstate the name of the church, to return the church back as it was before.
Q. Who said they weren't -- and who are you referring to, they? Are you referring to Petar Stefan and Dorel Stefan?
A. How do you say? Can you repeat the question?
Q. You are using the word they, are you referring to --
Q. -- Petar Stefan --
Q. -- and Dorel Stefan?
Q. And you said, they are not free members of the church?
Q. Who said that they are not free members of the church? Who made that decision?
A. Well, that -- whatever they done it, they been under punishment. And this time we was voting, not yesterday, Sunday before. We voting, 100 percent, they cannot come in back to the church anymore.
Q. When did this vote take place?
A. Last Sunday. Not this Sunday, Sunday before.
Q. So you had another church meeting?
A. Yeah. We have a meeting. Because you asked on the deposition if -- if they can come in back to the church, so --
Q. So you had another church meeting last weekend?
A. Not yesterday.
Q. Okay. So a week ago this past Sunday?
Q. And what was voted on at the meeting?
A. I been asked -- because on the three deposition you make it, you ask if they can come in back to the church. So I have been asked, because I have to go to my deposition, I've been at the church if they willing to accept them back. And everybody say, how? They lock us out and now they coming back? What they going to do to us when they coming back?
Q. So if the church is reopened, the members of the church, including yourself, will not allow Dorel Stefan --
Q. -- and Petar Stefan back in the church?
Q. Isn't that interfering with their right to practice their religion?
A. They can practice their religion and put everybody on the street? And don't give a heat for all members on the wintertime. Don't give a water, shut the water, so pregnant woman not go to toilet. And they to have come back free members? Yesterday the kids go to the restroom, he wash the hands, he close the hot water. We don't have hot water. They just -- they just --
Q. You are getting far afield --
A. I know.
Q. -- from the question.
A. I know. I have a feeling, because everybody -- we have a 82 years, two women sitting over there in cold. Whole winter.
Q. In the church?
A. In the church, yes.
Q. You are there for two hours on Sundays; right?
Q. And this past Sunday was in the 60s?
A. But why you think for 82 years old woman? How you think that -- she is like baby.
Q. Mr. Petras, you have to control yourself, sir.
Q. You are getting -- sounds like you are getting a little passionate about this and you're extending your answers far longer than the questions I'm actually asking you. So can you please try to listen to the question and only answer what I'm asking. Okay?
Q. Who was involved in preparing the complaint for this case, other than Mr. Kraus?
A. John Dowd, my son-in-law.
Q. Why was John Dowd involved in preparing the complaint?
A. Because he is a member of the church and he is my son-in-law. And he wanted to come into Columbia Station. He wanted even to be baptized, but Stefan, they find something on him and he say that I don't want to go.
Q. But I still don't understand why he helped prepare the complaint, when the alleged trustees at the time were Dmytro Popovych and George Zula?
A. Well, he help him. So he not allowed to help? He helping out.
Q. Were you involved in preparing the complaint?
7 Feb 2017 23:22
A. I was present, but I didn't write nothing.
Q. Were you involved in the building of the church?
Q. Did you contribute any money for the building of the church?
A. Not at the time that the church was built.
Q. Would you say there's been conflict in the church over the last year-and-a-half?
A. More, more than last year.
Q. Okay. When did you think the recent conflict began?
A. When -- when they took the deed from John Patrutz. That was very big argument. And, Petar Stefan, he offered me to buy the property, that was probably five years ago.
Q. Mr. Petras.
A. No. No. No. I want to finish.
Q. I need a little clarification. Let's back up a little bit. You said when they got the deed from John Patrutz?
Q. When did that happen?
A. I don't know. Sometime, I don't know. I have to give you the date?
Q. I don't need the date. How about the year?
A. 2011, 2012, I'm not sure exactly.
Q. So when you say they, do you mean Petar Stefan?
A. Petar Stefan and Dorel. But Petar Stefan and John Patrutz and David Nicholson have a three-hour meeting when they -- they make him to give them deed.
Q. So they had John Patrutz turn the deed over to Petar Stefan?
Q. And do you know the reason why?
A. There was always argument to give us the deed. That was -- this was back preparing for selling the church. This was back -- back before -- before John Patrutz leaving us, because a lot of --
Q. Mr. Petras, has Petar Stefan ever told you he's going to sell the church?
A. He told me, yes.
A. He told me many time. He told everybody. And he told me to buy piece of parcel property.
Q. That's actually not what other people testified about. So when exactly --
MR. McCAFFERTY: Hold on a second. Are you going to let him finish his answer before you cut him off?
MS. RUSSELL: Excuse me. I asked him --
MR. McCAFFERTY: Hold on. You asked him a question about when he was asked, when he heard about it. And he was answering that question when you stopped him.
MS. RUSSELL: Because if I let him continue, we are going to go off in another tangent.
A. You didn't have my answer.
MS. RUSSELL: I need clarification.
MR. McCAFFERTY: He wasn't on a tangent.
MS. RUSSELL: Mr. McCafferty, I need clarification.
MR. McCAFFERTY: He wasn't on a tangent. He was answering your question.
MS. RUSSELL: I need clarification as we go along because of the manner in which he is testifying.
MR. McCAFFERTY: You are asking some very open ended questions. But go ahead.
Q. All right. When exactly did Petar Stefan tell you he was going to sell the church?
MR. McCAFFERTY: Are you talking about the first time?
A. The first time I want to say, he told me five years ago whether we was doing the landscaping with my son and my equipment. I pulled probably 200 trees. I didn't donate money when the church was built, but I did landscaping. They know. Petar Stefan, he was with me, just collecting the branches and rock. And with my equipment we done everything. He donated $700 to put the branches, I mean, the shop. And he was helping out. He can say that. I done everything with my machine and my son. And then he say, why you don't buy that parcel property land? Because that building is set up on two parcel. And one parcel, we don't use it. So he asked me and my son. I was looking for the land. He said, why you don't buy this land? I say, look, I don't want to make it in the church argument that I stole it. That somebody going to say you stole property.
Q. Okay. Mr. Petras, are you talking about a vacant parcel of land?
A. That is ten parcel. That is a -- the property is on two parcel. It is a belong to church.
Q. Just so I understand. There's two parcels. Is the church on one parcel and the other parcel is vacant?
A. Empty, vacant.
A. So he asked me many time to buy. And I even say to the -- the church, I say, brothers and sister, he offered me to buy that, I don't want it. I say to the David Nicholson, he was chairman when I said it in the church. I said, look, these people, Stefan they want to sell the church. They open -- and that time on the meeting, Dorel say, sell it. Sell it. Sell the church.
Q. Mr. Petras, were they saying to sell both parcels or just the vacant land to you?
[to be continued...]
8 Feb 2017 8:24
How disgusting to read that mihal and his group of followers would not let Petra and Dorel stefan back into the church. Who do they think they are? What if the stefans ask for forgiveness, what then? sorry mihal but you got what you deserved, you and mike are trouble makers. The sad part is, it looks like the rest of your group just went along with you b/c they couldn't stand stefans and mohan either. Your group is just as bad as you and your son, mike.
8 Feb 2017 8:32
Dave nikolson is a weak elder, from the beginning he should have taken mihal, mike, petar, Dorel, and anyone else that opened their big mouths to cause division in Columbia station, and put them under hard discipline until they repent. But David took sides and helped destroy this church. Now petras' and stefans are under discipline for what they did, a little too late by the way, so NOW the elder body should put David under discipline for what he did.
8 Feb 2017 8:41
It may be that any discipline placed on these people won't correct the wrong that was done. It will take an absolute miracle to make things right again and bring Columbia back to the way it was. That would mean that petras' would never have come to Columbia in the first place. Mihal when are you going to keep your big mouth shut and stop causing problems. I feel sorry for his wife and any kids that want no part in Mihals ways. May the Lord help them.
8 Feb 2017 8:53
The members of Columbia station failed the test the Lord has put before you. You all fell into satans ways by starting to hate one another, arguing. instead of working things out in love, you all went and followed in petras ways or stefans/Daves ways. Instead of listening to the Holy Spirit you chose to listen to man. Never lean on man, they change like the weather. Petras and stefans and mohans were one group against the first group that departed. Then they went against each other and now all three are separated. This was satans plan to separate Gods love in people's hearts, and they fell into it and so did all you members that went along with them. God wins again, He taught us all a lesson from this, lean on the Lord for He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
8 Feb 2017 10:03
You are absolutely correct, Dave Nikolson was the Elder and it is under his watch that the church was destroyed
8 Feb 2017 16:23
What’s disgusting is allowing the abused to feel like they need to accept the abuse they endured by their abusers and accept them like nothing happened. Put yourself in the members’ shoes that were kicked out.
a. The abusers and thieves used the church’s donated money to hire an investigator to investigate its members.
b. The abusers and thieves used the church’s money to hire an attorney to steal the church when they were entrusted to take care of the building; they then claimed that they were the founders and kicked the poor widow who used her house as collateral when the church was being built.
c. The abusers and thieves turned off the water and heat knowing that there was a pregnant woman, children, elderly and widows who were gathering there, this was done in the cold Ohioan winter.
d. I’m sure more evidence of the abuse will follow, just in case the above 3 mentioned is not substantial enough to say that this behaviour is not tolerable.
In business if you have people in your organisation who behave in such a way, you would need to remove them for the safety of your other employees.
8 Feb 2017 16:54
A. No. That time when he offered me for the land only. That time was only talking about the land -- the parcel or land. And after, when we discussion at church, they say, they sell the church. And David Nicholson, he asked Dorel, so you want a divorce?
Q. Slow down a little bit.
A. All right.
Q. Slow down.
A. So David Nicholson --
Q. Hold on. The first conversation you think was 2011?
A. Sometime in 2011, the -- when we was doing landscaping.
Q. Okay. Okay. And that conversation was about selling a vacant parcel of land --
Q. -- that was adjacent to the church?
Q. Okay. The next conversation, when did that happen?
A. Many time. I cannot remember exactly the date or the years. It was many time. He asked me to buy it. I say no. In 2013 I was looking for the land. He offered me again.
Q. Again, are we talking about the vacant parcel?
A. Vacant, yes.
Q. Was there at any point where it changed from the vacant parcel of the land to the actual church building itself?
A. No. That is the parcel I was looking for the land for my business operating.
Q. Okay. So we are only talking -- when you say that Petar Stefan offered to sell you the land, you're only talking about a vacant parcel of land that was adjacent to the church?
A. In that time. In that time.
Q. Was there a time that it changed? We are talking about the whole church --
Q. -- the actual physical building?
Q. When did that happen?
A. When that happen, the year-and-a-half ago. One elder, he have a lot of trouble with the committee. And he was dealing with Dorel Stefan. He writed -- so many, so many letters to the elders.
