Spiritual and Mental Abuse in Apostolic Christian Church Nazarene in Australia
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ACCN Forum | Brunswick Hills: Marrying outside the faith? ACCN Forum
Brunswick Hills: Marrying outside the faith?

18 Sep 2019 10:25
Received by email:

Can someone verify that an Elder was ordained in Brunswick Hills church 2 weeks ago and this Saturday he will be marrying a sister in the faith and her fiance of whom does NOT nor ever attended that church?

Is this now accepted by the Elder body and of those elders who laid hands on this new Simulj elder? Have the official rules been changed by the elder body of marrying outside the faith? Looking for some clarity
on this subject.

18 Sep 2019 11:57
Hey Moderator, why did you remove my comment? Maybe the Holy Spirit is pricking your heart? Don't resist Him.

18 Sep 2019 12:19
What's pricking my heart are endless, boring, repetitive comments condemning this website. You don't have to travel all the way from Maryland USA down to this Australian website if you don't want to, no one is forcing you. And if you still feel a need to complain, here is a thread for that:

Welcome: ACCN Forum

18 Sep 2019 13:02
You know what, Mark Meister, if you elders did what was Biblical, this website wouldn't exist.

We are sick of all you elders and your hypocrisy. You make us promise one thing during baptism and then you do the opposite AND THEN PROCEED TO CONDEMN THOSE WHO QUESTION YOU.

to ACCN elders
18 Sep 2019 13:15

read slowly
read carefully
its for YOU

Romans 2
1. Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4. Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5. But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6. Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

get thee hence
18 Sep 2019 21:29
Matthew 4:10

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan:........

bible is very clear
18 Sep 2019 21:31
what part of this does anyone NOT understand....

Deuteronomy 7:3

You are not to intermarry with them. You are not to give your daughters to their sons nor take their daughters for your sons,

it cannot get any clearer.....

19 Sep 2019 5:54
Hello again Moderator. You're right, nobody is forcing me to visit this sight. Nobody forced the prophets to go to the people and deliver God's warnings either, but they did. Some listened and some didn't. Like those who refused to listen, you are obviously prepared to accept the eternal consequences of your sin. I pity you and the others here who contribute. By the way, I'm not from Maryland like you think. I always use a VPN.

19 Sep 2019 9:47
Using VPN? And you are now in Chicago? Why are you hiding?

I wonder, how come that those who attack this website always appear to be some liars, cheats and creeps?

So strange.

19 Sep 2019 11:46
Anyway, enough about this website, please proceed with the subject:

Brunswick Hills: Marrying outside the faith?

wondering fr/Canada
20 Sep 2019 13:19
Brunswick Hills now has themselves an elder that is one heck of a light weight spiritually and intellectually, with Avon that nicely makes a pair. It is after all the default catch-all Ohio area church when you fail in, or have had enough of your previous church. The new and current Norton, Ohio you could say.

All the spiritually empty (but religiously rich?) vacuous vessels that think marrying someone not baptized by ACCA, ACCN or DS/NCC hands - is a sin unto death: go ahead with RELEVANT New TESTAMENT scripture - enquiring minds want to know.

20 Sep 2019 14:56
Nice “Canada“, your posts aree as sheepish as your clothing

20 Sep 2019 15:23

u r very pitiful
20 Sep 2019 19:49
1 Corinthians 7:39
39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

is linked spiritually in the same context as:

Deuteronomy 7:3
You are not to intermarry with them. You are not to give your daughters to their sons nor take their daughters for your sons,

dont come here with a pathetic unbiblical justification of marrying outside the Faith.

you asked for bible verses, and you got it, in the old and new testament.

where is your old or new testament verse/s that JUSTIFY marrying outside the Faith??

wondering fr/Canada
21 Sep 2019 2:38
Was the previous post a joke? It would be scary to be taught the Bible from someone like that. Both of your references are pathetically and completely irrelevant to marriage between Christians - we are not discussing adultery or separation of the Canaanites!!! Would have been better to use that often used ACCN phrase "we marry in the Lord" that sits empty without explanation from God's Word.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:14 KJV

Above is pretty much the only New Testament reference that would apply to whom a Christian should marry as well as other things like Partnerships of any kind incl business etc.

I would be terrified to stand in judgement before God after having judged and pronounced souls who are Born Again Christians and having been cleansed by the blood of Jesus as unbelievers only because they were not baptized by ACCA, ACCN or DS/NCC hands. If you make it a point of order and a rule inside of a congregation that is one thing but to call it a sin unto death is horrific. God forbid.

But God's word cautions us below To Be watchful.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21 KJV

You have to get to know people and their walk and never dismiss them out right.

If I am completely out to lunch I welcome anyone's councel based on the wisdom of God's word.

To: Canada
21 Sep 2019 6:03
I want to know what you think of having converts make commitments, and then years later, you change your opinion on the topic. Do you believe that those converts who made a covenant will just change their minds because the elders said so? I think that there is more to this topic.

where is your verse
22 Sep 2019 0:37
you are not giving bible, chapter nor verse to back up your point here that marrying outside the Faith is Biblically accepted.


your point, or more like not point, has no effect biblically quoted anyway whatsoever.

dont humiliate Gods word that HAS been quoted regarding the point in question.
if you are attempting to point your point across, then use biblical verses to justify marrying outside the Faith.

otherwise, back off with all other explanations on what is not the related to the topic.

