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ACCN Forum | American Elders condemning PP 2006
ACCN Forum
American Elders condemning PP 2006
Some people are wondering if Mark Igic will remind the Mt Cottrell church and the Marsden church that the North American elders and churches acknowledge Altona as free members. Or he's going to enjoy a free trip to Australia like the rest of the other elders?
Why isn't Altona invited to this baptism since the American elders are going to do the work?
American Elders condemning PP 2006
Moderator
Australia
Australia
17 May 2023 14:04
2987 views
2987 views
Some people are wondering if Mark Igic will remind the Mt Cottrell church and the Marsden church that the North American elders and churches acknowledge Altona as free members. Or he's going to enjoy a free trip to Australia like the rest of the other elders?
Why isn't Altona invited to this baptism since the American elders are going to do the work?
reasons
Australia
Australia
17 Aug 2024 21:09
1688 views
1688 views
because elders believe disobedience to Gods Word is allowed, respect of persons is allowed and partiality is allowed.
respect of persons means:
- one whose behavior toward people is influenced by their social status, prestige
- choosing to deal or treat others based on what others broadcast it as, but treating others within the same group nice and politely.
partiality means:
- the fact of unfairly preferring or approving of something/someone (especially elders)
James 2:9
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
1 Timothy 5:21
I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
respect of persons means:
- one whose behavior toward people is influenced by their social status, prestige
- choosing to deal or treat others based on what others broadcast it as, but treating others within the same group nice and politely.
partiality means:
- the fact of unfairly preferring or approving of something/someone (especially elders)
James 2:9
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
1 Timothy 5:21
I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
a note to also add
Australia
Australia
18 Aug 2024 1:31
1682 views
1682 views
Everyone needs to understand that Elder Bro Andrew Kozy made the first splinter group in Australia. (and wasn't removed from eldership for this)
Elder Bro Steve Nenadov continued this splinter group and continued to affirm it too. (and wasn't removed from eldership for this)
Elder Bro Paul Pentsa likewise continued and affirmed it further more.
(and wasn't removed from eldership for this)
Until the North American Elders take responsibility for these actions, real and genuine reconciliation cannot be achieved, regardless how many more times Elders Meetings take place and try to forget the past.
Until the past is repented of, confessed and accountability it taken for the sinful actions, the past is still the present.
Forgetting or forgiving the past with verbal apologies, shedding some tears or allowing God to judge the past, is not Gods standards of repentance.
confessing your sins and accepting the correct discipline for the committed sins brings reconciliation.....
this still has not be conducted.....
does anyone wonder why there are 3 elders in Australia, each working on their own as 3 separate elder committees as such, all working separately from each other, yet were all ordained by the North American Elders.......is it not bizarre to anyone??
its clearly visible that the North American Elders are still continuing these issues rather than bringing discipline in measure for those that have committed the wrong.
where is the accountability for the actions committed?
Elder Bro Steve Nenadov continued this splinter group and continued to affirm it too. (and wasn't removed from eldership for this)
Elder Bro Paul Pentsa likewise continued and affirmed it further more.
(and wasn't removed from eldership for this)
Until the North American Elders take responsibility for these actions, real and genuine reconciliation cannot be achieved, regardless how many more times Elders Meetings take place and try to forget the past.
Until the past is repented of, confessed and accountability it taken for the sinful actions, the past is still the present.
Forgetting or forgiving the past with verbal apologies, shedding some tears or allowing God to judge the past, is not Gods standards of repentance.
confessing your sins and accepting the correct discipline for the committed sins brings reconciliation.....
this still has not be conducted.....
does anyone wonder why there are 3 elders in Australia, each working on their own as 3 separate elder committees as such, all working separately from each other, yet were all ordained by the North American Elders.......is it not bizarre to anyone??
its clearly visible that the North American Elders are still continuing these issues rather than bringing discipline in measure for those that have committed the wrong.
where is the accountability for the actions committed?
PEACE TO BE RESTORED
Australia
Australia
26 Aug 2024 18:11
1573 views
1573 views
John 3:17 - “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
?
Who are we, mere humans, taking so much judgment and responsibility into our own hands? Born into this world, living with our sinful natures is why we must repent and give our lives fully to Christ. Is this how Jesus would want to run the churches - living in division and hate?
Yes, hate is a strong word. It should not be thrown around lightly. But how do we call the church loving if there is so much partiality and division?
Melbourne, VIC, Australia has an elder. Brisbane, QLD Australia has an elder. Will that never be enough for these power-driven “men of God”. They teach that order in the church must be followed; elders whom are anointed are of God’s Will, not their own. So why do they go against their own word?
Yes, we will never have peace on this Earth. Sin will always be present. That is why we repent and get baptised. That is why we humble ourselves to the Lord and follow His works and doctrine. Because our own hearts convict us to put our trust in the Lord, not man. Our hearts should be convicting us to forgive and love each other! Make peace with the churches. If Bro. Vlado and Janko are unable to bring the Altona church together with Mt. Cottrell, how are they ready for eldership?
It is pride that is evil and comes from within, defiling a man (Mark 7:21-23). How will people come to Christ if the sanctuary of God scares them away because of all the pride and contentious quarrels? Mt. Cottrell numbers have declined in the recent years. What would Jesus think?
Jesus was not sent here to ‘condemn’ the world, but to ‘save’ us all. He forgives a multitude of sins. He loves us all very much. Do not let pride from our sinful nature take over the church. Become one and grow as a loving, kind sanctuary.
I pray that all may find peace and forgiveness in their hearts. If Jesus can forgive, then all of us surely can forgive one another. Nurture that peace. Find that comfort that Jesus gives. Not one of us are righteous, but through our good works, we can lead loving, Christian lives.
?
Who are we, mere humans, taking so much judgment and responsibility into our own hands? Born into this world, living with our sinful natures is why we must repent and give our lives fully to Christ. Is this how Jesus would want to run the churches - living in division and hate?
Yes, hate is a strong word. It should not be thrown around lightly. But how do we call the church loving if there is so much partiality and division?