Q. Which elder?
A. Andy Toth.
Q. Is it Andre Toth?
A. Andre Toth, yes. You know already his name.
Q. Who is Andre Toth?
A. He was the elder who baptized four of my kids in the Columbia Station.
Q. And what was the problem with Andre Toth?
A. Andre Toth, he write the letter. I don't know what his problem. But Dorel Stefan was dealing with him. And one time, Traian Mohan stand up in the church, he was dealing with Stefan all the time, and he say, let's throw out all Apostolic Christian elders from the church and get Andre Toth. And that was at the time and Dorel and Petar Stefan. Then --
Q. Hold on. Why -- why did Traian want to only have Andre Toth?
A. I don't know why they have -- I didn't -- I wasn't in the present when they was talking, what was the reason.
Q. So you weren't there?
A. That was in the church. He say in the church. I was there, but I didn't -- didn't know what they have a conver -- a discussion for Andre Toth.
Q. Okay. Hold on. First you said you were there; then you said you weren't there. Now you are saying --
A. You are confusing me. Mrs. Monica, you are confusing me.
Q. Let's slow down. If we could just slow down. Break up your answers. And then, hopefully, there wouldn't be any confusion. So you're saying, about a year-and-a-half ago something happened at the church where Traian Mohan asked to just have Andre Toth as an elder?
A. They preparing Traian Mohan against the church and throw the Apostolic Christian elder out. And they wanted Andre Toth to come into the church.
Q. And that was a problem?
A. No. That wasn't problem. But when Andre Toth called the meeting. I don't know how many people he called. And I wouldn't know because the Traian, he already say, get the Andre Toth in. So I went to meeting that was in Peter Oldja, he died, Peter Oldja, he die, and but it was in his house on a meeting.
8 Feb 2017 17:17
Q. Okay. You are getting me lost again. Okay. So at a church -- at the church a year-and-a-half ago, Traian Mohan asked that Andre Toth be the elder; is that right?
A. He didn't ask. He tell it in the church.
Q. Okay. That's what he said he wanted; right?
A. Yeah. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Slow down. Who was the elder at that time? Was it David --
A. David Nicholson.
Q. David Nicholson? Okay. So did the other people in the church want to have Andre Toth rather than David Nicholson as the elder?
A. I can't understand the question. David Nicholson didn't ask Andre Toth to be elder in this communication.
Q. Well, you're mentioning this as if it was a source of a problem that Traian Mohan said he wanted Andre Toth. So I'm trying to understand if that was a problem or not?
A. David Nicholson at that time wasn't the problem.
A. But Traian, he say that because that -- Dorel and Petar Stefan, they fighting so many things against the elders. Throw them out. Throw them out. European elders. European way. European -- but this has -- this has nothing to do with European way. This was a planning to take the church over and sell it. As you see, you already send us some offer and things like that, you want to sell the church.
Q. Mr. Petras. Okay. What happened after Traian Mohan said he wanted Andre Toth to be the elder?
A. I say that we call the committee and resolve this problem.
Q. You called the ACCN elder committee?
A. I called David Nicholson.
Q. You called David Nicholson?
Q. He is not on the elder committee; is he?
A. It doesn't matter. He is the elder for Columbia Station. Elder committee doesn't come every time. Only when David Nicholson agreed that he needed help.
Q. Did the other members of the church want to have Andre Toth as the elder?
Q. They wanted to keep David Nicholson?
Q. Okay. Do you know why Traian Mohan wanted to have Andre Toth be the elder?
A. No. But they have Petar Stefan. I didn't get in that discussion.
Q. Okay. Now, I'm still trying to get at the source of your belief that Petar Stefan and Dorel Stefan wanted to sell the actual church building. So before you told me about conversations in 2011 about the vacant parcel. And then was there a more recent discussion where they said they were going to sell the church?
Q. Okay. Can you succinctly explain when that happened and what they said?
A. That was probably a year-and-a-half ago.
A. Okay? So then when that is coming close to when they closed the church, we have a lot of meetings with David Nicholson. And we said, David, do something, because Stefans, they want to sell the church. He say, they say, outside the church, they want to sell the church and we heard it. So then -- Who said that they wanted to sell the actual church building? That's what I don't understand from you.
Q. Did Petar Stefan tell you personally --
Q. -- he wanted to sell the church building?
Q. When did that happen?
A. I cannot tell you exactly the day. I cannot remember exactly when it was happened.
Q. Was it last year?
A. Last year, yes.
Q. Okay. Where were the two of you at when this happened?
A. He was mentioning inside there was more even to my son and Dmytro, he mentioned. Then he say, oh, I just joking. I just joking. But joke doesn't coming from me. I never joke something like that.
Q. So are you saying that this conversation took place at the church?
Q. And it was you there and your son?
A. We was -- when church meeting was, I tell David Nicholson in the presence of all members. David, if Stefan family they want to sell the church.
Q. Was this in February of 2015 at the church -- annual church meeting?
[to be continued...]
8 Feb 2017 23:48
I think you deserve a sticker for passing the test the Lord has put before you.
Matt 18:15- Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Your word: "Your group is just as bad as you and your son, mike." Seems you have something against Mike, have you discussed it with him, or would you like to share it on this forum?
"The members of Columbia station failed the test the Lord has put before you. You all fell into satans ways by starting to hate one another, arguing."
Mihal and his son asked for forgiveness, confronted the abusers, brought them before the church and the elders; they did what the Lord instructed them to do.
9 Feb 2017 23:13
Its great that mihal and his son, mike, asked for forgiveness. Who's forgiveness did they seek? The elders, the stefans? Who? Let's go a step back and think about the first group of members and their families that were abused and persecuted for the love they have for the Lord God. They were called liberals, and who knows what other things they were called. When they asked for help from David, there was none. They all had to resign from Columbia station b/c they were forced out of their lovely church by MIHAL, MIKE, DIMYTRY, MOHAN,STEFANS, DAVID NIKOLSON and all others who were siding with these people. The first group had to suffer much and left broken hearted. So YES, these bad group of people failed their test by God.
9 Feb 2017 23:21
Both, the petras group and stefan/mohan group kept saying that the liberals that left to other churches were the bad people of God and had to leave Columbia station. How beautiful to see Gods hand in all this......the so called 'liberals' all went on to worship in peace, as much as possible, in different churches. But the petras and Dimytry and the stefans/mohan all got their reward....discipline. One day when they repent to ALL the people they've hurt, then they will be free again and living in peace.
9 Feb 2017 23:24
Now it's David's turn to be accountable for his dealing in all this. Don't you think?
10 Feb 2017 0:56
sounds like you know the Petras family so well, you are a relative to the Petras family, yeah?
10 Feb 2017 0:57
sounds like you know so much about Columbia Station, you were a previous member of Columbia Station, yeah?
10 Feb 2017 4:49
If you knew mihal the way we knew him in Australia, and how he was here, you would understand better. He's a trouble maker anywhere he goes. And now the Americans can see for themselves.
10 Feb 2017 8:50
Mihal had left Australia over 16 years ago and since then you've had 2 churches stolen in Australia and a website created against abusers.
10 Feb 2017 8:55
Let me just clarify, this website was created to help the abused in Australia against the abusive behavior of the leaders and the organisation itself. If you read all the comments of those here in Australia you don't see Mihal's name in them,people are victims of abuse and those in power have control to manipulate, lie, cheat and steal- basically do whatever they want and then blame the abused for everything.
10 Feb 2017 12:57
ACCN has clearly manifested its inability of resolving its issues behind the closed doors and peacefully and orderly. That is the reason why issues are being discussed on the Internet and resolved on courts.
10 Feb 2017 15:00
To mike....now is the time to post the letters from elders allowing your dad to take this matter to court. Now is also the time to reveal the taped recording of the elder meeting you were talking about. This would all make more sense in proving that your group is innocent. Thanks
10 Feb 2017 19:50
To the person from Australia who wrote, to: interesting, did you know you sound a lot like George Calombaris the Aussie chef? Yeah? He always says 'yeah' after everything. He's pretty famous, and the things you're writing, you are going to be famous too one day...yeah?
11 Feb 2017 17:26
We want more Petras's deposition; Thanks
11 Feb 2017 17:28
Coming soon. It's been a busy week.
11 Feb 2017 21:48
A. No. We didn't have a church meeting. Dorel created those members minutes, but the church never, never see that. They never, never see it.
Q. Did the church have an annual meeting in 2015?
A. We have a meeting only for the financial status. But those what Dorel created on his computer, he never showed the church and we never had a church, never have that paper.
Q. Did the church have an annual meeting in 2014?
A. I think they have it, but just, as I say, just for -- just for financially.
Q. How about in 2013?
A. I cannot say exactly, if I wasn't there. As I told you, I go around 50 states, I'm not all the time in the presence. And I cannot remember everything. We didn't know something like this happened. We have to go facing the government law. We didn't know that. That never happened like that before.
Q. When is the last time you remember going to an annual meeting at the church before this case was filed?
A. We had a meeting when the -- last year. And David Nicholson was there. And they already have an argument for the -- to remove -- I asked the person, is David Nicholson, to ask the church to remove Petar Stefan and Dorel Stefan from all position, because they want to sell the church. And start to arguing. And Dorel Stefan from back of my back he say, sell the church. Sell the church. And spend money. And spend money. And David, from the front, he asks, so you want a divorce? Yes, divorce. Divorce.
Q. So this happened at the February 2015 meeting, huh?
A. That was -- we have so many meetings. I cannot remember exactly on which meeting was that happened.
Q. So if I call David Nicholson, he will tell me that's true? Because I did talk to him --
Q. -- this week.
A. Yeah, I know.
Q. He didn't mention anything about that.
A. Well, he cannot, because he have to defend himself.
Q. Oh, so you think David Nicholson did something wrong?
A. Yeah, he did.
Q. What did David Nicholson do?
A. Well, because he never, never, never take action, working with the church. He work all the time with Stefan. We have a -- the problem. He just go to the small room and laughing with Petar Stefan over there.
Q. You think David Nicholson was on the side of Petar Stefan?
A. He was all the way on their side. And he say -- when they took the deed. He say, chicapella, don't give it to deeds to nobody until you leave.
Q. I didn't understand what you said there.
A. Like, chicapella means, Petar, don't give the deeds to nobody until you leave. And there was nine -- nine members standing the middle of church and we argue Petar Stefan. Why don't you let the church decide who going to be holding the deed and everything?