Re to Canada
22 Sep 2019 6:03
Some on testimony nights in the past have been asked to promise things about television and sports and other ridiculous things and that adultery idolatry murder fornication are all sins unto death in addition to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Now those other sins other than blasphemy are called Sins Of Separation thankful that the elders have finally come to their senses and see what's truth from the Word and what's not. Often those who change their minds do so because they've grown out of man-made religious rules that are trying to be elevated to the doctrinal level into the freedom that is in Christ.

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Matthew 15:8 KJV
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matthew 15:9 KJV

Not sure if this previous post is "aimed" at me or in general but it has the feel of a drive-by shooting void of any substance much less reference to God's word. Marrying outside the faith? is that the best you can come up with? Nobody is talking about marriage to Hindus Muslims Sikhs so maybe go to this website before you had your second or third glass of wine. why am I even dignifying dribble like that, someone else please respond to this person.

not biblical
22 Sep 2019 10:49

Sins Of Separation is not a biblical text

dont come with a non biblical text

quote bible, chapter or verse please if you want to

to not biblical
23 Sep 2019 3:33
what about you?? I don't see a scriptural reference to your supposed rebuttal. Another pathetic drive by shooting empty comment void of any real substance.

You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.Matt 23:24

Anyway let me clarify for the non US/Canada readers. Sins of separation is not a biblical term but rather a term of church order or practice that the North American elder body came up a number of years ago, with meaning that those who commit certain sins are to be separated from the membership and no longer convicted and labelled as having committed a sin unto death.

please explain
23 Sep 2019 11:43
you are getting off track on the reason for this topic or marrying outside the faith.

the bible reverences given are:

1 Cor.7:39
........ only in the Lord.


You are not to intermarry with them......

where are YOUR bible references that its ok to marry outside the Faith?

23 Sep 2019 12:14
you up?

27 Sep 2019 11:24
Wow, what has happened to our faith? I HEAR THAT THE WEDDING IN BRUNSWICH CHURCH took place, and that at the reception they had dancing and other worldly practices that the groom is comfortable with, but very strange to our faith! If our old elders would be alive, the whole church would be under the rod, and the elder restricted from church work! But it must be so, that those approved will show their patience and wait for the Lord, Like lot was in the midst of where he choose to live, yet he was grived and vexed in the spirit daily as he beheld what took place.

Any smart ph video
27 Sep 2019 12:49
Richard Jankov from the Wooster,OH church was video taped having a father-daughter dance at her wedding. But at least he is an excellent speaker from the pulpit and has a good bible course at his school. Since King David (not David Nikoylovic/Nicholson) danced before the Lord are we being too Nazarene style judgemental?
However if you are not in favour of this make sure is true about that BH wedding and not listening to gossip from the West Akron or Cleveland Romanian Supreme Court justices.
BTW our faith/NazRel has evolved in some good and some not not so good ways.

Watchman Watcher
27 Sep 2019 15:13
Sad. Still really care this mcuh about BrunswIch after leaving for Akron?

27 Sep 2019 15:39
Nobody left for Akron in at least 10 or 15 years so whst do you mean?

27 Sep 2019 16:29
Many years ago the late Elder George Freund, put Perry couple for dancing at their wedding from the same church! I know that King David wanted. but then he has more wives, and he killed thousands, But we live now under Christ't teaching.The old testement allowed so many things that Jesús changed, by saying,But I say unto you.So forget about what David did, and follow what Jesus said.

dont be defiled
27 Sep 2019 22:11
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

undefiled means:
- Something that is undefiled is something that is pure, wholesome, and without blemish. It is free from stain or blemish and is immaculate or pure and having no faults.
- things or people that are pure and not mingling with the filth

unspotted means:
keep your spiritually garment not contaminated by the world, sin, filth

Romans 12:2
"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God."

conformed means:
- To make agreeable to
- To comply with, by obeying and following

27 Sep 2019 23:15
do we have any photos from the brunswick marriage

not to label??????
27 Sep 2019 23:20
to not biblical

with meaning that those who commit certain sins are to be separated from the membership and no longer convicted and labelled as having committed a sin unto death.

"ALL" those sins unto death NEED to be labelled, and its the ONLY way it can be labelled "SINS UNTO DEATH" because its biblical and true.

its not a separation from the church, its SINS UNTO DEATH....

do not ADD or TAKE AWAY from the bible whoever you are:
- ACCN member
- ACCN elder
- ACCN elder body
- ACCN elder committee

read slowly, carefully and kindly:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

28 Sep 2019 1:31
It is astounding to me that so many here actually believe that marrying outside of the church is a sin unto death. Read your Bibles people! It is clear that there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism (Ephesians 4:5). ALL Christians around the world are one in Christ. To say otherwise is ignorant and false teaching. Furthermore, in Revelation 7:9 John said, "I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands..." Do you really believe that multitude in heaven is all ACCN? Like it or not, all those who accept Christ as their savior from any denomination are our brothers and sisters in the Lord and we will ALL be in heaven together. There is no such thing as "marrying outside the faith."