Melbourne, VIC, Australia has an elder. Brisbane, QLD Australia has an elder. Will that never be enough for these power-driven “men of God”. They teach that order in the church must be followed; elders whom are anointed are of God’s Will, not their own. So why do they go against their own word?
Yes, we will never have peace on this Earth. Sin will always be present. That is why we repent and get baptised. That is why we humble ourselves to the Lord and follow His works and doctrine. Because our own hearts convict us to put our trust in the Lord, not man. Our hearts should be convicting us to forgive and love each other! Make peace with the churches. If Bro. Vlado and Janko are unable to bring the Altona church together with Mt. Cottrell, how are they ready for eldership?
It is pride that is evil and comes from within, defiling a man (Mark 7:21-23). How will people come to Christ if the sanctuary of God scares them away because of all the pride and contentious quarrels? Mt. Cottrell numbers have declined in the recent years. What would Jesus think?
Jesus was not sent here to ‘condemn’ the world, but to ‘save’ us all. He forgives a multitude of sins. He loves us all very much. Do not let pride from our sinful nature take over the church. Become one and grow as a loving, kind sanctuary.
I pray that all may find peace and forgiveness in their hearts. If Jesus can forgive, then all of us surely can forgive one another. Nurture that peace. Find that comfort that Jesus gives. Not one of us are righteous, but through our good works, we can lead loving, Christian lives.
Yes very true
Australia
Australia
26 Aug 2024 21:15
1555 views
1555 views
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Without confession of the sin, there is no forgiveness.
We cannot be more merciful than God.
James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
Proverbs 13:10 is the clear reason......
Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Without confession of the sin, there is no forgiveness.
We cannot be more merciful than God.
James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
Proverbs 13:10 is the clear reason......
Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.
What is Hypocrisy?
USA
USA
31 Aug 2024 9:09
1468 views
1468 views
Did not the American Elder's, (Mark Igic, Mate Agustinov,Jim Igic, and the Elder from Lancaster, Kurts,Kurt's, a letter to Hungarian and German elders, in which they informed them, that there are other two Elders in Australia, and that Paul Pentsa doesn't invite the others to the pulpit nor share communion with them?
The US Elders, Mark Igic and Mate Agustinov have been now twice to Melbourne, but have not met with Brisbane Elder Baumann, nor did they acknowledge him when he was visiting California church while he visited, but let him sit at the back. Did they offer Cucanic the Elder from Altona in Melbourne to preach in Mt. Cottrell?
So is it right to acuse Pentsa and they do the same?
With what judgment you judge other, you also will be judged, God is not mocked.
I agree that before peace will be established, repentance must take place first, Jesus said that unless we forgive from our heart, neither will our Father in Heaven forgive us our faults.
Yes from the heart.
The US Elders, Mark Igic and Mate Agustinov have been now twice to Melbourne, but have not met with Brisbane Elder Baumann, nor did they acknowledge him when he was visiting California church while he visited, but let him sit at the back. Did they offer Cucanic the Elder from Altona in Melbourne to preach in Mt. Cottrell?
So is it right to acuse Pentsa and they do the same?
With what judgment you judge other, you also will be judged, God is not mocked.
I agree that before peace will be established, repentance must take place first, Jesus said that unless we forgive from our heart, neither will our Father in Heaven forgive us our faults.
Yes from the heart.
Here we go again
USA
USA
31 Aug 2024 9:42
1465 views
1465 views
Hypocrites are along with liars, who will be among those who will be cast in the Lake of Fire, which is called the second death. What a fearful end for those who are found to be doing those sins!
Is it right for those who are Elders and teachers of God's word to neglect what the Bible worns?
The German and Hungarian Elders were more careful to have peace over truth, so they sided with those lying, and now the American Elder's are found to do the same as they acused Australian Elder.
What about new Marsden Elder Petrac, is he sharing the pulpit with A.Bauman?
I heard that at a funeral,Petrac would not even shake hands with A.Bauman.
What great love!!
So is there anything new under the Sun??
So when will things be different in Australia?
New Elders do not make much difference, if there is no changed heart!!
Is it right for those who are Elders and teachers of God's word to neglect what the Bible worns?
The German and Hungarian Elders were more careful to have peace over truth, so they sided with those lying, and now the American Elder's are found to do the same as they acused Australian Elder.
What about new Marsden Elder Petrac, is he sharing the pulpit with A.Bauman?
I heard that at a funeral,Petrac would not even shake hands with A.Bauman.
What great love!!
So is there anything new under the Sun??
So when will things be different in Australia?
New Elders do not make much difference, if there is no changed heart!!
Jesus is answer
Australia
Australia
31 Aug 2024 16:11
1452 views
1452 views
Jesus preached alot about the hypocrisy to the Jews.
Most of us thing we can get away with it, as the Jews believed..........
The issue with Elder Arnold accepting a member that has committed a sin unto death, is possbily the cause of some chosing not to continue corresponedence with him.
But...........
Not to continue to Elder Miodrag, is the real issue. When they are all on the same page, yet having partiality and respect of persons.
As someone commented earlier up on this page, about Elder Kozy, Elder Nenadov and Elder Pentsa............that the hatred has not been confessed and reconsiled yet...........it is still lingering and is not the past, its still current when the sin has not been confessed and repented of.
Petrak will show his fruits very soon when Igic returns to Australia next.
Most of us thing we can get away with it, as the Jews believed..........
The issue with Elder Arnold accepting a member that has committed a sin unto death, is possbily the cause of some chosing not to continue corresponedence with him.
But...........
Not to continue to Elder Miodrag, is the real issue. When they are all on the same page, yet having partiality and respect of persons.
As someone commented earlier up on this page, about Elder Kozy, Elder Nenadov and Elder Pentsa............that the hatred has not been confessed and reconsiled yet...........it is still lingering and is not the past, its still current when the sin has not been confessed and repented of.
Petrak will show his fruits very soon when Igic returns to Australia next.