Q. What is the importance of somebody holding a physical deed for the church?
A. Well, back on Petar Stefan ask and John Patrutz died was -- he think it was too much to have a piece of paper. But what I said to David, to remove the trustee with the church.
Q. So in February of 2015 you wanted Petar Stefan removed as a trustee of the church?
A. As I told you, we had so many meeting, I cannot remember when which words come on which meeting. At that time we have probably six, seven meetings.
Q. When did you have six or seven meetings, was that in 2015?
A. Was 2015, yes.
Q. Did somebody keep a track record of these meetings?
A. No. Nobody track nothing because we didn't know that something, this happen. Might be Dorel, he even he -- he even tape-record, because many time he tape-recording the discussion with Dmytro Popovych, Dorel Stefan and John Patrutz. And he tape-recording and was in here you learn, Dorel delete everything.
Q. Mr. Petras, my question to you was whether or not there were any written records of these six or seven meetings you're talking about?
Q. What other sources of conflict were there in the church in 2015?
A. Curtain is no good. We have to --
Q. I'm sorry?
A. Curtain. Curtain. Somebody have a curtain --
A. Curtain, yes.
Q. Like on a window?
A. Yes. Yes.
11 Feb 2017 22:23
A. Curtain. A light is no good. Lighting. Exit light. Turn off exit light. The tractor. The -- Zula --
Q. I thought the tractor was an issue in 2011?
A. Yeah, I know. But the tractor was all the time issue. Tractor doesn't work. Somebody order the parts. Stolen money. $100. Stefan stole the money. It was all the time just about nothing. Okay? Why -- Zula's kids cut the grass. The kids, they didn't cut very good. He called David Nicholson to see how -- how they cut the grass. And arguing. Lights. I bought the LD lights for whole church. I spent money from my pocket. He was in sanctuary, counted how many light bulb it needed. Every night is $10.
Q. Did anybody ask you to buy the lights?
A. We discuss it with Petar Stefan to save the money. And he personally counted how many was there. I bought it, probably, 120, 150. Me and my son we changed everything. And two Sunday after, every Sunday argument. Argument. Until him and Traian Mohan, they changed everything and put it in a box and they say, take your lights and take it home. So my --
Q. There was an issue with the lights not being bright enough for the church?
A. Bright enough. He want to save the money. He changed the exit sign. That is against the law. He just turn it off. He want to save the money. That light doesn't even -- even use electricity. But he change it. He say take it home. So my son grab and he donate to some donation company.
Q. Any other issues in the church outside of the lights and the mowing and the tractor?
A. No. No. We didn't have a spiritual argument wasn't that. Only -- only small things. That is nuts.
Q. Was there an argument that was related to the faith of the church?
Q. Was there an argument about what is a sin unto death?
Q. Do you know what I'm talking about?
A. I know -- I know what you are talking about. That is nothing to do with the sin unto death. What they created, Stefan, that has nothing to do with this.
Q. What do you mean, what they created?
A. They created -- they try to say that is issue, sin unto death. But that is not. Sin unto death is not issue here.
Q. Does everybody believe the same way?
A. Everybody believe the same way.
Q. And what do you believe that sin unto death is?
A. Sin unto death, I believe, that if somebody -- somebody make sin. Fornication, that's sin unto death. If somebody make blasphemy, it is sin unto death. That's what I believe. And that is our faith. But in the related to Columbia Station, it never was issue. All this coming from Stefan. They are liberal. They are no good. Everybody is no good. Every -- every single family is no good. We have 80 member and everybody is no good. And he come in to close the door.
Q. Did any of the ACCN elders say that they had a different belief about what a sin unto death is?
A. I don't believe that. We working together. All churches still working together. It is not separation. When I see that something different, the church it have to be separated. And elders, they have to say like the other -- other religion, they separate it. We cannot go anymore together. So the one -- one side, I think, 1,200 members. The other side 7,000 -- 7,000 members and they split. We cannot go through it anymore under these conditions.
Q. Has that happened in the church?
A. In our church doesn't happened yet.
Q. Have any of the ACCN churches separated on the grounds of a spiritual difference?
A. No, I don't think so. It was a group, if they are not agreed something, they leave. But they don't highjack the church. They don't do something like this.
Q. Did Traian Mohan talk to you about this issue of sin unto death on March 15th --
Q. -- 2015?
A. I didn't talk to him about that.
Q. Have you ever talked to him about it?
Q. Did you tell people in the church that you had called the elder committee and asked them to come and punish Dorel and Petar Stefan?
A. I didn't call them to punish. I -- I called them to come and to make a difference.
Q. My question was, did you tell people in the church that you had called the elder committee to come and punish Dorel and Petar Stefan?
11 Feb 2017 22:43
A. I didn't call to -- call them to punish. I called them to come in to make a difference. To help out.
Q. I'm asking not what you exactly called them for, but what you told other people. What did you tell the people in the
church about --
A. Everybody -- everybody was listening. This was in the church. Everybody was listening.
Q. Okay. When everybody was listening, what did you tell him?
A. I told them, I call the committee to come in to help us to sort out the situation.
Q. And that's all you said?
Q. Did you demand that Petar Stefan give you the deed of the church?
A. Can you repeat the question?
Q. Did you tell Petar Stefan he has to give you the deed to the church?
A. No. I tell the Petar Stefan many time, you have to give it to church and church have to decide who going to keep it.
Q. So who in the church did you want him to give the deed to?
A. The church have to voting on that. And when church voting who is appointed that -- that person have to be.
Q. Did you tell people that Dorel put Peter Oldja in the grave?
A. I tell them, spiritually he put him very, very badly.
Q. Who did you --
A. Every Sunday. Every Sunday, if not Petar or -- Stefan, Dorel Stefan. If not Dorel, Katica Stefan. If not Katis Arole
(phonetically). They go after -- they was bullying and bullying and bullying Peter. Peter, many time he cry. Many time he go to David Nicholson in Akron and cry to come in from the small room, crying. Brother David, come and help us, because these people make it very bad for me. And arguing every Sunday after him.
Q. What was he crying about in particular?
A. Well, they always find something is not good or make fun of kids. Your kids is small. They are from small family. They're girls. They making fun. Even the kids. Dorel kids. They making fun. Making fun of them. The last one, Peter Oldja -- we have a singing. And all kids was on the presence. And Peter Oldja call everybody, come into the front, so they can united good. And Dorel, from the back, you call your wife. And she holding the, what, year-and-a-half kids. And --
Q. What do you mean, your call your wife?
A. You call your wife to come into the front.
Q. As in, she should go sit in the front?
A. She had a baby sleeping on her lap.
Q. Okay. I don't understand what the significance is.
A. Well, significance, when we singing, if we are united, the singing is going better. Okay? So Peter Oldja, he take a chance and say, please, come forward. Everybody come forward.
Q. I'm still not understanding.
A. I know.
Q. So you say that Dorel Stefan said something to Peter Oldja's wife, that she should come forward?
A. (Witness nodding affirmatively.)
Q. Help me understand. I don't know what that means.
A. You understand.
Q. I really don't.
A. But you don't want to understand.
Q. I really don't.
A. Peter Oldja, he ask everybody come into the front and be united.
Q. So to sit in front of the church?
A. Not in the front. Not to be that one, two rows empty, and then more people in the back.
Q. So there were some empty rows in the front of the church?
Q. And he asked people to come sit up front?
A. So then Dorel Stefan, he come and then Stefan say to Peter, you call your wife. Why you calling the other people? Your wife sitting in the back.
Q. Oh, okay. So he said, why are you telling other people to go to the front when your own wife is sitting in the back?
A. But his wife holding the kid sleeping on the lap.
A. So Peter Oldja, he got very, very sorry for that, what he done it and --
Q. Did he cry about that, about having his wife sit in the front of the church?
A. After that Sunday I didn't see him, because next Sunday he already died.
Q. Oh. So that's your source of somehow the Stefans killed him?
11 Feb 2017 23:05
A. I say, kill him because when you start to bully somebody -- look at how many kids was bullying and make a suicide because they was bullying. Why these people don't live a peace? You are faithful. You are faithful for yourself. Leave other people alone. Why you make it bullying every Sunday? And to push. I just want to tell you, when they push everybody out, I say to David Nicholson like this: David, everybody is out. Look at it. We are a very small number. What happen next? He say, you are next. He already know that I am next. So they start to go after me, after Dmytro, after -- just pushing everybody out.
Q. Why didn't you just go to another church? Are there other churches --
A. Why I have to go to another church? Why?
Q. Are there other churches you can go to?
A. So, in other words, you want to say, everybody leave it and leave it to Stefan church. So that is what you are --
Q. My question was, are there other churches you could go to in the area?
A. Yeah, but why I have to go?
Q. So there are --
A. If they -- if they --
Q. Mr. Petras, slow down. So your response to that, though, is that you could go somewhere else, but you don't think you should?
A. Why not? I don't want to go. Why?
Q. You think the Stefans should go somewhere else?
A. Yes. If they -- if they think they are better than anybody and they want a European elders, why they not go over there?
Why they make suffering everybody else?
Q. So you think they should go to Europe? Is that what you think?
A. They go to Nazarean church now, they can stay over there.
Q. So why should they leave?
A. So why we should leave? Why everybody should leave? Why 80 members have to leave and they stay? Why? Why the church have to stay only one family?
Q. Mr. Petras, how many members of the church were there in August of 2015?
A. Probably 12 or 14, something like that.
Q. 12 or 14 members. Not 80; right? 12 or 14?
A. No. I don't say there's 80. But when church was built was 80 family, 80 members.
Q. Back in 1989 there were 80 members?
A. No. Not '89. '89 was small number when they start to build.
Q. When was it 80 members?
A. I don't know. I didn't go through the record. But was one time was 80 members. But when I come in there was 50 members in 2001. Around 50 members, around 40 kids. And where they are now? Where they are now?
Q. But there were only 12 or 14 in August of 2015; correct?
Q. Did you tell Elder Dave that Dorel Stefan was the biggest liar?
A. What did you say?
Q. Did you tell Elder David Nicholson that Dorel was the biggest liar?
A. Like I say, I'm not sure.
Q. What do you think he lied about?
A. He lie for so many things.
Q. Such as? What did he say that was not true?
A. I cannot say now what is not true.
Q. Well, just give me one example.
A. I cannot remember.
Q. Do you know why Traian Mohan and Petar Stefan closed the church in August of 2015?
Q. Did you talk to them about it?
Q. Do you think it was a sin for them to close the church?
A. It is sin.
MS. RUSSELL: I'm just going to take a brief break.
11 Feb 2017 23:21
(Short recess had.)