28 Sep 2019 4:27
Jewish Christians danced at weddings then and now. It's supposed to be a celebration when one man and one women follow God's ordained institution to become one. It's in our culture and their culture too. It's a happy joyous time! Read Psalms! Obviously need to consider what kind of songs you're dancing to, and also whether the dancing is appropriate or not. Dancing is also a form of worship too. There is nothing wrong with dancing at all. I think worship in our church would be much more enjoyable if it was accepted to express your joy like described in the Psalms. Next time, take note and see whether those around you actually are singing from the heart, or just going through the motions. Look at the people sleeping or not attentive during the sermon too....

not true
28 Sep 2019 10:58
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

these verses ARE true

spiritaul meaning
28 Sep 2019 11:13
1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

does anyone know the spiritual meaning of this verse?

To spiritual meaning
28 Sep 2019 13:19
it's explained exactly, clearly and beautifully in the verses that follow up to verse 11, v 5 refers to the unbeliever, look esp at verse 9 and 10 which provides comfort to the believer:
For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.

Thanks and glory to our Saviour the Lord Jesus and our Heavenly Father Jehovah and Yahweh.

Others please shed more light on this verse if I have fallen short.

28 Sep 2019 13:49
It seems that the definition of "The faith" is seriously mixed up in ACCN circles.
Something is very wrong with a persons mindset when a church believes that only they are saved. It makes God look small and incompetent. So which humans are responsible for instilling this into people? Because it only serves to divide good families and ruins relationships that could be used for God and for the greater good.
I have seen lives of families quietly ruined because of such arrogance and division.

fine point
28 Sep 2019 22:16
nobody knows who is going to be accepted into Gods kingdom,
we know whether the teaching of a christian denomination IS or ISN'T on the foundation of Jesus Christ.
this we CAN say clearly, and do NEED to voice it out openly....
denominations that allow their members to go to war and fight the enemy are NOT on the foundation of Jesus Christ, never was and never will be.....
this eliminates MOST christian so called named denominations.
this is one point that openly eliminates them as NOT being on the foundation of Jesus Christ....
so, not everyone that says Lord Lord will enter....but those they do the will of the Father.

ACCN notions
28 Sep 2019 23:30
The general notion among the ACCN circle is that ,the only ACCN Nazarenes have faith ...
The rest of the Christians are going to Hell because they are not even believers...
They belong to the category of PAGANS or just "coldly" -unbelievers- !...
It is a curse that GOD won't take easily at the "judgement day".

It is a serious judgement that will be overview-ed by God at the last day! All the judgements will be re- judged / overview-ed / By GOD ...!
This judgement for other Christians was fabricated , for separation and grudge ;
That happened at the " crusade " , when millions of Christians suffered martyrdom and died at the hands of other "false-Christians... "
There is no difference at this time !
People who hates Christian-brothers or other Christians are,committing "deadly -sin ."And they are loosing their eternal life.
According to the bible .

Hope for Future
28 Sep 2019 23:56
ACCN can and does have many rules, guidelines, policies, etc which define membership in the ACCN. These vary from country to country and church to church, and are usually based on biblical principles and guidance, although sometimes based on tradition or culture. All of which for the most part is fine. ACCN can make its own rules.

But ACCN should never confuse its denominational membership approach with membership in the body of Christ. These are 2 different things. Often with sad/tragic outcomes that are avoidable.

We have the staunch traditionalists (please don't use the word conservative as they clearly are not) who use bible verses out of context to argue that ACCN membership is the same as being a Christian. This is misguided at best, and silly/destructive at worst. They will not change and will not leave and would rather see the patient die than try a new treatment. And then cloak all of this in false spirituality.

Over time with the Spirit's leading, true Christians read the Bible and realize that ACCN positions like fraternization, sins unto death, baptismal regeneration, ACCN-only marriages, KJV only, punishments, etc are actually wrong and destructive. So, they must choose - stay and either fight it out or maybe stay quiet, or......... eventually leave. Either position is incredibly painful. I think most leave.

But it doesn't have to be that way. God can intervene and work through current leadership to help the ACCN retain what is good (and there is a lot of that) and change what is not or no longer good (and there is way too much of that). I believe this can happen, and I believe only if God moves. That is the prayer and hope of probably many more ACCN members than we think or realize.

House divided
29 Sep 2019 2:42
ACCN is a house divided between religious and spiritual. some cling to church order and traditions thinking that they vicariously can then be spiritual - because those orders and traditions come clearly from the Bible which often untrue or awkwardly or incorrectly applied. things like sins unto death, fraternization, marriage, exclusivity of the denomination, worship style,and on and on

But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
Luke 11:17 KJV

Our ACCN is already listing like the Titanic and the leadership is content to rearrange the chairs to face the other way

inevitable devision
29 Sep 2019 11:19
The division is inevitable if you want to go to HAVEN .

You can't have internal life with one leg here, and your other leg is with the " GOATS ", who are going to HELL . Because they are continually evil and judgemental against God's-will.
God separates the goats, from the lambs as it is promised !