Here we go again
USA
USA
1 Sep 2024 7:13
1432 views
1432 views
So what did A. Bauman do different then American elders did?
Elder Savin accepted people who were expelled for sins unto death, Yet he and A.Bauman ordained your Elder Cucanic!
Elder M. Igic accepted people who left the church and got married outside the church, against Elder's advise, now they are free members in his Vista church!
A. Bauman accepted a person who was baptized in Altona, married outside ACCN, husband later divorced her and married another person, so she married after being accepted as free member, and Savin shares communion with person who was accepted in A.Bauman's congregation. Savin comes to Melbourne and preaches in both Altona (Cucanic) church and Mt. Cottrell (Igjc and Agustinov) church.
Where are the differences? They are all sharing and doing the same things as they do here in the North American churches.
You accepted A.Bauman
When he and Savin ordained Cucanic, who has changed here?
Do not be respecter's of persons! If you accepted Savin who did accept into his church those who committed sins unto death, but now you critize A.Bauman for doing what a lot of churches practice in US.! Be careful, with your judgement.
There is a judge who will Judge according to truth and righteousness at the end of our journey.
Elder Savin accepted people who were expelled for sins unto death, Yet he and A.Bauman ordained your Elder Cucanic!
Elder M. Igic accepted people who left the church and got married outside the church, against Elder's advise, now they are free members in his Vista church!
A. Bauman accepted a person who was baptized in Altona, married outside ACCN, husband later divorced her and married another person, so she married after being accepted as free member, and Savin shares communion with person who was accepted in A.Bauman's congregation. Savin comes to Melbourne and preaches in both Altona (Cucanic) church and Mt. Cottrell (Igjc and Agustinov) church.
Where are the differences? They are all sharing and doing the same things as they do here in the North American churches.
You accepted A.Bauman
When he and Savin ordained Cucanic, who has changed here?
Do not be respecter's of persons! If you accepted Savin who did accept into his church those who committed sins unto death, but now you critize A.Bauman for doing what a lot of churches practice in US.! Be careful, with your judgement.
There is a judge who will Judge according to truth and righteousness at the end of our journey.
appreciate comment
Australia
Australia
1 Sep 2024 23:14
1397 views
1397 views
oh, ok.
wow.
didnt know that.
ok.
so, if that is the case, all those elders need to be removed from eldership, as that is not biblical reinstating a member that has committed a sin unto death.
wow.
thats so bad.....!!!!
apologies for my comments.
If thats the case, then all those elders need to be disciplined or removed from eldership, as that is NOT acceptable, nor biblical.
The Bibles teachings of holy living cannot be compromised.
Thanks for your comments.
wow.
didnt know that.
ok.
so, if that is the case, all those elders need to be removed from eldership, as that is not biblical reinstating a member that has committed a sin unto death.
wow.
thats so bad.....!!!!
apologies for my comments.
If thats the case, then all those elders need to be disciplined or removed from eldership, as that is NOT acceptable, nor biblical.
The Bibles teachings of holy living cannot be compromised.
Thanks for your comments.
do you know
Australia
Australia
1 Sep 2024 23:17
1396 views
1396 views
do you know who did Savin elder reinstate that was expelled for committing a sin unto death?
and
do you know who did M.Igic elder reinstate that left the church, got married outside the church and was brought back as a free member?
and
do you know who did M.Igic elder reinstate that left the church, got married outside the church and was brought back as a free member?
cautious
Australia
Australia
2 Sep 2024 3:50
1382 views
1382 views
In Melbourne 1970 elder Kozy reinstated a person who got married outside the church.
Why would it be a sin unto death if a member gets married outside the church,and brings husband/wife to church and get baptized? Why such a person has to suffer for the rest of his/her life?
2COR.2:6-8 & 9-10
This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a person,so that on the contrary,you ought rather to forgive and comfort him,lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with too much sorrow.
Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him.
Why would it be a sin unto death if a member gets married outside the church,and brings husband/wife to church and get baptized? Why such a person has to suffer for the rest of his/her life?
2COR.2:6-8 & 9-10
This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a person,so that on the contrary,you ought rather to forgive and comfort him,lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with too much sorrow.
Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him.
Yes I know
USA
USA
2 Sep 2024 14:16
1358 views
1358 views
To Caution.
In 1970 the Elder from Windsor Canada worked in Altona and reinstated Tutus lady, she married her husband in Yugoslavia, she never slept with her husband prior to getting married at civil courts, next day she went to church in Yugoslavia.
I might add, that the whole church (Altona) were free for her, as she was an example to all around her.
There was only one church at that time in Melbourne Australia.Steve Azlen, served in 1970, he was the father of Elder Mike Azlen, who later along with Elder Nenadov served Altona
1981-1986.
As for who Savin took in,the names are known to those in his church, as for Mark Igic,that couple is known to the Vista congregation. They can reveal.It is best not to judge Elders before you know facts
What Elders agree in each conferences what is permissible according to their understanding of the issues in the Bible.
In 1970 the Elder from Windsor Canada worked in Altona and reinstated Tutus lady, she married her husband in Yugoslavia, she never slept with her husband prior to getting married at civil courts, next day she went to church in Yugoslavia.
I might add, that the whole church (Altona) were free for her, as she was an example to all around her.
There was only one church at that time in Melbourne Australia.Steve Azlen, served in 1970, he was the father of Elder Mike Azlen, who later along with Elder Nenadov served Altona
1981-1986.
As for who Savin took in,the names are known to those in his church, as for Mark Igic,that couple is known to the Vista congregation. They can reveal.It is best not to judge Elders before you know facts
What Elders agree in each conferences what is permissible according to their understanding of the issues in the Bible.
read cautiously
Australia
Australia
2 Sep 2024 15:17
1353 views
1353 views
1 John 5:16
..............I do not say that he shall pray for it.
the principles of holy living cannot be changed or altered.
the sins unto death principles cannot be changed or altered.
regardless of any number of elders' meetings or committees' approvals.
the above mentioned bible verses are not in relation to a committed sin unto death.
the bible teaches on the sins unto death doctrine "not to pray for them"
....in a spiritual reasoning of reinstating by prayer for those particular sins committed by members of the church.
these members are left for the last day for God to decide.
the members names dont need to be exposed, but the disobedience to Gods word cannot be changed or justified by Kozy, Nenadov, Savin or Azlen.