Q. All right. So we are back on after a brief break. In 2011, did you make any effort to have the group of church members that disannounced come back into the church?
A. Not that time.
Q. Were you in favor of them leaving the church?
A. Because David Nicholson have elders behind him, support him. So I -- at that time, they try got rid of him. And I didn't want to go because soon elders leave you, you don't have a elder. So we would think -- I would think, personally, that if -- if I go now against David Nicholson have -- even like today, the elder support him. Whatever he doing, they support him. So at that time -- at that time I didn't -- I didn't favor. And that was my mistake. And apologize all of them. I call personally. I apologize. And I done it wrong.
A. I done it wrong.
Q. Okay. So David Nicholson supported them leaving the church in 2011?
Q. And that's why you supported it, because David Nicholson did?
A. Yes. And --
Q. Have you ever said that the elders are spiritually dead?
Q. You've never said that?
Q. You understand that you are -- you affirmed to tell the truth today --
Q. -- correct? Has everything you've told me so far been the truth?
Q. Is there anything you think you need to restate because it wasn't accurate?
A. No. No.
Q. I'm going to hand you what was previously marked as Exhibit G.
- - - - -
(Thereupon, Defendants' Exhibit G, Letter Dated 8/29/15 From Traian Mohan and Petar Stefan, was previously marked for purposes of identification.)
- - - - -
Q. Mr. Petras, Exhibit G is a copy of a letter dated August 29th, 2015, signed by Traian Mohan and Petar Stefan, dated August 30th of 2015. Have you seen this document before?
Q. All right. When's the first time you saw this document?
A. When -- when Traian Mohan returning back, he scared what he done it, he see was everything wrong. So he call us in a meeting and he showed us that letter. And then when I see the letter, the one time -- but Alan Kraus, he already had it. It was not -- not originally sign it. I went to the Traian Mohan and he give me the letter. And 2000 -- on one letter there was -- which one is? You have two letter, which one is it?
Q. Right now we are just looking at Exhibit G, which is the letter dated August 29th, 2015 signed August 30 --
A. The one -- one -- this is two letters. This is one is exactly letter. I cannot remember that -- that date. But one is -- when we find it, two letter. One was or originally sign it. And one was just copy.
Q. My question to you was, when did you first receive this letter dated August 29th, 2015?
A. When Traian Mohan returned back -- back to Apostolic Christian Church that time.
Q. Okay. When the -- the church was closed August 29th, 2015; is that right?
Q. All right. How did you find out that the church was closed?
A. Dorel Stefan come in with six copy of letter. And dropped it to George Zula on their door. Wife. And say that church is closed.
Q. Okay. When you say that he dropped off the letter, is it the same letter that's Exhibit G here?
A. Because the two letter was two dates. I'm not sure exactly which one was it. I think it was which one was that sign original, it was only copy.
Q. You think it wasn't signed at all?
A. It was signed, but not originally signature. Not originally signature.
Q. I don't think I understand. Let's back up a little bit.
Q. When was that letter delivered to George Zula?
A. When they close the church probably. I'm not sure if it was a couple days after or -- or they close the church and Dorel deliver the letter to George Zula door. And I think his wife was there. And he put six copy or something.
Q. Okay. I can tell you that August 30th was a Sunday. Do you know if this letter was delivered --
A. No, it was not --
Q. -- the following Monday?
A. The following Monday. That wasn't there on Sunday. On Sunday Petar Stefan, he say, tractor was stolen. And when was in the church meeting, tractor was stolen. And he said Misha Petras stole the tractor.
Q. Who is Misha?
[to be continued...]
11 Feb 2017 23:40
Misha, you admit you were wrong to have sided with David Nikolson. And you said sorry. It takes a humbled person to admit and to say sorry. God will bless you for that. The stefans and David are so wrong. I don't know how they can sleep at night knowing that God can come and take their lives at any moment.
13 Feb 2017 12:40
A. And my son, from the back, he say, Misha Petras couldn't do it because we was in New York working whole week, we just driving for two hours to church.
Q. Mr. Petras --
A. No. No. No. I just want to --
Q. Right now I'm just trying to establish the timeline. It has nothing to do with about tractors getting stolen.
A. It is important, because accuse me --
Q. Mr. Petras --
A. -- that I steal the tractor.
Q. Mr. Petras, you might think it's important, but I decide what's important at my deposition. I am deposing you; you answer the questions that I ask.
Q. Do you understand?
Q. All right. So this letter was dated August 29th, 2015. That's a Saturday. August 30th was a Sunday. So was the letter --
A. After --
Q. -- delivered to George Zula's house on Monday, August 31st?
A. After Monday -- after Sunday. I'm not sure exactly which -- it was on nighttime. It was already dark when he bring it. I'm not sure if it was Monday or Tuesday, he just bring it to the door.
Q. So it was within a few days, though, of August 30th, 2015?
A. I cannot say exactly a date. I know you want a specific time, but I cannot remember exactly the date or Monday, Tuesday, whenever. After they close the church, he bring that copy. Church is closed. And it is finished. No more.
Q. Was it the week following August 30th?
A. After -- after Sunday, then they decided to close the church. In the Sunday, Petar Stefan, you didn't let me to finish.
Q. All right. Mr. Petras. Mr. Petras.
A. Yeah, I know.
Q. Right now I'm just trying to narrow in the date upon which the letters were delivered to George --
A. I already told --
Q. -- Zula's home?
A. -- you I don't know exactly the date.
Q. And that's why I'm just saying, was it within the week after that Sunday that the church was closed?
A. What I say to you, after Sunday, when they close the church, after Sunday. I don't know the exactly date.
Q. And I'm not asking you right now when or not it was Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm just saying, in general, was it the week after?
A. Week after. After Sunday.
Q. Okay. All right. I'll hand you what was marked as Exhibit H.
- - - - -
(Thereupon, Defendants' Exhibit H, Letter Dated 9/17/15 From Traian Mohan and Petar Stefan, was previously marked for purposes of identification.)
- - - - -
Q. All right. Mr. Petras, Exhibit H is also a letter dated August 29th, 2015 -- wait for the question -- that appears to have been signed by Traian Mohan and Petar Stefan, but which is dated September 17th, 2015. Now, you would agree with me that the letter that was delivered to George Zula was delivered before September 17th, 2015?
A. This letter was -- this letter was delivery from --
MR. McCAFFERTY: Mike. Mike. Mike. You got to listen.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
MR. McCAFFERTY: You got to listen what she is asking. This isn't your opportunity to tell her everything you know about everything.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
MR. McCAFFERTY: It is her opportunity to ask you certain questions. And you are going to answer just her questions. Okay?
THE WITNESS: Okay.
MR. McCAFFERTY: All right. Thanks.
MS. RUSSELL: Thank you.
MR. McCAFFERTY: Try again.
Q. All right. My question was, this August 29th, 2015 letter, it was delivered to George Zula prior to September 17th, 2015; is that right?
MR. McCAFFERTY: That's Exhibit G.
Q. All right. So do you know why there is Exhibit H, which is the same letter, but signed and dated September 17th, 2015?
Q. Okay. Can you please --
Q. -- explain it?
13 Feb 2017 14:52
A. This letter that Traian Mohan had original signature, which we give it to Alan Kraus. And we discuss with Alan Kraus, why this is not original signature? Mr. Alan Kraus, he ordered Dorel Stefan not to delete nothing from his computer, because might be -- in the court order, that his computer -- laptop have to be exam. Because the signature, it is exactly the same. And who can forge it? Somebody sign on behalf of Traian Mohan.
Q. Why --
A. We discuss with -- with Alan Kraus. And -- and Alan Kraus -- because Alan Kraus is not anymore here. And that wasn't order Dorel Stefan. The signature and everything that examined his -- his laptop.
Q. Are you the one that forged the signature --
Q. -- and dated September 17th --
Q. -- on Exhibit H?
Q. Do you know who did it?
A. No. That's same question asked Alan Kraus, Dorel. We didn't know.
Q. I'm going to hand you what is marked Exhibit I.
- - - - -
(Thereupon, Defendants' Exhibit I, letter From Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean of North America Elder Committee Dated 9/2/15, was previously marked for purposes of identification.)
- - - - -
Q. You can just leave those documents sitting here on the table. So Exhibit I was the letter dated September 2nd, 2015, from the Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean of North America elder committee. Have you seen Exhibit I before?
Q. You've never seen this?
A. I heard it, there was letter. But I didn't have it in my hand.
Q. Do you know Willy Kurtz, Mark Meister and Dushko Dragojlovic, whose names are at the bottom of Exhibit I?
A. I know only those two. Mark Meister, I just talked to on the phone.
Q. So which ones do you know?
A. Dushko Dragojlovic and Willy Kurtz.
Q. And are they members of the ACCN elder committee?
Q. Where are they from?
A. Dushko from California and Willy Kurtz from Canada somewhere.
Q. And you said Mark Meister was from Maryland?
A. Maryland, yes.
Q. Have you spoken with Willy Kurtz?
A. Just when they come in here twoweeks ago, I think.
Q. All right. So --
MR. McCAFFERTY: I'm sorry if I made a noise.
MS. RUSSELL: I thought you were about to say something.
MR. McCAFFERTY: No, I am just stretching my jaws.
Q. Okay. All right. When did you speak to Billy -- I'm sorry, Willy Kurtz?
A. On the Saturday, when they come in two weeks ago.
Q. Let's see, today is October 24th. So they came in on October 10th?
A. I don't know the date exactly. That was around two weeks ago.
Q. All right. And what took place at this meeting?
A. They come in and they say, give it to church back to Stefan. And if not, they start to threatening. And --
Q. I am sorry, they start to what?
A. Threatening. We going to punish you. We going to do this and this and this.
Q. They were threatening --
Q. -- that's what you said? Who was present at this meeting?
A. Zula, myself, my son, Dmytro and Traian Mohan and Willy Kurtz and Dushko.
Q. Who called the meeting?
A. Matei Augustinov organize everything. And we, as members, we never know that going to be meeting and what is it for. We didn't know. We just know that when they come into the drive to the church, David Nicholson drive out. He was meeting with Willy Kurtz previously. So he was with them.