"Impossible to serve "two lords" at the same time ... " !!!!!!
/ It is in the bible/

" The Lord is one , the faith is one , and Christianity is one ." !
/ It is in the bible.../

If someones keeping themselves out from this circle , they live in the " darkness" and the HELL will follow ... , not the HAVEN .

The " goats" and Pharisees will be left out in darkness .

Jesus cautioned to keep the distance of the "LEAVEN of the Pharisees" , because they make the whole dough to be rotten ...

As it happens this days ....

ACCN- Elderism
29 Sep 2019 11:46
Playing "- churchianty - " under the umbrella of the -ELDERISM- is a
slow and sure death of spiritual life .

ACCN is a cult of exercising Elderism ....

Worshiping elders is an idol !!!!
God hates the idols and idol worshipers too...

ACCN is on the wrong track .

1 Oct 2019 1:00

ALL Christians around the world are one in Christ

this is a lie from hell, painted very well, and sealed with gloves by the devil.

why does it clearly state:
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

because.......there ARE many false christians.

dont try and humiliate reality, nor value falsehood.

there is only a hand full of christians that do not go to war, fight the enemy.
this is a minority.
majority are not on the foundation of Jesus Christ.

you shall know them by their works, not by their words.

You will know them by their fruits.

To Unbelivable:
1 Oct 2019 3:48
"Like it or not, all those who accept Christ as their savior from any denomination are our brothers and sisters in the Lord"

This is incorrect and not Biblical. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.

We do not want to be equally yoked with those who enter at the "Wide Gate" for all who do will be destroyed in Hell Fire!

God is in charge.
1 Oct 2019 10:48
Do not be deceived. Narrow Gate does not mean only ACCN.

Revelation 7:9 John said, "I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindred, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands.

God knows what He is doing.

TARES pickers !
1 Oct 2019 11:37
Yes,- there are weeds and " tares " in the wheat-field ...
that was planted unintentionally , caused by the devil .

But the "tares" should be selected out at the time of the harvest and NOT BEFORE !!!!

O. K ??????

Please read Matt. 13, 24-30 ...

To select and pull-out the TARES,/ out from the plantation of wheat/ ,- before harvest-, is a sin because it is causing harm for the wheat , that was planted by GOD -HIM -SELF ... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only the foolish , evil , and thoughtless people are acting that way ...

God already prepares the Hell for he "TARES- picker -ACCN- members" , because Jesus died for all the Christians, all over the World .

Jesus died for ALL , not just the gathering of 20 000 Frohlich Samuel's followers ...
Frohlich Samuel the "Refomist - priest" started the ACCN 200 years ago and these people are blindly following him to his grave only.

They don't follow JESUS , who is in the HAVEN and Eternity .

works not words
1 Oct 2019 14:22
we are missing the point of the foundation teaching of jesus christ.

not the name behind us as christians.

its, are we on the foundation of jesus christ

name means nothing

its the works that prove who we are...

Ridiculous brainwash
1 Oct 2019 17:22
The wretched ,quarrelsome S.H Frohlic's people ACCN are stating and declaring that they are the "only" followers of JESUS CHRIST ...

So that the HAVEN was made to them ~~~~....!

They are the only privileged people of GOD .
/ Less then 2o thousand worldwide /

The rest of the 1 000 000 000 Christians are faithless people ...Just like PAGANS ????!
It is an abomination to GOD !...

Jesus did not come to tell to S. H. Froehlich at the year of 1830 to choose or call out;
a special bunch of people, out from the Reformists ,to fill up the Haven...

please answer
1 Oct 2019 20:12
- can you list 20 christian denominations that do not allow their members to go to war, or to kill the enemy?

1 Cor.3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

22. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?
23. Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'

It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

foundation question
1 Oct 2019 20:13
we are talking about the foundation and teaching of jesus christ, not s.h.froelich

find for yourself
1 Oct 2019 20:36
even the jewish people still go to war and fight the enemy.

even the jewish people (majority if not all) are still blinded.

they still go to war, resist evil, fight back, fight the enemy, and read and follow the old testament.

2 Cor.3:
15: But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16: Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

1 Oct 2019 21:26
To anyone of you who disagree with my previous post about ALL Christians around the world being saved:

Your argument is that other denominations allow military service, and that excludes them from heaven. This argument does not stand up to what Jesus himself teaches. Go read Matthew 8:5-13. The centurion, a military leader, was found by Jesus to have more faith than anyone in all of Israel. You better wake up and be very careful who you condemn and cast judgment upon. Some of you will be very surprised who is in heaven and who is not.

dont be deceived
1 Oct 2019 22:36
Jesus did not allow the centurion to kill.

don't be deceived.

whoever it may be, whether a christian or an atheist, if its morally correct, it still makes it good.

this doesn't mean he will or wont get to heaven, that thing in question is rightly done or wrongly done.

if an atheist speaks the truth, does that mean an atheist will get to heaven by speaking the truth but not believing in God?

But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

Luke 6:27
But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.

Jesus replied, "'You shall not murder,..............

in new testament times, and the new testament church, does not allow killing, military service, resisting the enemy or fighting the enemy.