..............I do not say that he shall pray for it.
the principles of holy living cannot be changed or altered.
the sins unto death principles cannot be changed or altered.
regardless of any number of elders' meetings or committees' approvals.
the above mentioned bible verses are not in relation to a committed sin unto death.
the bible teaches on the sins unto death doctrine "not to pray for them"
....in a spiritual reasoning of reinstating by prayer for those particular sins committed by members of the church.
these members are left for the last day for God to decide.
the members names dont need to be exposed, but the disobedience to Gods word cannot be changed or justified by Kozy, Nenadov, Savin or Azlen.
this cannot change
Australia
Australia
2 Sep 2024 15:18
1352 views
1352 views
Deuteronomy 7:3
Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons,
Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons,
and one more
Australia
Australia
2 Sep 2024 15:31
1347 views
1347 views
1 Corinthians 5:5 is very clear on submitting and delivering a level of punishment to that member that has committed a sin unto death....
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
.....in a spiritual reference being 'under discipline' all the way unto the day of the Lord, for the Lord on that day to decide the outcome.
There is a chance, but God will decide on that day.
The Church is not giving authority to reinstate members that have fallen away or have committed a sin unto death.
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
.....in a spiritual reference being 'under discipline' all the way unto the day of the Lord, for the Lord on that day to decide the outcome.
There is a chance, but God will decide on that day.
The Church is not giving authority to reinstate members that have fallen away or have committed a sin unto death.
To read cautiously
Australia
Australia
2 Sep 2024 20:23
1330 views
1330 views
You quoted right 1 John 5:16 but pay attention when you read.
It says! There is sin (not sins) leading to death, and that sin is blasphemy against HOLLY spirit. Matth. 12:31-32
Can anyone explain what is the blasphemy against HOLLY spirit?
It says! There is sin (not sins) leading to death, and that sin is blasphemy against HOLLY spirit. Matth. 12:31-32
Can anyone explain what is the blasphemy against HOLLY spirit?
your homework
Australia
Australia
2 Sep 2024 22:13
1322 views
1322 views
sins unto death originate from the old testament for sins that the children of israel, as gods people, were stoned to death for particular sins.
and
in the spiritual reference in the new testament, the sins that they were stoned to death for is for you to do your homework and searching if your church didnt explain it to you....
blasphemy was one of the sins they were stoned to death for.....search for the other ones.
understand the principles behind the teaching.
look at 1 john 5:17
......there is a sin not unto death.
(is there a sin that does not lead to death)
you need to understand the depth of the teaching behind sins and severity of sins in question here.
and
in the spiritual reference in the new testament, the sins that they were stoned to death for is for you to do your homework and searching if your church didnt explain it to you....
blasphemy was one of the sins they were stoned to death for.....search for the other ones.
understand the principles behind the teaching.
look at 1 john 5:17
......there is a sin not unto death.
(is there a sin that does not lead to death)
you need to understand the depth of the teaching behind sins and severity of sins in question here.
TakeThWholeWordOfGod
Australia
Australia
2 Sep 2024 23:42
1313 views
1313 views
1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
In 1 John 5:16&17 it NOT only says "singular" there is 'A' sin Unto death. But it also says, that there is 'A' sin (SINGULAR) that is NOT unto death. This means that in 1 John 5:16&17, "the subject or point, is" confirming that there are sins Not unto death, and (being different to -in contrast to-) sins Unto death.
We all know that there are MANY sins that are Not unto death, yet 1 John 5:16&17 says it in SINGULAR form, (there is "A" sin NOT unto death)".
Therefore the subject in 1 John 5:16&17 is NOT how "many" sins there are (nor which those sins are), BUT it is clearly asserting that there IS a distinction/difference/contrast between, "unto death" AND "not unto death".
If you would like to know clearly from the Holy Scripture which are the sins unto death, it is plainly written in Revelation 21:8
the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
In 1 John 5:16&17 it NOT only says "singular" there is 'A' sin Unto death. But it also says, that there is 'A' sin (SINGULAR) that is NOT unto death. This means that in 1 John 5:16&17, "the subject or point, is" confirming that there are sins Not unto death, and (being different to -in contrast to-) sins Unto death.
We all know that there are MANY sins that are Not unto death, yet 1 John 5:16&17 says it in SINGULAR form, (there is "A" sin NOT unto death)".
Therefore the subject in 1 John 5:16&17 is NOT how "many" sins there are (nor which those sins are), BUT it is clearly asserting that there IS a distinction/difference/contrast between, "unto death" AND "not unto death".
If you would like to know clearly from the Holy Scripture which are the sins unto death, it is plainly written in Revelation 21:8
the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
My homework
Australia
Australia
3 Sep 2024 1:03
1307 views
1307 views
GAL.5:19-21
Now the works of the flash are evident which are:
ADULTERY, FORNICATION, UNCLEANNES, LICENTIOUSNESS, IDOLATRY, SORCERY, HATRED, CONTENTIONS, JEALOUSIES, OUTBURSTS OF WRATH, SELFISH AMBITIONS, DISSENSIONS, HERESIES, ENVY, MURDERS, DRUNKENESS, REVELS, and alike; of which I tell you before-hand, that those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Here we can see they are all deadly sins,if a person will continue to do it till the death. Do you say that one can repent from these sins, but not adultery and fornication?
Now the works of the flash are evident which are:
ADULTERY, FORNICATION, UNCLEANNES, LICENTIOUSNESS, IDOLATRY, SORCERY, HATRED, CONTENTIONS, JEALOUSIES, OUTBURSTS OF WRATH, SELFISH AMBITIONS, DISSENSIONS, HERESIES, ENVY, MURDERS, DRUNKENESS, REVELS, and alike; of which I tell you before-hand, that those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Here we can see they are all deadly sins,if a person will continue to do it till the death. Do you say that one can repent from these sins, but not adultery and fornication?