Q. So this meeting was organized by Augustinov, Matei?
Q. And where is -- is he an elder?
A. From California.
Q. He is an elder from California?
13 Feb 2017 16:56
Q. All right. So he organized the meeting?
A. He organized meet us. Tell us, if we want to come in to meeting.
Q. Was the meeting his idea or was it your idea?
A. No, we didn't know nothing.
Q. You didn't know anything?
Q. All right. And it took place where?
A. In Brunswick church.
Q. At the church in Brunswick? Can you tell me where the church is located?
A. On 303 and Marks. Around Marks Road and 303.
Q. And what happened at this meeting?
A. I tell you what happened. They just say, we never know that you put a lawsuit. He say, you put a lawsuit. He point the finger on me, that I put a lawsuit. I say, I didn't put a lawsuit. We put it everybody, but he didn't sign it. And he say, we never know. We never --
Q. I'm sorry. Can you slow down a little bit? You said, you didn't bring the lawsuit? Is that what you said?
A. I didn't sign it for lawsuit.
Q. Okay. And what -- who did you tell him signed the lawsuit? I just didn't understand what you were saying. I want to make sure that it's clear on the record.
A. Only when we put a lawsuit Dmytro by self sign it.
Q. Dmytro Popovych --
Q. -- signed it? Okay. And then what else happened?
A. Well, we was discussing. And they try to say, we never know nothing about this. And we have some member and we say, Mr. Kurtz, that is not correct. You allow us. And now, whatever was reasons for these changes, we don't know. But many time Dorel Stefan say, I am going to sue everybody. I am going to sue the elders. I am going to sue everybody.
Q. Has Dorel Stefan sued anybody?
A. No. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Q. No. Mr. Petras, has Mr. Stefan sued anybody?
A. He didn't.
Q. No, he didn't? Okay.
A. But if he threat to the elders --
Q. If he what?
A. If he make a threat.
Q. You think he made a threat to the elders?
A. I don't know. I don't know.
Q. Do you know if he has ever spoken with any of those elders?
A. He had a conference with them. And they tape it on the tape cassette.
Q. Hold on. Who did Dorel Stefan have a conference with from the elders?
A. Joe Craciun tell me that --
Q. What was that name?
A. Joe Craciun from Florida.
Q. Joe Craciun?
A. From Florida.
Q. Do you know how to spell the last name?
A. He is on the -- on your record. He is a witness for the Stefan.
A. He called me and he told me that Stefan, they have a meeting with the elders committee. And they tape-recording their conversation.
Q. Hold on. Did you talk to Joe Craciun?
Q. And he told you that Dorel told him that he had had a conference?
A. Chicapella Petar Stefan told him.
Q. Okay. Let's do this again. You talked to Joe Craciun and you say that he told you that Petar Stefan told him that he had met with the elder committee?
Q. When did this meeting supposedly --
A. I don't know.
Q. -- take place?
A. I don't know.
Q. And who did Petar Stefan meet with from the elder committee?
A. On the meeting -- when we have a meeting on Saturday, Willy Kurtz, I told them that the Stefan, they taped your conference. And they ask you, if we give you this, what you going to do with the church? And they say, we are going to sell the church.
13 Feb 2017 17:08
Q. How do you know any of this happened? Who --
A. That's --
Q. I have no idea what you are talking about here. When did this -- explain it to me in a little more detail. Who did Petar Stefan talk to --
A. Joe Craciun.
Q. -- from the elder committee?
A. Oh. I think Dushko Dragojlovic.
Q. You think Petar Stefan talked to Dushko Dragojlovic?
Q. Did Dushko Dragojlovic tell you that?
Q. Okay. So I don't know why we went through this whole thing --
Q. -- with Joe Craciun. Dushko Dragojlovic told you that he had talked to Petar Stefan?
Q. Are you sure?
Q. Okay. When did he tell you this?
A. On the Saturday on the meeting.
Q. A couple of weeks ago he told you this?
Q. All right. When did he say he talked to Petar Stefan?
A. He didn't say the date. And I just pointed that, what I heard, that you, as -- if you get that document, you going to sell the church. And I ask them if is that true.
Q. I'm sorry. I don't understand. If who gets what document?
A. Petar Stefan, he ask committee, if we give you the paperwork or deed of the church building, what you going to do with the church?
A. Now you understand?
Q. Thank you.
A. And the elders, they say to him, we going to sell the church.
Q. So the elder committee told --
A. That's --
Q. -- Petar Stefan that they were going to sell the church?
A. That's -- that's what I hear. That's what I want to clarify with the committee. I asked if is the truth. And they say, it is not true. Now, on Dushko Dragojlovic. I say, Dushko, you talk to Petar Stefan? And he say, yes. He call me on this side. I don't know where they was. And he talk to me on Serbian language. But that was all. He didn't -- he didn't continue. And we didn't -- didn't discuss anymore further. But they was somewhere with them. And he say, he call me on the side and he talk to me on the Serbian language.
Q. What do you mean he called him on the side?
A. On the side. There was group. And he called him on the side of the group and -- and he talked to him.
Q. Oh, he met him in person?
A. That's what he say. That's what he say.
A. So I'm not sure. I just -- what I -- what I heard from him. And what I heard from Craciun. I want to clarify, if is that true, if the committee want to sell the church. They say, no, we never say that.
Q. Okay. So what else happened at this October meeting that took place a couple of weeks ago?
A. Nothing. We say, we don't -- we don't want to give up the church. We want our church back. And that's it.
Q. All right. But Willy Kurtz and Dushko Dragojlovic asked you to dismiss the case?
Q. And why did they want you to dismiss the case?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did they say why --
Q. -- they wanted you to?
A. No. They didn't say nothing.
Q. So they didn't give any reason at all?
Q. They just said, drop the case?
A. Said drop the case. And that what we say, we don't want to drop the case, because it's not right to two persons, they already have the offer, which you present that to the -- the Alan Kraus, and we got it. You want to sell the church. And they want to sell the church. And we don't accept that. Church is not for sale. And they cannot sell it.
[to be continued...]
16 Feb 2017 0:13
Steffans: who are you to make fun of little children?
"But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come to me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 19:14
You poor brethren of Columbia Station, I feel sorry all of you and my heart goes out to Peter Oldja.
18 Feb 2017 16:13
Meanwhile we have received a message from Mike Petras:
I ask the Lord and you if you can please post my attached letters at the end of Mihal's deposition page, regarding my emailed church resignation and Stefan's bullying incident.
Date: 20 Oct 2010
Date: 24 Nov 2010
Date: 4 Jan 2011
Date: 23 May 2015
18 Feb 2017 16:23
...there's still a bit more left of Mihal's deposition, and we'll post that within the next few days. Thanks.
20 Feb 2017 15:46
Q. When you said, you want to sell the church and they want to sell the church, who are you talking about?
A. I talking about, Monica, you presented the paper on behalf of --
Q. The settlement offer?
MR. McCAFFERTY: That's what he is talking about.
Q. Okay. You didn't ask the elder committee why they wanted you to drop the case?
Q. Isn't that a normal thing you would ask? They are telling you now to drop it. Wouldn't you say, why do you want us to drop it now when you told us to file it before? I mean --
A. We told them, you told us to go to court, get the church back. And we are going to do exactly what we started. Now, we cannot drop it and we don't want to drop it.
Q. Did they tell you they were disassociate the church from the ACCN?
A. They didn't tell me that. They didn't tell.
Q. They didn't say that?
A. No. Whatever they -- they was threatening. They was threatening. If they say something to what I didn't catch, I'm not sure.
Q. So they might have said it, but you didn't hear it?
A. Might be they say something what I didn't catch, because there was -- there was seven people.
Q. All right. This letter that we were looking at originally, Exhibit I. Exhibit I is that letter dated September 2nd, 2015, from the elder committee. And it indicates in here that the elder body as a whole will not condone the locking down of the church in the manner as was described in a letter from the trustees. What kind of authority does the ACCN elder committee have over whether or not the church is opened or closed?
A. They have a spiritual rule, what we have in the church. I think that doesn't apply to the Ohio law. In Ohio law, what I can't see, we cannot go together with a -- with a Bible. That's why we have different. Okay? We have -- the elders have a big authority. We have the elders, if we cannot do the vote in the church, and they have a big authority. Internal authority, they have. That, maybe, I cannot even explain to you. Maybe is not necessary to explain to you, because you are not in the church. You maybe even don't understand. You know church -- you know the law of the land. And you just follow that. And we follow different law. Okay? So that's why is the difference. You follow the land -- land law, Ohio law. What they can do, what they cannot do. I know that. But as a -- as a church, regulation. And the churches all around the world, we have a separate -- to vote in the church matter.
Q. So does the ACCN elder committee, then, have some kind of say over whether or not he church should be opened or closed?
A. They have a -- have a say, but they -- they can say whatever they want it if they have some kind of a pressure. But this is not usually -- what they done it on Saturday, they done a very, very, very bad thing.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. On Saturday, when they -- when we meet with them, they done a bad thing.
Q. When you met with the elder committee?
Q. So this was a couple of weeks ago?
Q. The elder committee did bad things?
A. They did bad things. Because now we -- we put their name and go the court and mention it in the court. That is not necessary. The elders to be mix up in such a thing and it shameful Apostolic Christian Church.
Q. What bad things did the elder committee do?
A. They done things because they -- they first they say, you go to the court and get the church back. And now they coming back on the end, give to Stefan church.
Q. If they had told you in the beginning not to file the lawsuit, would you have filed -- would the church members have still filed the complaint in this case?
Q. So why did they want to pursue it now that the elder committee is saying to drop it?
A. I don't know. I don't know that. Whatever reason they have, we don't know. They didn't tell us a reason.
Q. Mr. Petras, I think you misunderstood my question. I understand from what you said before that if the elder committee had told the church members not to file the complaint in the beginning, they would not have; is that right?
20 Feb 2017 16:05
Q. I'm sorry. No, it's not right or that's correct, they would not have filed the complaint if the elder committee didn't want them to?
A. Can you repeat one more time? I don't --
Q. Sure. I just want to make sure we are clear. If the elder committee had told the church members not to file the complaint to begin with, would they have still filed the complaint?
A. I think that time we wouldn't -- we wouldn't file.
Q. You would not have filed?
Q. So let me ask you this, then. I'm trying to understand what has changed. Now the elder committee is telling you to drop the case. Why won't the church members drop the case?
A. I don't know why they ask us to drop. This time we don't want to drop.
A. Because it is not right, two people to sell the church, what they didn't build. They didn't pay. They didn't pay for the church.
Q. They haven't sold the church, Mr. Petras. You understand that; right?
A. But they want to sell the church.
Q. But nobody has sold the church?
A. Not yet.
A. Not yet.
Q. Prior to this meeting a couple of weeks ago with Willy Kurtz and Dushko Dragojlovic, when was the time before that that you spoke with Willy Kurtz, Mark Meister or Dushko Dragojlovic?
A. I have a conference. I'm not exactly sure when. I have a conference with them. They call me. They want to see how things going. I'm not sure of the date. I don't know.