Jesus taught in the above verses this very clearly and plainly.

it cannot change for ANY christian denomination, whether you choose to believe it or not.

even for the jews
1 Oct 2019 22:46
even in the old testament and for the jews, it's written that they too should get rid of the military, stop killing, committing murder, going to war....... etc

Isaiah 2:
1. The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

read slowly:
- beat their swords into plowshares
- and their spears into pruninghooks:
- nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
- neither shall they learn war any more.

To Unbelievable:
1 Oct 2019 23:38
I stand by my post...We do not want to be equally yoked with those who enter at the "Wide Gate" for all who do will be destroyed in Hell Fire!

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

My friend we are talking about a lot more then military service. The Bible teaches repentance, conversion, and living a sanctified life.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

war and justice
2 Oct 2019 2:13
There is a vast difference between murder( which is based on premeditated hate and revenge) and killing. God who we know changes not, allowed killing throughout the ages BUT ALWAYS for a just cause. so let's not deceive ourselves that all killing is wrong.

Military and police are ordained of government who are ordained of God. is God ordaining and directly the military and the police only to send them straight to hell? I think not. that would not be a just and loving God. please read below.

Romans 13:1-7

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themself damnation.

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
(this verse is for the justification for capital punishment)

Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
(we don't follow the law only because of fear but because it's the right thing to do)

For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Absolutely there can military and police and even executioners who are saved in the sight of God. Unless the Apostle Paul is wrong in your eyes.

SHow me someone who would not call the police when they are their loved ones are threatened and expect them to do whatever is necessary or is not thankful for military intervention especially during World War II when Europe was threatened - and I'll show you a hypocrite and a liar and religious heretic.

Isaiah 2 is just history my friend in a specific context and not at all about the last days before the Lord's return ... but it sounds good so that's why you put it in :)

Love Your Enemies
2 Oct 2019 4:17
Dear War & Justice blogger: The Bible never says to kill for any reason. People who kill go to Hell.

And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

2 Oct 2019 6:21
WOW! I can't believe the above post (Canada above this one) that you think killing is ok for a Christian. That is just plain disgusting. Would Jesus have been a police officer? Would He have gone to war killing enemies? NO! He said LOVE your enemies. I don't know who you are but you need to seriously repent because you are on the devil's road.

In other words the brethren all went to jail for nothing during WW2. They could have gone and shot people and still gone to heaven. WOW

2 Oct 2019 9:28
I don’t know if this will add anything to the discussion, but I found a letter by Samuel Froehlich in the book called ‘Evidence,’ pages 198-200 (or thereabouts), where he comments on “war service.” The text below is taken directly from the book:

January 18, 1848 To Brother Hodel in Ehrstaedten (Baden)

Concerning war service, I first of all wish to say that I ten to twelve years ago was strongly inclined to the side or opinion of the brothers in Canton Bern, who by a law in the church forbid, with expulsion, war service to all whom it concerned. However, since then I have reverted from this severity and hold that we are not permitted to make a law if God does not make one. He is the only Lawgiver (Jas. 4:12), and consequently we may not punish. A divine command and an inhibition concerning it I do not find in the Scripture, neither in the Old or in the New Testament, but the passages which I believed I can or should refer to in the matter are such that perhaps permit of application only, for example, II Corinthians 10:3. All that I find in the New Testament is that the Lord Jesus for His cause, for His spiritual kingdom, for the defense of the faith would not have it that we lay hold of carnal weapons.

But therewith is war service in itself not done away with, which will have its continuance and use of force as long as the present form of this world stands, for the time of which is prophesied that no nation will learn war any more and in which swords will be beaten into plowshares, still lies ahead in the Millenium Sabbath of the people of God, when the rest of the nations will be converted to the Lord and will bow under His scepter of peace.

In the Old Testament, war service for the people of God was like a divine service and David carried on many wars for the Lord and nevertheless was a man after the heart of God and the Lord was with Him. Only he was not permitted to build the temple because he had shed so much blood, the work having been reserved for the man of peace, Solomon.

In the New Testament, we find war people who also were concerned about the salvation of their souls and, what is more, were outstanding believers and blessed children of God, and of whom I do not find that either John the Baptist or Jesus Himself, or His apostles, gave them a command that if they become converted they would have to give up their rank. To me, the chief question is simply this: Is war service itself such work that excludes men from the kingdom of God and robs them of their eternal salvation? I believe that if that were so, God would not have left us in uncertainty concerning it, but would have given us a definite command to warn everyone. For the commandment, Thou shalt not kill, cannot possibly apply or refer to war service, but only to high-handed, perfidious killing out of hatred in peace times. Thus, for example, did Joab kill many people in war, but only his treacherous assassination of Abner and Amasa was accounted to him as sin.

But even if I should be forced to bear arms, it would still lie with me whether I wanted to kill men, and the oath least of all would I swear, and if I had to suffer on that account it then were for conscience’ sake to God. Even though I at heart would not like to make a law against war service, it nevertheless as a matter of conscience is left to each brother’s option as to whether he would not accept such service and is willing to suffer on that account. In this he is a law unto himself and should do according to his conscience before God and not against his conscience. But if a brother should say: I have no conscience concerning it, then should I not make him a conscience.