Jesus wants peace
Australia
Australia
3 Sep 2024 2:37
1297 views
1297 views
“Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.”
??Matthew? ?24?:?40? ?NKJV??
No one knows when the coming of the Lord will be. However, we all should know that he wants peace. He wants to see us live in love.
All of this contentious talk, all of these judgemental quarrels; is this what Jesus wants to hear? Or would he rather hear that we all have accepted to live in harmony. So be it if members have been reinstated. If they have repented, let them continue their walk in faith. Don’t shame them any further than they already feel.
Yes, 1 Corinthians says to put that person away. To not sit with drunkards, idolaters, extortioners, etc. but note; they are in present tense. Are those members still sinning, or have they repented? Jesus forgives those who repent. He sees and hears the tears shed by a repented soul. Only He knows what’s in the hearts of everyone. Let him judge accordingly. A church should be loving; guiding each other to the Lord. Not condemning and punishing. If they don’t sin unto death and refrain and repent, is it still a sin unto death? Or is it a sin they have repented from.
It would be a different story if that person had not repented, or if they continued in their sin. If it is not their practice to continue to live in sin, how can you condemn them? Is the topic of this forum not to bring peace to the churches. Not bring past mistakes and sins back. If they have repented, how mean is it to bring up those peoples’ sins? Don’t hold it against them.
Christianity needs to be a representation of peace and love; Jesus. You are all representatives of Jesus. So show that love and peace that He has shown us.
Jesus would never humiliate someone, push them further away from Him. He would never seek to destroy others’ lives; so don’t let power consume you.
““Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;”
??Mark? ?3?:?28? ?NKJV?? - He forgives those that confess and repent!!
Look to the light and live a righteous life with good merits.
Australian churches should live in peace. Understand that you are not accepting sin. You are not deeming unrighteousness as righteous if you live in peace with the other ACCN churches. Instead, you are doing God’s work and showing that you have love. No one is a merciful as God. Not one.
Don’t slander churches. Don’t slander elders. I am sure it is in their hearts to do their best. If you believe they could do better or if you have a more promising idea. Tell them. I am sure they will listen.
Blessed are the peacemakers!
??Matthew? ?24?:?40? ?NKJV??
No one knows when the coming of the Lord will be. However, we all should know that he wants peace. He wants to see us live in love.
All of this contentious talk, all of these judgemental quarrels; is this what Jesus wants to hear? Or would he rather hear that we all have accepted to live in harmony. So be it if members have been reinstated. If they have repented, let them continue their walk in faith. Don’t shame them any further than they already feel.
Yes, 1 Corinthians says to put that person away. To not sit with drunkards, idolaters, extortioners, etc. but note; they are in present tense. Are those members still sinning, or have they repented? Jesus forgives those who repent. He sees and hears the tears shed by a repented soul. Only He knows what’s in the hearts of everyone. Let him judge accordingly. A church should be loving; guiding each other to the Lord. Not condemning and punishing. If they don’t sin unto death and refrain and repent, is it still a sin unto death? Or is it a sin they have repented from.
It would be a different story if that person had not repented, or if they continued in their sin. If it is not their practice to continue to live in sin, how can you condemn them? Is the topic of this forum not to bring peace to the churches. Not bring past mistakes and sins back. If they have repented, how mean is it to bring up those peoples’ sins? Don’t hold it against them.
Christianity needs to be a representation of peace and love; Jesus. You are all representatives of Jesus. So show that love and peace that He has shown us.
Jesus would never humiliate someone, push them further away from Him. He would never seek to destroy others’ lives; so don’t let power consume you.
““Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;”
??Mark? ?3?:?28? ?NKJV?? - He forgives those that confess and repent!!
Look to the light and live a righteous life with good merits.
Australian churches should live in peace. Understand that you are not accepting sin. You are not deeming unrighteousness as righteous if you live in peace with the other ACCN churches. Instead, you are doing God’s work and showing that you have love. No one is a merciful as God. Not one.
Don’t slander churches. Don’t slander elders. I am sure it is in their hearts to do their best. If you believe they could do better or if you have a more promising idea. Tell them. I am sure they will listen.
Blessed are the peacemakers!
No Wonder
USA
USA
3 Sep 2024 3:11
1294 views
1294 views
It is clear why there is all the divisions is so many American and now we see also in other countries including your Australian churches.
If the list above is to be taken as sins unto death, then your churches are left for judgment. Look at the words, "self ambitions,Contentions,Hatred,.... oh, Revalation states that he that liveth and make the a lie will be cast in the lake of fire. So consider what caused all this turmoil in churches, and you are doing it still! Divisions, outburst of wraths,envies,are not these being practiced by leaders and want to be leaders, who cause discord and lie so they can become leaders? Those who rebelled against Moses,the Lord punished them on the spot, the earth opened up and swallowed them alive.
How many rebellions were there in Altona,Brisbane, and other churches there?
And if an Elder would apply the word on such, they are called dictators, and spat upon, and called to repent for trying to keep the Church pure.
And the Church members and some elders support liers,and rebels,etc.,who according to the Bible we need to have "avoid".
And the list goes on.
If the list above is to be taken as sins unto death, then your churches are left for judgment. Look at the words, "self ambitions,Contentions,Hatred,.... oh, Revalation states that he that liveth and make the a lie will be cast in the lake of fire. So consider what caused all this turmoil in churches, and you are doing it still! Divisions, outburst of wraths,envies,are not these being practiced by leaders and want to be leaders, who cause discord and lie so they can become leaders? Those who rebelled against Moses,the Lord punished them on the spot, the earth opened up and swallowed them alive.
How many rebellions were there in Altona,Brisbane, and other churches there?
And if an Elder would apply the word on such, they are called dictators, and spat upon, and called to repent for trying to keep the Church pure.
And the Church members and some elders support liers,and rebels,etc.,who according to the Bible we need to have "avoid".