Q. Can you just tell me, approximately, was it in August or May of this year?
A. This year it was, sometime, August, September, I'm not sure. Then, plus, I have the conference with Dushko Dragojlovic, same thing.
Q. When was that?
A. That was two months ago.
Q. Okay. Let's talk about both of those other conferences. Were they on the phone?
Q. All right. Was the conference with Dushko Dragojlovic first?
A. No, all three.
Q. Okay. And you think that was, maybe, in August or September?
A. I cannot really discuss exactly date.
Q. Was it summer, perhaps?
A. Summer, yes.
Q. Okay. I'm not trying to get you down to a date, but just, in general, trying to get a time frame. So sometime this summer you talked to three of the elders?
Q. Was it the three listed here, Willy Kurtz, Mark Meister --
Q. -- and Dushko Dragojlovic?
Q. And what did they tell you during that conference?
A. They told us, Mike, we going to help you.
Q. When you say, Mike, is that you or --
Q. -- your son?
Q. You both go by Mike?
A. Mihal. Mike. Misha. Whatever. They told us -- we was three on the phone. My son and my son-in-law and they told us to get that church back. If need it, money, we going to help you with the money, with everything. We going to help you everything.
Q. Have they given any money to any --
A. Not yet.
Q. -- of you for you to pay Alan Kraus?
A. I don't ask nobody.
Q. All right.
A. I done it everything from my own. I want to help to restore was is done wrong. Again, the law, they shouldn't done
this. And I put myself money. I want to get the church back.
Q. Okay. What else happened during this telephone conference, the first one you had this summer?
A. We have a -- we have a discussion and they ask whatever happening. Whatever we -- we didn't tell them, we told them how they done it wrong. The water, the gas, heating, how much suffering they make us to do accusation every time. You don't clean the toilet. You wrote so many -- the motion, that we don't clean it. For two hours, what we can do? We don't have a proper service. And we have to clean the -- the letter come and we agree to clean the snow. We don't have access to clean the snow. Nobody agreed with that, what letter coming out. So we told the elders everything what was doing. And they say, that is completely wrong. Get the church back. Okay?
20 Feb 2017 16:39
Q. And then the next conversation you had --
A. The next conversation with Dushko Dragojlovic. He say, when you get the church back, we going allow you to choose the elders, which one you wanted. We going to help every members who left to coming back to the church. Who want it, willingly, to coming back. You accept it. We accept them to coming back.
Q. That was in September of 2016?
A. Something like that. Might be September. Might be August. I'm not sure the exactly the month. I cannot tell you. If I'm, you know, might be I have something with my son or something, I don't.
Q. But then just a couple of weeks ago they completely changed their story?
Q. And now they told you to drop it?
A. That's why we don't listen now.
Q. And they haven't explained to you why they have changed their mind?
Q. All right. This letter that's Exhibit I, this September 2nd, 2015, letter, indicates that the elder committee is in the process of securing the weekend of September 12th to have a group of elders come to Columbia Station and meet with the membership and look to resolve the matters that are of concern. Whose idea was it to have a September 12th, 2015 meeting?
A. That's coming from elders committee.
A. And they order David Nicholson to organize the meeting and they order him to be chairman. And that's everything coming from -- they organize everything.
Q. Does the elder committee have the authority to schedule a church meeting like that?
A. If you look that law, what you doing now, probably they not. Because we don't have a regulation, we don't have that -- things like that had up. But in the church order and internal, they can do it.
Q. Did this letter tell anybody the location or the time of the meeting?
A. I don't know. I -- I didn't organize the meeting. You should ask David Nicholson. He organize the meeting.
Q. Were you present at the meeting on September 12th?
Q. Do you know if Petar Stefan or Dorel Stefan ever received a written notice that stated the date, the time and the location of the meeting?
A. I don't know that. I don't know if David Nicholson sent it to them or not. He should have done his word, what he was order from the elders. And he just --
Q. So the answer is, you don't know?
Q. Okay. I will hand you what's marked as Exhibit K.
- - - - -
(Thereupon, Defendants' Exhibit K, Letter From Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean, Elder Committee, Dated 9/9/15, was previously marked for purposes of identification.)
- - - - -
Q. Mr. Petras, Exhibit K is the September 9th, 2015 letter from the Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean elder committee. Have you ever seen this letter before?
Q. You have? When did you see this letter first?
A. I think that come in -- that's come into the church. And David Nicholson bring that. I think so.
Q. You think David Nicholson brought a copy of the letter?
A. I'm not sure how this -- how this come in. I'm not sure.
Q. All right. And this September 9th, 2015, letter stated that, it is with deepest regret we must inform you that the three of you are no longer to be considered free brothers within the fellowship of the Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean. And the letter appeared to be addressed to Brother Traian Mohan, Dorel Stefan and Petar Stefan. Do you see where that is on the letter?
A. Can you repeat the question?
Q. I'm looking at the letter in Exhibit --
A. Yeah, I know that.
Q. Can you read English?
A. I don't have my glasses.
Q. Okay. Do you have them here with you?
Q. I was reading from Exhibit K. That it is stated in this letter that the elder committee was telling Traian Mohan, Dorel Stefan and Brother Petar Stefan that they were no longer to be considered free brothers within the fellowship of the Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean. My question to you is, does the ACCN elder committee have the authority to tell a church member that they are no longer a free brother within the fellowship of the ACCN?
A. They have. But, as I say, it is not according to law in Ohio, but internal, they have the right to do.
Q. I'm not asking you --
A. I know.
Q. -- to tell me what Ohio --
A. I know.
Q. Stop interrupting me, please. I'm not asking you to tell me what Ohio law is. I'm just asking you, based on your knowledge of how your church operates, whether or not the ACCN can remove somebody as a member of the church?
20 Feb 2017 17:14
A. They can do it, internal, as I was saying.
Q. They can do what?
A. Internally. According to inside, in regulation in the Apostolic Christian Church.
Q. All right. If the ACCN elder committee tells the church that certain individuals are no longer free brothers within the fellowship of the ACCN, is the church allowed to let those members back into the church?
A. They can be back if they are not excommunicated to sent home.
Q. What does excommunicated mean to you? Is it different --
A. Mean, as I say, this is the discussion what is not applied to you.
MR. McCAFFERTY: Mike. Mike. Try to answer her question as you understand it, whether it's religiously or otherwise. Okay? Ask him again. She wants to know what excommunicated means.
A. Excommunicated means if somebody make it blasphemy, then it is excommunicated. They cannot come into church anymore.
Q. Is that different than the ACCN elder committee telling somebody they are no longer a free brother?
A. Yes, it is. Free brother mean they don't have a -- they -- they cannot be something, like, trustee. They cannot be free to be any position or cannot be on the baptism or things like that. The spiritual way, they are not free member.
Q. Okay. But they are still allowed to attend church services?
Q. All right. And it states in the September 9th letter that they have forfeited their elected position in the Columbia Station church, such as, trustee, treasurer, et cetera. So my question to you, then, does the ACCN elder committee have the ability to remove somebody as a trustee or a treasurer of the church?
A. At moment I don't understand how they operating internal because we didn't have a situation. We didn't have something that elders done it. We know that elders working with the church, David Nicholson. And this situation, how they operating, they can do -- they can do this thing.
Q. I'm still a little bit confused about the authority of the ACCN elder committee. Because on the one hand you told me that if they had told you not to file the complaint, the church wouldn't have. But now they are telling the church to drop the complaint, but the church isn't going to drop the complaint?
Q. And you are also saying that they have the ability to tell somebody that they can't be a treasurer or trustee. So it doesn't quite make sense to me, how you can tell the ACCN elder committee you won't drop the complaint, but you accept their authority on other matters?
A. They didn't remove them. We remove them on 12th, September.
Q. Why was that necessary to remove them on September 12th if the ACCN elder committee already said that they had forfeited their elected positions?
A. That was -- whatever they done it, I don't want to go there, because I don't know what the -- what the letter was send it and why. We just know, they call us for the meeting on September 12th and that was called David Nicholson on lunchtime called Petar Stefan to come in on the meeting.
Q. So --
A. On lunchtime on the phone he called them to come in on the meeting.
Q. So did you think it was necessary for the church members to have a meeting to vote to replace Dorel Stefan -- I'm sorry, Dorel Stefan, as treasurer, and Petar Stefan and Traian Mohan as trustee?
Q. All right. Traian Mohan, Petar Stefan and Dorel Stefan were not present at the September 12th, 2015 meeting; is that right?
Q. Were there prayers said at the meeting?
A. No. How do you say?
Q. Was there a prayer said at the meeting?
A. I don't know what means prior. Because they was called on lunchtime on September 12th to come in on the meeting.
Q. At the meeting on September 12th, how was the meeting opened? How did the meeting get started?
A. David Nicholson started with -- we started with the pray.
Q. Okay. So you started with a -- with praying?
Q. Was there a reference made to scripture?
Q. And what happened at the meeting? What was the process?
A. Process was voting, 100 percent. David Nicholson, he presented that it is necessary to remove Stefan and Traian Mohan and Dorel from the position, because they going to sell the church and they have to be removed. And we was working 100 percent. 12 members, I think was. And we was 100 percent voting them, everything remove them from all position.
Q. How did the vote take place?
A. By standing.
Q. Who was present at the meeting other than certain church members?
A. The Elder Paul Kusicki, Matei Augustinov and David Nicholson.
Q. Are any of those individuals on the elder committee?
Q. I will hand you what's marked as Exhibit M.
- - - - -
(Thereupon, Defendants' Exhibit M, Meeting Minutes, 9/12/15, was previously marked for purposes of identification.)
- - - - -
22 Feb 2017 17:00
Q. Exhibit M are the meeting minutes for the September 12th, 2015 meeting. Have you seen Exhibit M before?
Q. Okay. When was the first time you saw Exhibit M?
A. October 3. October 3. And that was in between -- in between 5 and 7:00.
Q. So between 5 and 7:00 p.m. on October 3rd of 2015?
Q. How did you receive your copy of meeting minutes?
A. It was five -- Traian Mohan, when he start to shaking and -- and be sorry what he done it. He call a meeting. So we meet on 82 and Ridge Road. We went to McDonald. He called us in meeting between five -- Dmytro, my son, and myself, Traian and Zula. We in that meeting together in McDonald. And this -- this document, we've been asking from David so many, so many time. One time he say, oh, I sent it to the committee. I call Mark Meister. Where is the document? He say, I don't know. David, he say, that he send it to the lawyer. He don't know who is the lawyer. So then I call the next time, David, he say, oh, lawyer have it. I don't have it. But on October 3, Zula call David, give me -- give us the paper. So from the meeting, we was sitting five on a -- on a table and David, one by one, take the picture and send it -- this is not -- not funny. He send it by the -- by the phone. He take the picture and send it copy by copy. And third copy where he sign it, didn't come and we have to wait. George have to, two times probably to call him, where is the third copy? Then he send it.