What belongs to war service, to me, is by far not synonymous with churchly [ecclesiastical] acts such as infant baptism and the like, but is a physical service which the authorities demand, inasmuch as we are subjects of the worldly authorities. I would consider it a civic duty and not like a churchly idolatry and defilement of the Spirit, by which one banishes himself from God. Now, if I can agree to expulsion of such who defile themselves with churchly acts because the word of God distinctly decrees concerning it, I nevertheless would not agree to expulsion on account of war service because I find no decision and decree in the word of God on it and also because I do not believe that God excludes those in it from His kingdom or He might not have revealed Himself to them in such a glorious way and even if the first converted believer from the heathen (in Acts 10,7) were of the order of war people. I will say no kind word in favor of war service, but I would like to consider the matter in the right light, so that at all events no schism exist in the churches.

S.H. Froehlich

false christians
2 Oct 2019 11:03
WOW! I can't believe the above post (Canada above this one) that you think killing is ok for a Christian.

thats why there are MANY false christians

thats the answer....

to kill is sin
2 Oct 2019 11:12
MANY Christians were in the military, war, killing....
the Nazarenes were in prison for not wanting to serve the military, go to war or kill

2 Cor.10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood.......

these above NEW testament verses eliminates old testament allowing to kill.

don't mix old testament and new testament teachings on this....


Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

God doesn't allow us to transgress His word because of the rules made by the authorities that contradict Gods word.

If they do not contradict Gods word, then we need to obey.

God is above all
2 Oct 2019 11:19
to: ALK

thank you for this

but the word of God in the new testament churches are above S.H. Froelich's beliefs, teachings or sermons.

2 Cor.10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood.......

these NEW testament verses eliminates old testament allowing to kill.

john the baptist stated to "do violence to no man".

is there ANY military that does NOT do violence?

are we that blinded?

Jesus taught love your enemy.

Would anyone kill someone that they love?

Has the devil deceived THAT many?

To Unbelievable
2 Oct 2019 12:08
The best you can do is spout off the same old tired EuroNazarene rhetoric - not a single reference to God's word.

Jesus wasn't a police officer or a lot of other necessary earthly job positions.

"Mister Trump have you even read the Constitution that you purport to defend so vigorously!"

If it was their conscious not to take up arms and instead go to prison that's perfectly fine. It was a devastatingly hard life is I'm well aware from first-hand experience.

But for the others whose conscience was different you do not have the right to condemn them to hell as you sit so smugly in your comfortable USA house and sing your heart out in the West Akron Church or Lawndale type in the land of Freedom free from war and threats.

Even Froehlich gets it.

Pick and choose which scripture you tend to agree with and call Apostle Paul's teaching invalid if you wish.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Matthew 23:23 KJV

spiritual meaning
2 Oct 2019 13:09
God's word in the new testament churches are above S.H. Froelich's beliefs, teachings or sermons.
2 Cor.10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood.......
these NEW testament verses eliminates old testament allowing to kill.
john the baptist stated to "do violence to no man".
is there ANY military that does NOT do violence?
re. Rom 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
another example where the old testament teaching was the outward circumcision, and the new testament teaching is a spiritually meaning.
same with the killing issue
its a spiritually meaning, not literal killing,

It's clear
2 Oct 2019 14:31
Actually I gave you a very clear SCRIPTURE but you choose to ignore it. LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. Shooting them is not loving them as far as I'm concerned. But who knows, the Biblical definition of "love" may have changed just like every other law in the Bible you claim has "changed meaning" in order to fulfill your "sin in a believer's life is fine" doctrine and fit RIGHT into the evil world. God knows them that are His. And HIS definitely don't shoot each other. Unbelievable.

2 Oct 2019 20:04
thats why its clear that there is SO MANY false christians......

christian means a follower of Christ.

did Christ teach kill your enemy or love your enemy?

its not that hard to understand nor accept

Dear friend
2 Oct 2019 21:02
Jesus said that there is no greater love than to lay ones life down for their friends. John 15:13
He also said that hating your brother is exactly like murder.
A dedicated soldier will fully lay down his life for his friends, and even the entire country to protect them.

Words of our Savior
2 Oct 2019 23:01
How are we conveniently forgetting that he will also kill his friends? Oh wait, nevermind, those are his enemies. Now, what does Jesus say about enemies again?

Hasnt changed
2 Oct 2019 23:09
Interestingly enough, and thanks be to the Lord, the most extreme liberal elders have not changed their stance on killing in war. Even they are united in this simple Biblical teaching. Ive actually never heard a baptism yet where they didnt ask this of the convert. So im not sure where your viewpoint is from. Are you ACC? If not, its fine, its just that this is not a teaching of our church at all.

cant & wont change
2 Oct 2019 23:34
killing is still forbidden, anyway and everyway, because its a teaching by Jesus Christ, without partiality, and with no exception to the rule.