And the list goes on.
yes
Australia
Australia
3 Sep 2024 15:13
1259 views
1259 views
Yes, understand and most would agree with you and understand that your points are true and valid......
Agree 100% that ANY sin can be a sin unto death if a member willing sins, wants to sin, wants to remain in sin, and doesn't want to repent and confess it.
but
The point in 'sins unto death' theory, I believe, needs to be taken from its origin and studied.....
and
The meaning behind Gods way of dealing with a member that has committed particular sin/s....
They were not stoned to death for ALL sins or for ANY sins, but for particular sins. This is Gods ways for dealing with the severity of sins.
This is the point behind "there is a sin unto death" and "there is a sin not unto death"....
As particular sins that a member can be reinstated as a free member through a time of discipline.
and
On particular sins that a member CANNOT be reinstated as a free member.
This is the level of holy living that the church needs to maintain.
Most churches and members understand this, but there are elders that are changing this and want this change from the the bibles severity of its consequences.
The sin unto death theory is biblical, and 'separation from the church' is NOT biblical, what some elders and elder committees have changed....
....this is what churches are NOT allowed to accept elders' changes........
Agree 100% that ANY sin can be a sin unto death if a member willing sins, wants to sin, wants to remain in sin, and doesn't want to repent and confess it.
but
The point in 'sins unto death' theory, I believe, needs to be taken from its origin and studied.....
and
The meaning behind Gods way of dealing with a member that has committed particular sin/s....
They were not stoned to death for ALL sins or for ANY sins, but for particular sins. This is Gods ways for dealing with the severity of sins.
This is the point behind "there is a sin unto death" and "there is a sin not unto death"....
As particular sins that a member can be reinstated as a free member through a time of discipline.
and
On particular sins that a member CANNOT be reinstated as a free member.
This is the level of holy living that the church needs to maintain.
Most churches and members understand this, but there are elders that are changing this and want this change from the the bibles severity of its consequences.
The sin unto death theory is biblical, and 'separation from the church' is NOT biblical, what some elders and elder committees have changed....
....this is what churches are NOT allowed to accept elders' changes........
TakeTheWholeBible
Australia
Australia
4 Sep 2024 0:52
1229 views
1229 views
Re: Gal.5:19-21 this is not a list of sins unto death because it includes some sins that are not unto death, eg; wrath, drunkeness, envy, which if committed after baptism can be corrected (and repented of) and forgiven. There is not only one sin unto death. "Sin unto death" means that a person, after their baptism, if they should (God forbid, and I wish it upon nobody) commit "a sin unto death", cannot ever again be a member of the Church.
Such persons are left for God to judge in the last day.
This is not some new teaching. It is what we ("we" being, all who have been baptised) confirmed (immediately prior our baptism), and agreed upon. If we had not agreed (with the list of the sins unto death), we would not have been baptised.
Rev 21:8 lists the unforgivable sins (if committed after baptism). All sins committed prior to baptism can be forgiven. Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Clearly, these are the sins unto death.
The reason that there is no peace and harmony is because of, false prophets, false witnesses, false brethren, false teachers(preachers), and "false apostles"(elders).
Such persons are left for God to judge in the last day.
This is not some new teaching. It is what we ("we" being, all who have been baptised) confirmed (immediately prior our baptism), and agreed upon. If we had not agreed (with the list of the sins unto death), we would not have been baptised.
Rev 21:8 lists the unforgivable sins (if committed after baptism). All sins committed prior to baptism can be forgiven. Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Clearly, these are the sins unto death.
The reason that there is no peace and harmony is because of, false prophets, false witnesses, false brethren, false teachers(preachers), and "false apostles"(elders).
to: commenter
Australia
Australia
5 Sep 2024 13:06
1153 views
1153 views
re. Jesus wants peace
and
your comment:
- Don’t slander churches. Don’t slander elders. I am sure it is in their hearts to do their best. If you believe they could do better or if you have a more promising idea. Tell them. I am sure they will listen.
slander means;
- making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.
- make false and damaging statements about someone.
These statements are not false.
These are true statements.
(if true damages your reputation, that's their problem to solve.
(only truth will set them free - John 8:32)
(confessing their faults will make them free, not discipline those that stand against their sin)
and
It wasn't in their hearts to do their best when they did it willingly and wanted a division and split in the churches. This was intentional by Kozy, Nenadov and Pentsa.
Their actions prove it. Their gentle tongue proves something else:
Provers 25:15
Through patience a ruler can be persuaded, and a gentle tongue can break a bone.
Many have approached those elders of their sins, and NOTHING was taken into consideration, they didn't apologise for ANYTHING, and shun those that apposed them.....and the list goes on.
This proves their intention that they did it willingly...
and
your comment:
- Don’t slander churches. Don’t slander elders. I am sure it is in their hearts to do their best. If you believe they could do better or if you have a more promising idea. Tell them. I am sure they will listen.
slander means;
- making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.
- make false and damaging statements about someone.
These statements are not false.
These are true statements.
(if true damages your reputation, that's their problem to solve.
(only truth will set them free - John 8:32)
(confessing their faults will make them free, not discipline those that stand against their sin)
and
It wasn't in their hearts to do their best when they did it willingly and wanted a division and split in the churches. This was intentional by Kozy, Nenadov and Pentsa.
Their actions prove it. Their gentle tongue proves something else:
Provers 25:15
Through patience a ruler can be persuaded, and a gentle tongue can break a bone.
Many have approached those elders of their sins, and NOTHING was taken into consideration, they didn't apologise for ANYTHING, and shun those that apposed them.....and the list goes on.
This proves their intention that they did it willingly...
a note to highlight
Australia
Australia
5 Sep 2024 21:52
1134 views
1134 views
Why did steve nenadov stay home in the sunday afternoon service time when the serbian elders were present in altona in 1984?
Most probably because the serbian elders that were present at the same time while steve nenadov was present questioned the church and the american elders's sins were exposed.
and
Steve nenadov was put to shame. And, did he apoligise. NO....!!!!