Q. Why did he wait so long to send the meeting minutes?
A. That is -- that is the question for us everybody. Okay? And he say, here is the copy, but tell Misha, I don't go to court. Tell Misha go to court. So David Nicholson, right now, when he send to us, he know we have to go to court.
Q. Why was he --
A. So why he was holding the letter?
Q. Why was he directing his comments to you?
A. Because I was on him all the time for all situation. I talk most in the church. When we have a church meeting, I was pointed -- this Stefan, they want to sell the church. And, David, do something. So that's why.
Q. Were you pushing them to file the complaint?
A. No. He didn't file the complaint.
Q. No. No. No. Were you pushing the other church members to file a complaint?
A. No. No. Everybody -- everybody was for that.
Q. But you already told me before there wasn't a rule vote for filing the complaint?
A. There was a verbal vote, by verbal vote, everybody was agreed.
Q. I'm sorry what?
A. Verbal vote. Verbal.
Q. Is that what you said? There was a verbal vote?
A. Yeah, verbal vote. But we was talking everybody together.
Q. Okay. But did this take place at a meeting?
Q. Okay. So you obtained a copy of the meeting minutes that are Exhibit M when you were at a McDonald's with several other individuals and David Nicholson sent it by text message to George Zula?
Q. And George Zula forwarded it to you?
A. He was sitting around the same table.
Q. So he showed you on his phone?
A. No, he showed it on the phone and then he forward and we have everybody. He forward to everybody. Whoever had computer.
Q. All right. Take a look at Exhibit M. It states in part that the members have determined it is in the best interest of the church to remove the signing authority of certain members of the church. How did the church members decide what was in the best interest of the church?
A. Because church was already closed. So why they interest to keep the church closed?
Q. Was there a reference made to scripture when you were talking about --
A. We want the church back. Everybody say that.
Q. You've got to let me finish my question. Okay? Was there a reference made to scripture when they were discussing what was the best interest of the church at the September 12th meeting?
A. Yes. There was in the church.
Q. All right. What was the scripture reference that was made?
Q. Yes. Did somebody mention scripture or the New Testament when they were talking about the closing of the church?
24 Feb 2017 10:08
A. No. Just I cannot remember what everybody said. That would have to be very, very smart to keep it all words, but who is saying what. But it was discussion, especially remove and reinstall the new trustee and new agents and everything.
Q. Were Petar Stefan and Traian Mohan removed as trustees because they sinned?
Q. Was Dorel Stefan removed as a treasurer because he sinned?
A. Because they closed the church. Because.
Q. What role did the elders take in this meeting?
A. No. They just -- they just leading the job and like a business. They didn't vote. They didn't vote.
Q. Who created the meeting minutes that are Exhibit M?
A. I don't know that.
Q. On paragraph nine of Exhibit M, it states that Petar Stefan, Traian Mohan and Dorel Stefan are to jointly or severally cause the return of the title deed of real property owned by the church to the elder committee. Whose idea was it to put that part in the meeting minutes?
A. I didn't put it in the meeting minutes.
Q. Was that voted on at the meeting?
A. We was voting in the church in the present. David Nicholson was in the present. It was majority voted and by the standing majority saw -- that voted that take the all deed from the Stefan and give it to the committee. The -- like all churches, all original paperwork, everything is holded by committee. Not committee, the -- what is it? Apostolic Christian Church Foundation. It's called foundation.
Q. The ACCF?
A. So my suggestion was, put the deed to foundation so nobody can claim ownership. Because the fighting was with Petar Stefan and the fighting was now with Peter -- John Patrutz now with Petar Stefan.
Q. Okay. Slow down a little bit. I'm having a hard time understanding you there. So it was your idea to have the deed given over to the elder committee?
A. Yes. The elder committee foundation.
A. That is all churches' paperwork staying in foundation.
Q. So you think that the -- I'm going to call it the ACCF.
A. All right.
Q. Is that okay?
Q. So the ACCF hold the title deeds for all the Apostolic Christian Church Nazarean churches?
A. I don't know if they -- if they hold the deeds. But I know that they -- they what I can see the churches, when they build it, if they supply the money, they put it deed in and then they pay, I'm not sure, membership and things like that to --
Q. Okay. Are you thinking of mortgage? Are you talking about a mortgage, where the ACCF gives money to a church and then they pay it back?
A. Well, the many times doesn't give it the mortgage. Many times they put it the money, but then you have to turn the paperwork to the committee. So, I mean, to the foundation. I don't know how they work.
Q. I am not sure you know what you are talking about here exactly.
Q. I feel like maybe you are confusing a mortgage, which is a situation where somebody gives a loan to help improve a property --
Q. -- and then the party --
Q. -- who owns the property --
A. No. No. When the church need -- need help for the money.
A. In Australia, Europe, anywhere in the world, they asking to help. We send in the letter and asking to help. And if committee put in money, foundation, put in money, they don't want to put in the money, $100,000, somebody just like that.
Q. Okay. Did the ACCF ever give the church money?
A. You mean to be paid for that then? What?
Q. The church on Royalton Road, does it owe the ACCF money?
A. No, they pay that -- in '97, they pay everything out.
Q. Okay. So the church on Royalton Road does not owe the ACCF any money; correct?
Q. So why would you give them the deed to the church?
A. So that argument stop it. Argument. We have a problem argument that nobody can sell the church.
Q. So you think --
Q. -- if somebody else has the original deed that will prevent somebody else from selling it?
A. If the organization keep the deed nobody -- I cannot go over there, I done the landscaping, I done myself $100,000 worth of work or whatever, now I can go over there, this is mine. Once you put the charity, it is gone. It is not mine. I cannot have money back.
A. True or not?
Q. And if the church is still in the name of the church. So I don't understand why you think giving the deed to the elder committee is going to change anything.
A. So what -- what is the reason not to give it? Why we have to -- every time somebody keep a deed, we have to argue about that? Why?
Q. I'm not answering questions for you.
A. Well --
Q. It's your deposition, sir.
24 Feb 2017 10:24
A. I know. But my question is -- my answer is for that. If -- if argument in the church, so that mean I ask that -- so it would stop argument.
Q. Okay. So you think that it would stop arguments?
A. Yes, stop arguments.
Q. All right. After the September 12th meeting in 2015 took place, how was Petar Stefan notified about what happened at the meeting?
A. Traian Mohan, he told us of when we was with Alan Kraus. Petar Stefan, right after meeting, 2012, when we finish meeting, Petar Stefan call Traian and told him, say, we are removed.
Q. How would he know about it?
A. You have to ask Petar Stefan.
Q. I am asking you.
A. Well --
Q. Do you know?
A. -- how I -- I didn't talk to him.
Q. All right. Do you know of anybody at the September 12th, 2015 meeting who contacted Traian Mohan, Petar Stefan or Dorel --
A. I don't know that.
Q. Let me finish. -- to tell them the results of meeting?
A. I don't know that. That supposed to be duty to somebody call them, but if David Nicholson didn't do it, his duty, I don't know.
Q. So David Nicholson should have called them?
A. I didn't -- I was the only member. I didn't --
Q. Whose job was it to call them to tell them what happened at the September 12th, 2015 meeting?
A. It is not mine.
Q. Okay. It wasn't yours. Whose was it? Whose job was it?
A. Who was the chairman? David Nicholson.
Q. All right. But you don't know if he ever did tell them?
A. I didn't know.
Q. Did anyone provide a copy of the meeting minutes to Petar Stefan or Dorel Stefan?
A. I don't know that.
Q. All right. I'm going to hand you what was previously marked as Exhibit L.
- - - - -
(Thereupon, Defendants' Exhibit L, Letter to Judge Miraldi From Dmytro Popovych and Mihal Petras Dated 9/6/16, was previously marked for purposes of identification.)
- - - - -
Q. This is a letter dated September 6th, 2016, that appears to be from both you and Dmytro Popovych to Judge Miraldi. Do you recognize Exhibit L?
Q. Did you sign Exhibit L on the last page?
Q. And Exhibit L, on the second page, indicates that David Nicholson knowingly withheld the minutes meeting documents from the meeting date on September 12th, 2015, until October 3rd, 2015. With Mr. David Nicholson withholding these minutes meeting documents for that three-week period, the church could not legally remove Mr. Petar Stefan and Mr. Traian Mohan from church trustees nor Mr. Dorel Stefan as church agent. Do you remember signing off on a letter that had that language in it?
Q. Okay. So is that true, that the church couldn't remove them as trustees and --
A. We remove them. We remove them, but they couldn't register at the -- Dorel -- remove the Dorel Stefan from -- I think, that it that was wrong -- wrong for that, because --
Q. You think it was wrong what?
A. Wrong that -- we remove Dorel Stefan in State of Ohio from the agency, and we register at new agent because the trustees doesn't have to be registered in the State of Ohio.
Q. That's not what this letter says; is it?
A. Well, that was mistake.
Q. So you signed this letter and it has mistakes in it?
A. Well, we sign it, but the thing is he -- he hold the letter, we couldn't go to the Ohio to remove the Dorel Stefan from agency and new agent to register.
Q. Who wrote this letter?
A. Me and my son.
Q. So you're the one that wrote the language --
Q. -- that you say now is wrong?
A. No, it is not -- I didn't say that it is wrong. We -- we voted the Stefan from the all position. We voted 100 percent. We voted them out. They are removed from the position. But that was only -- only the agent have to be registered in the State of Ohio.
Q. And you think you needed the meeting minutes to change the statutory agent?
A. How you say?
Q. Were you thinking that you needed the meeting minutes to change the statutory agent?
A. For the agent -- agent registered in the State of Ohio. No?
Q. But your letter states that because Mr. Nicholson withheld those meeting minutes for three weeks, the church could not legally remove Mr. Petar Stefan and Mr. Traian Mohan from church trustees. I mean, that's what you wrote.
A. Well, okay. If he didn't notify them, who is the fault?
Q. I'm not answering questions for you. It is your deposition.
A. Yeah, I know.
24 Feb 2017 13:56
Q. So I'm trying to understand why you wrote this if now you are saying it wasn't accurate.
A. It was accurate.
A. It was accurate.
Q. Okay. So it was accurate. Did you hold a meeting on September 11th of 2015?
MR. McCAFFERTY: 2016 or '15?
MS. RUSSELL: 2016. I did this last time; didn't I? I wrote it down wrong in my questions.