Mark 10:
18. And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Romans 13:1-7
3 Oct 2019 1:14
Common citizens arent required to kill anyone. In fact that IS illegal anyway.
But every country has a military which stems from the government which God has put in place.
Is there a large nation anywhere on earth without a military? What could possibly go wrong?
Romans 13:1-7 says that the government must be obeyed because God has put it there.

3 Oct 2019 17:38
Thank GOD we are in Australia and you are in America -CANADA live in the free countries , where the good people are valued . Also they revere your "religious- conscience" without consequence ...
That is the reality today ,but we don't know ,what the future holds .

Please bear it in mind , that it was a grate -reason , "why" God has sent His only begotten son JESUS to renew the COVENANT !!!!!! ...

God sacrificed his own Son to bring to us the "new covenant", the ELEVENTH commandment :
That is the LOVE ! --- " Love your enemy !" ---

God has corrected or modified" the "ten - commandment" ..../ Even if you believe it or not/
/Please don't forget that God is a sovereign GOD /

So that , a new chapter started between the mankind and God ,2000 years ago !!!The life of N A Z A R E N E S ...or PILGRIMS .

Consequently the old testament remained to us as a " reference-book only"...As a history book only ...!

The Nazarenes or ACCN members are the "followers of J E S U S"
only !!!!/ Or ought to be like that /
Forget the confusing old testament, that is not relevant after the "new testament" has been given to us...
The old testament figures are not examples any more!!!!! .
Not DAVID or not even SALAMON or others from the old testament were the followers of the "law of love "!!!

They are biblical figures only ,from the history of mankind and God dealt with them...

People who are "redeemed by Jesus" , not permited to kill / It is in many bible references from the NEW TESTAMENT/... The ACCN people have to love and they suppose to love and "THEY SHALL NOT KILL"... !!!!

If some one is not able to stick to it , can pick up the " ZIONS HARFE "of their own and leave ...

Jesus said : If someone is not able give up "everything" for me , not worthy to me ,,,,"""!

Jesus said it where?
3 Oct 2019 19:35
can someone quote a bible chapter and verse where Jesus stated that taking a life of another person is ok in time of war?
when its not a time of war, then its not ok?
that hating your enemy is also ok by Jesus.

i couldnt locate it in my bible.

can someone help me here please?

re. Romans 13; 1-7

these verses do not contradict the teaching of Jesus Christ:
- "thou shalt not kill"
- "love your enemies"

so, meaning we need to obey those in the government, BUT, in the way that it doesnt contradict ANY other of Jesus' teachings.

If they do contradict, then we are not obeying God, Gods way, but the governments' way.

we cannot obey the government ABOVE Gods teachings, nor the governments way, but only Gods way.

Common citizens arent required to kill anyone. In fact that IS illegal anyway.
ANSWER: (NOT TRUE....governments allow you to kill in time of war)

But every country has a military which stems from the government which God has put in place.
ANSWER: (not true....God did not put the governments in place to disobey HIM, nor did God allow the governments to transgress his commandments - they are disobedient to Gods commandments, by allowing same sex marriage, living in immorality...etc)

Is there a large nation anywhere on earth without a military? What could possibly go wrong?
ANSWER: (the governments are accountable to God, and will be accountable to God if they disobey or transgress. A military is from the devil to kill, destroy. This is not Gods way)

this is proof that MOST countries/governments/rulers/kings do NOT obey Gods command to them.

God is commanding the same to them likewise "thou shalt not kill" and
thou shalt not bear false witness
thou shalt not steal
thou shalt not commit adultery
its the same for them in power as well, not different.

not christian
3 Oct 2019 19:38
this is proof that MOST countries/governments/rulers/kings are not christian governments....

its very plain and simple.

in fact, EVERY country that has a military and allows killing is NOT a christian country.

there is no other way to explain it.

Christian or not
3 Oct 2019 20:14
There are many real life instances where a crazed person will actually go on a dangerous rampage quickly killing and injuring as many school children as they can. Should the killer just be allowed to continue?

why fear man?
3 Oct 2019 21:38
many gave their lives for Jesus Christ, because they didnt want to transgress Gods ways, principles, law, commandments...etc

did they kill someone to avoid prison terms?
did they kill someone to avoid being sentenced?
did they kill someone to avoid being burdened as a Christian?
did they kill someone to avoid suffering for Jesus?

if not, why should anyone feel there may possibly be some reason to kill, because the work of the devil in non-christian minds??

For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him,

1 Pet.4:16
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

Act 5:41
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

did john the baptist fear Herod being able to behead him for speaking Gods truth to Herod?
did he fight back with swords and spears so Herod doesnt kill him, as john was in the right????

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
why didn't Jesus say, take up your swords and go fight the enemy?

NT Soldiers
4 Oct 2019 1:07
It is part a fallen world’s existence. The Bible never condemns the actions of a soldier following orders on a battlefield. In fact, the New Testament has examples of soldiers who had faith in God—Jesus commended a centurion’s faith in Matthew 8:10; and another centurion, Cornelius, was saved in Acts 10. These men of war were not rebuked for performing the duties of a centurion, nor were they told they must change professions.

Most tellingly, some soldiers came to John the Baptist as he was baptizing in the Jordan River. The soldiers asked John, “What should we do?” This would have been the perfect opportunity for John to tell them to stop engaging in warfare, stop killing, or stop being soldiers. Instead, John replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay” (Luke 3:14). Being a soldier is not inherently sinful.