Another indication that it was intentional, as he continued the sins what the USA elders committed prior.
and
When they had organised another meeting mid week for discussions, why did steve nenadov not attend the church meeting , but secrectly took the friends and went to keilor downs to conduct a baptism when he needed to make correction in altona?
You see, another indication that it was intentional, going to keilor downs behind the back of altona, without the agreement with altona, and went back to the USA without making correction.
Most probably because the serbian elders that were present at the same time while steve nenadov was present questioned the church and the american elders's sins were exposed.
and
Steve nenadov was put to shame. And, did he apoligise. NO....!!!!
Another indication that it was intentional, as he continued the sins what the USA elders committed prior.
and
When they had organised another meeting mid week for discussions, why did steve nenadov not attend the church meeting , but secrectly took the friends and went to keilor downs to conduct a baptism when he needed to make correction in altona?
You see, another indication that it was intentional, going to keilor downs behind the back of altona, without the agreement with altona, and went back to the USA without making correction.
Really
USA
USA
7 Sep 2024 8:18
1063 views
1063 views
To the above statement.
It was 1985 when Serbian Elders came, and did not support any baptisms until peace is achieved in Altona.(we would still be waiting)
In 1986 Elders Nenadov and Azlen went to Altona, where half the Church did not support them to do any work. That is the reason they had to take souls to the other church. They afterwards gave the half group over to Adelaide Elders.
But didn't Elders Nenadov and Freund afterwards do baptism in Altona? And served communion to that half group who was served by Serbian Elders.
did he apologize then?
Don't expect those Elders who have passed on to apologize.
It was 1985 when Serbian Elders came, and did not support any baptisms until peace is achieved in Altona.(we would still be waiting)
In 1986 Elders Nenadov and Azlen went to Altona, where half the Church did not support them to do any work. That is the reason they had to take souls to the other church. They afterwards gave the half group over to Adelaide Elders.
But didn't Elders Nenadov and Freund afterwards do baptism in Altona? And served communion to that half group who was served by Serbian Elders.
did he apologize then?
Don't expect those Elders who have passed on to apologize.
dont support sin
Australia
Australia
7 Sep 2024 18:06
1034 views
1034 views
Apologies for the slight differences in the dates/years.
Thought I was pretty close.
AND
Don't reduce the severity of the USA Elders that erred.
Disobedience to Gods Word has not justification.
Disobedience to Gods Word will NEVER be accepted as good enough.
Those Elders that erred need to apologise, repent and confess their faults.
Those that left this earth in sin, will face the judgement.
and
Nobody is requesting those that died to apologise.
If not, they will be accountable for those past sins, as they are still supporting the splinter group what Kozy/Nenadov/Pentsa made.
But, the current USA elders can make those moves and it will bring reconciliation if they want to humble themselves.
and
Those that are STILL continuing those sins of the past USA Elders ALSO need to apologise, repent and confess their own faults for maintaining the Kozy/Nenadov/Pentsa splinter group.
This will bring unity.
AND, no, they didnt need to take the souls to another church. If you believe this, you are supportive of that sin, when reconcilation was not made. Nenadov had to lie to the Church to remain as elder. Nenadov had to reject Gods voice through Altona to remain as elder. Nenadov had to discipline others to remain as elder.
The governments/prime ministers/presidents/kings of the earth do the same. Servants of Gods Church cannot do such deeds like what Kozy, Nenadov and Pentsa did.
Turning your back to God's Church is a sin. Working without Gods Church is a sin. Being ignorant of Gods Church is a sin. Being a Lord over Gods Church is a sin.
Thought I was pretty close.
AND
Don't reduce the severity of the USA Elders that erred.
Disobedience to Gods Word has not justification.
Disobedience to Gods Word will NEVER be accepted as good enough.
Those Elders that erred need to apologise, repent and confess their faults.
Those that left this earth in sin, will face the judgement.
and
Nobody is requesting those that died to apologise.
If not, they will be accountable for those past sins, as they are still supporting the splinter group what Kozy/Nenadov/Pentsa made.
But, the current USA elders can make those moves and it will bring reconciliation if they want to humble themselves.
and
Those that are STILL continuing those sins of the past USA Elders ALSO need to apologise, repent and confess their own faults for maintaining the Kozy/Nenadov/Pentsa splinter group.
This will bring unity.
AND, no, they didnt need to take the souls to another church. If you believe this, you are supportive of that sin, when reconcilation was not made. Nenadov had to lie to the Church to remain as elder. Nenadov had to reject Gods voice through Altona to remain as elder. Nenadov had to discipline others to remain as elder.
The governments/prime ministers/presidents/kings of the earth do the same. Servants of Gods Church cannot do such deeds like what Kozy, Nenadov and Pentsa did.
Turning your back to God's Church is a sin. Working without Gods Church is a sin. Being ignorant of Gods Church is a sin. Being a Lord over Gods Church is a sin.
Wrong move
Australia
Australia
7 Sep 2024 23:14
1020 views
1020 views
Why would they give that group over to Adelaide Elders?
They erred, so they need to apologise, not pass it on for others to solve their sins......
What baloney!!!!
They erred, so they need to apologise, not pass it on for others to solve their sins......
What baloney!!!!
What Sins ?
USA
USA
8 Sep 2024 9:31
993 views
993 views
Can you inform us as to what Sins are you referring that these Elders committed that they need to apologize for?
And where do you find scripture to back your statements about "working without church is sin"
In 1 Corinthians 5., the Church was admonished for not doing work of excommunication of a fornication, so Apostle Paul had to do it via his letter.
In Roman's 16, the writer instructs the Church in Rome how to deal with those that cause divisions, he writes in in verse 17
To "Mark them, and Avoid Them". In 2nd Thessalonians Paul instructs the Church as follows, "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him,that he may be ashamed,yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
So what happens when a brother sins against you? Do you use the instructions of our Lord Jesus?
Matthew 18 ,verses 15 to 18 instructs us how to proceed, did you apply this? And what can your Elder do to keep peace among members who would not accept this doctrine of Jesus, but continue to offend and cause havoc in churches?