MR. McCAFFERTY: That's all right.
Q. Did you hold a meeting on September 11th, 2016?
Q. And what was the purpose of that meeting?
A. George Zula, he said that it's too much pressure on him. He want to resign.
Q. Why did he want to resign?
A. It is too much pressure for him and he want to resign.
Q. What was too much pressure?
A. You have to ask him. I think you already ask him at his deposition.
Q. Well, I'm asking you.
A. I don't know.
Q. Did he explain in any kind of detail why he wanted to resign?
A. No. He said his pressure. That's what he said. What he is saying.
Q. Was somebody telling him he should resign?
Q. What happened at this meeting?
A. He asking -- he ask to make him free from the trustee. And he was somebody else and they appointed me, so.
Q. Did you volunteer?
A. They ask me. I agreed. And they voted.
Q. How did the vote take place?
Q. Was there a written notice given of this meeting prior to the meeting taking place?
A. The one before we notify to the church.
Q. How did you notify the church?
A. Just to tell them all the members meeting after service was done, we say, we going to have a meeting.
Q. So after church services there was just a verbal statement that there is going to be a church meeting?
A. Well, we never process by letter.
Q. Prior to September 12th of 2015, had a church trustee ever been removed by the members through a vote, other than the trustee stepping down because their term expired or they resigned or they died?
A. Well, they was voting if somebody come in the term, five -- five years. He stand up and he say, okay, I want to revoting or the church have to point to somebody else. It's always working as it is -- was voting when we done it now for George Zula. He resigned and we always voting. We voting for everything.
Q. That's not quite my question. So I'm not talking about instances where the trustee had a term that expired or they voluntary step down or they died. Other than those instances, has there ever been a time where the church had to vote to remove somebody as a trustee?
A. I don't remember, because I'm not, from 1989, in the church. I don't know.
Q. But since you have been at the church, has that ever happened?
A. I wasn't every -- every meeting. I wasn't on every meeting. I am -- as I say, I am traveling. I am not -- almost never home.
Q. You -- well, I'm asking you, though, do you know of it ever happening?
A. I -- I don't know.
Q. Has a trustee ever been elected to be a trustee of the church with less than a unanimous vote of the members?
A. No. It have to -- it have to be majority.
Q. Well, you understand there is a difference between a majority and unanimous vote? A unanimous is everybody agrees --
Q. -- a majority is just more than half.
Q. Do you understand?
Q. Has a trustee ever received less than a unanimous vote to become a trustee?
A. We vote on majority. And I don't know if 100 per cent. I don't think anybody having 100 per cent.
Q. Okay. Let me try this one more time. I understand you're telling me that the church works by a majority. But in your experience with the church, has a trustee ever been elected and received less than everybody's vote?
A. I don't know.
Q. All right. I'm just going to take a brief break.
24 Feb 2017 14:09
(Short recess had.)
Q. Okay. We are just about done here. You had mentioned before when we were talking about sin unto death, that blasphemy would be a sin unto death; is that right?
A. Sin unto death even -- even if you make it with a woman. Fornication.
A. That's sin unto death.
Q. Right. But I was talking -- you did say blasphemy; right?
Q. What is your definition of blasphemy, what does that mean?
A. That means if you say something against Holy Spirit.
Q. Does it mean anything else?
Q. When is the last time you spoke to David Nicholson?
A. I already told you, probably one year ago.
Q. A year ago. Is there an elder for the church right now?
Q. I thought you mentioned to me before that somebody had told you that they could get you an elder. I might be wrong.
A. Dushko -- Dushko Dragojlovic, they say, when church is open, we going to give you the elder, which one you are comfortable. And we are going to come in and help you establisheverything. And -- and they going to help us everything.
Q. And did he tell you that in the September telephone conference you had with him?
Q. But currently you don't have an elder; correct?
A. Well, at moment, Matei Augustinov, he -- he tried to be our elder, but I'm not sure we agree to it.
Q. How many people attended church yesterday?
Q. Who went to church yesterday?
A. Traian, his wife. Me and my wife. Dmytro and wife and two sisters, old, and my son.
Q. Who were the two sisters? Who are they sisters of, I should say?
A. One who sign at -- Patrutz wife. Who sign her house for loan for the church when the church was built.
Q. That's John Patrutz's wife?
A. John Patrutz wife. And Veronica, I'm not sure, I don't know the second name. Veronica. Veronica something.
Q. The Sunday before this past Sunday, how many people came to church?
A. Past Sunday, same people.
Q. Has it only been about nine people at Sunday services for the last few months?
Q. Okay. Were there more people at one point?
A. George -- George Zula and his wife and Vlasa, so that's another three. Vlasa Oldja?
Q. And before you said Veronica, was that Veronica Patrutz? That's John Patrutz's wife; right?
Q. Oh, I see. That's Viorica. Okay. So you used to have -- George Zula and his wife used to attend?
Q. And when did they stop attending?
A. Two weeks ago.
Q. And who else used to attend?
Q. Vlasa Oldja?
A. Vlasa Oldja.
Q. And when did she stop attending church?
A. One weeks. The last time she -- I'm not sure, it was the last -- the Sunday before she come in to disannounce.
Q. She disannounced?
A. Because they -- they told you, you must disannounce and you come into Akron, you must announce it in Akron. That never happened before, but now they told her she have to disannounce. So she was crying, but she going.
Q. How about Sister Minutsa?
A. Minutsa, she been -- when meeting was on, she was in Europe. She wasn't in presence.
Q. Does she still come --
Q. -- to the services?
Q. When is the last time she came to a church service?
A. When they close the church, she never come back in. Minutsa, you said?
Q. I did, yes.
A. Oh, Minutsa. She stopped probably -- stopped probably six months ago.
24 Feb 2017 14:20
Q. So right now the only regular attendees at church services are you and your wife, Traian and his wife, Dmytro Popovych and his wife and your son Mike and his wife?
A. No, he not married.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. He is not married.
Q. Oh, I apologize. So let me just do the rundown again. So it's -- the regular church attendees are yourself and your wife, Traian and his wife, Dmytro and his wife, your son, Mike, and John Patrutz's wife, Viorica Patrutz?
Q. And Veronica?
Q. Anybody else?
Q. All right. I do not have any further questions.
MS. RUSSELL: Would you like to advise him on waiver?
MR. McCAFFERTY: Yes. Mike, if they ask to have this typed up, you would be allowed to get a copy of it or go to their offices to review it, not to change any of your answers, but just to make sure they were taken down accurately. I can tell you that Dmytro and George, I think, both waived signature, if I am not mistaken. Do you remember?
THE NOTARY: Mr. Mohan and Mr. Popovych waived signature.
MR. McCAFFERTY: George didn't. I am just going to advise you to waive signature on this. Okay?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. McCAFFERTY: All right. Did you get that?
THE NOTARY: Yes.
MR. McCAFFERTY: Thanks.
(Deposition concluded at 3:26 p.m.)
24 Feb 2017 14:48
According to the letter to the elders...the judge, miraldi, dismissed their case because of the elders not passing along the minutes from the 09/12/15 meeting to stefans and mohan. Is this the judges reason or is this petras' reason why the judge dismissed their case?
24 Feb 2017 14:50
Can we please see the court document from the judge, miraldi, in his words why he dismissed this case.
Some of these days we'll post it as a separate topic.
24 Feb 2017 17:01
Thank you moderator.
7 Mar 2017 9:45
All you need to do to steal a Church from the believers is to add a sloppy row of bricks to cover up the Apostolic Christian on the street sign, then change the legal name in the State you reside in and the Church is yours, free and square!!
7 Mar 2017 10:46
Some other unknown people also called NAZARENE may come in and take the building.
It has happen in the passed about 50 years ago.
What goes around comes around!!!
6 Jun 2017 22:51
could they not have bought a #9 of the church # so it looks identical, hey?
21 Aug 2017 17:07
Dad, I love you. Dana.
26 Aug 2017 14:41
Anyone reading this, if you contributed to persecuting the remaining members of Columbia Station, here are some key points for you to consider:
1. Those remaining members made it “public” and confessed before the law of Ohio in their deposition that they were wrong and were sorry for the original split of the first group who left Columbia Station. With that being said, after reading the comments made on this site, some took judgement and made it a point to express that their apology and repentance wasn’t “good” enough. My heart is warmed by the humility of the brethren who confessed that they were wrong.
2. For those of you who were hurt by the original split, I understand your hurt, but I cannot relate to your silence in the matter of the church being stolen, and “possibly” in the lack of forgiveness to those who confessed that they were wrong.
11 Sep 2017 8:04
What’s really interesting about the comments made on this website is how the Australians who attend the ACCN made several vague comments accusing Mihal of creating problems in Australia without mentioning specifics. These are baseless accusations. If you want to accuse Mihal P of crating problems in Australia reference specifics events, topics of decisions, etc. I mean seriously you have Australians here commenting who don't attend your churches wanting to kill themselves base on thievery [specific event]. Reference specifics you have the examples on this website.
A B U S E R
S : H
A L L O F S H A M E
AWAY FROM THIS MAN! His mouth is
full of Biblical
verses but his heart is filled with hatred, jealousy, treachery and
power. This FALSE CHRISTIAN is the root of almost all evil in ACCN in
and he will even take you to court, if he can't get his way.
pretty much like Paul, dishonest and unloving, just less intelligent.
Janko is now building his humongous "warehouse" in Tarneit, destined to
of both faith and members. This UNREPENTED SINNER is still dreaming
becoming an elder!
and egoistic, this long-time "elder" has caused immense grief, division
misery amongst the Nazarenes in Australia. Some even call him a
sadist... not that Andrew really cares about anyone's opinion, though.
Currently residing in a nursing home in Perth.
nickname by constantly repeating "Ljubazni" (Dear Ones) while
preaching. This recently appointed "elder assistant" is ambitious, but
at the same time not
clever enough to realize he will always be just Paul's and Janko's
is Paul Pentsa's son-in-law and
definitely his best student. Proud, stubborn, arrogant - a classic
bigot. Due to his off-putting personality and some weird beliefs, he's
not on very
good terms with Janko Tomek and other Slovaks in Tarneit.
future Elder, whether you like the idea or not. Nicky is "a very nice
guy". No gift for preaching or
leadership skills, but being Paul Pentsa's son, he's actually got
everything he needs. Sooner or later his Dad will find the way to
install him as his successor.
Tomek's loyal admirer and bodyguard - sleazy, hypocritical, dishonest
His interpretation of the Scriptures can make you laugh as well as his
awkward sermons in
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and Mental Abuse
in ACCN in Australia -