Paul uses the soldier life as an illustration of spiritual truth (see 1 Corinthians 9:7 and 2 Timothy 2:3). Other references mention battles and warfare (see 2 Corinthians 10:4 and 1 Timothy 1:18). Ephesians 6 contains an extended comparison of the Christian life and warfare (verses 10–17). If being a soldier (and doing the things soldiers are required to do) were sinful, it is unlikely the Holy Spirit would have used soldiering as a metaphor for anything good.

Throughout the Bible, warfare is presented as a grim reality in a cursed world. There are forces of evil that must be stopped, and bloodshed is sometimes the result. Whether a Christian should serve in the military is a matter of one’s own conscience, but killing an armed combatant in the context of warfare is not sinful in itself. There is a time and season for everything, including war (Ecclesiastes 3:8).

TO : NT Soldiers
4 Oct 2019 9:05
Love your enemies... do good to them who hate you !!!


What the ........ !!!! Please do not preach to us the Word of God upside down.

war after the flesh
4 Oct 2019 9:44
2 Cor.10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood.......

these verses forbid taking a life of another person and going to war.

NT soldiers
4 Oct 2019 9:44
you are a false christian

Last 3 posts
4 Oct 2019 15:02
NT soldiers post gets it just like others who seek truth. You 2 are as blind and biblically ignorant as it gets. do not preach the word of God to us upside down and you are a false Christian ??? what on this planet does that even mean. you 2 Aussise deserve all the crap that Paul Pentsa has heaped on you and more - true disciples of ignorance slinging your dung like that without a real dignified response . I hope he doesn't waste a moment of his time on your types to respond.

TO: .. last 3 posts
4 Oct 2019 15:15
Need education to understand simple English?

You say "what on this planet does that even mean" ?

You are really serious when you say that you don't understand?

Enrolment in education is never too late :-)

verses 4 u dear 1
4 Oct 2019 23:19
1 Tim.1:7
.........understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

paul pentsa has heaped nothing on me or us, he has heaped burdens of heavy loads of sin on himself, his neck, his back..etc

he seems a strong person carrying such a load of sinful actions.

sin is hard to carry (by those true Christians)

and by the way, removed elder paul pentsa is well up to date with comments on this website, and likewise his dear beloved deceitful and bankrupt, failed to become a minister multiple times son paulie pentsa as well....

trying to help you
4 Oct 2019 23:31
re. NT soldiers
There are forces of evil that must be stopped, and bloodshed is sometimes the result. Whether a Christian should serve in the military is a matter of one’s own conscience, but killing an armed combatant in the context of warfare is not sinful in itself.

re.There are forces of evil that must be stopped,

false and completely not true, nor a biblical new testament teaching.

forces of evil must be stopped? who says?
the devil says it.

but Jesus said:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil:.........

you are promoting another lie from hell and from the devil.

Whether a Christian should serve in the military is a matter of one’s own conscience,

completely false and not true.

the word of Jesus Christ is above every governments rules and above everyone's choice of what they allow their conscience to condemn.

Jesus did not say yeah and nay for the same commandment. He did not say thou shalt not kill, unless you are a soldier or unless the governments tell you to.
if there was an exception to the rule, Jesus would have explain it as in the marriage eg.

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

this example has an exception to the rule.

with killing, there is NO verse that explains that there is an exception to the rule.

but killing an armed combatant in the context of warfare is not sinful in itself.

a complete lie and utterly not true.

why, because you did not quote bible, chapter or verse that explains that killing is ok in the new testament churches.

you keep on going around the direct question thats being discussed here.

it means this
5 Oct 2019 22:45
to your comments and qustions dear NT soldiers:

(1): do not preach the word of God to us upside down and
(2): you are a false Christian ???

what on this planet does that even mean.

this is what it means:
(1). dont use Gods word to state we need to do something, when we God is not allowing it
(1) dont use Gods word to state we shouldnt be doing something, when God wants us to do it.

(2). you are professing that you are a follower of Jesus Christ, but you are not a follower of Jesus Christ

To it means this
6 Oct 2019 0:42
1) do not preach the word of God to us upside down

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us of which I of course am the chief ignoramus. Wow coming out of the darkness and into the light on this issue is very liberating. I really thought the preacher needed to preach upside down hanging from his [or her] ankles to relieve lower back pain. Of course the sermon must be short so as to prevent too much blood going into the cranial region resulting in a red face perceived as an angry preacher. I like my preachers smiling not angry please and thank you.

Those esoteric phrases from other cultures don't survive the re-entry into earth's atmosphere when passing through the verbatim translation stage. Just say'in.

2) you are a false Christian

Now I need to educate you on this one. There is no such thing as a false Christian just like there's no such thing as false pregnancy, falsely saved, Christian Rock, Christian pride, works based salvation, transgender etc etc etc. Those are all binary conditions.

Lack of wisdom among some - shocking!

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
James 1:5-6

for u 2 read dear 1
6 Oct 2019 23:51
These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;..........

But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

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