Are these members above the Elders or other members?
Woe unto the world.....but woe unto that man by whom
the offenses cometh!
Watch that you do not be one of those that cause offence, and do not accept when you are admonished!
And where do you find scripture to back your statements about "working without church is sin"
In 1 Corinthians 5., the Church was admonished for not doing work of excommunication of a fornication, so Apostle Paul had to do it via his letter.
In Roman's 16, the writer instructs the Church in Rome how to deal with those that cause divisions, he writes in in verse 17
To "Mark them, and Avoid Them". In 2nd Thessalonians Paul instructs the Church as follows, "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him,that he may be ashamed,yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
So what happens when a brother sins against you? Do you use the instructions of our Lord Jesus?
Matthew 18 ,verses 15 to 18 instructs us how to proceed, did you apply this? And what can your Elder do to keep peace among members who would not accept this doctrine of Jesus, but continue to offend and cause havoc in churches?
Are these members above the Elders or other members?
Woe unto the world.....but woe unto that man by whom
the offenses cometh!
Watch that you do not be one of those that cause offence, and do not accept when you are admonished!
Interesting
Australia
Australia
8 Sep 2024 15:51
971 views
971 views
To don't support sin.
How do you look at the situation when in February 2023 elders from Hungary & Germany came to Melbourne to do the work, they didn't do with the church, they made their own decision. Do you consider that as a sin or you OK with it?
How do you look at the situation when in February 2023 elders from Hungary & Germany came to Melbourne to do the work, they didn't do with the church, they made their own decision. Do you consider that as a sin or you OK with it?
ReplyToWhatSins?
Australia
Australia
8 Sep 2024 16:01
968 views
968 views
Would you accept adminishment and disciple and punishment if you have not commited sin??
The Church is above the elders. The following verses show this ... ... ...
the church is subject unto Christ, Eph.5:24 (NOT unto the elders)
The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall NOT be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? Luke 22:25,26,27 Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it NOT be among you:
Mark 10:42,43
he (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church: Col.1:18 (not elders)
Neither as being lords over God's heritage 1 Peter 5:3
I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you: the LORD shall rule over you. Judges 8:23
Not for that we have dominion over your faith 2 Corithians 1:24 (the exercise of donimion is not permitted)
God hath set forth us the apostles last 1 Corinthians 4:9
The Church is above the elders. The following verses show this ... ... ...
the church is subject unto Christ, Eph.5:24 (NOT unto the elders)
The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall NOT be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? Luke 22:25,26,27 Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it NOT be among you:
Mark 10:42,43
he (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church: Col.1:18 (not elders)
Neither as being lords over God's heritage 1 Peter 5:3
I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you: the LORD shall rule over you. Judges 8:23
Not for that we have dominion over your faith 2 Corithians 1:24 (the exercise of donimion is not permitted)
God hath set forth us the apostles last 1 Corinthians 4:9
What Sins?
USA
USA
8 Sep 2024 17:30
957 views
957 views
You have not answered the questions as to what these Elders have sined!
Matthew 18 says to go and tell them their fault between you and them, etc. And if they would not hear you, take two more witnesses that every word may be asteblished, if they still will not listen,
Why don't you take the last step, and tell it to the Church, but which Church?
The one that supported the Elders to deal with unruly members according to Roman's 16 ?
Or the ones who separated and caused offenses, and call themselves The Church?
Did they ever repent and make right with those that they wronged?
You mention American Elders, Did not Bauman and American Elders Ordain Altona Elder Cucanic? Why did he accept them to ordain him if American Elders are so much in SINS?
Is his anointing valid from such Elders that you demand repentance and apologies?
In your eyes, are there any Elder that would be doing the right things in churches?
Name Them Please!
Matthew 18 says to go and tell them their fault between you and them, etc. And if they would not hear you, take two more witnesses that every word may be asteblished, if they still will not listen,
Why don't you take the last step, and tell it to the Church, but which Church?
The one that supported the Elders to deal with unruly members according to Roman's 16 ?
Or the ones who separated and caused offenses, and call themselves The Church?
Did they ever repent and make right with those that they wronged?
You mention American Elders, Did not Bauman and American Elders Ordain Altona Elder Cucanic? Why did he accept them to ordain him if American Elders are so much in SINS?
Is his anointing valid from such Elders that you demand repentance and apologies?
In your eyes, are there any Elder that would be doing the right things in churches?
Name Them Please!
Who is greatest?
USA
USA
8 Sep 2024 17:46
955 views
955 views
When the followers of Christ disputed who among them is the greatest, Jesus put a little child among them, and told them, unless they become converted, and become as little children,ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
So let's be as that little child and be humble and forgiving!!
So let's be as that little child and be humble and forgiving!!
Reply:ToWhatSins?
Australia
Australia
8 Sep 2024 23:06
940 views
940 views
You haven't answered my question:
Would you accept adminishment and disciple and punishment if you have not commited sin??
Sins that some elders committed?
- cause divisions (intentionally)
- respect of persons (intentionally)
- lies
- sowing discord among brethren (intentionally)
- telling other/s what sin/s a member confessed at confession
- readmitting into the Church, (against the Churches' wishes), some who have committed sin unto death(after their baptism).
- injustice/unrighteousness (they punish the guiltless and do not punish the guilty)
These sins being committed IN the Church, the Church knows(is aware of),
they happened in front of (in the presence of) the Church;
YOUR COMMENT: go and tell them their fault between you and them, etc. And if they would not hear you, take two more witnesses that every word may be asteblished, if they still will not listen, Why don't you take the last step, and tell it to the Church, IS IT VALID (necessary) Since In Happened IN Church?
WHAT SHOULD BE DONE WITH FALSE TEACHERS AND FALSE ELDERS/APOSTLES/PROPHETS ???
They don't fear God!
Would you accept adminishment and disciple and punishment if you have not commited sin??
Sins that some elders committed?
- cause divisions (intentionally)
- respect of persons (intentionally)
- lies
- sowing discord among brethren (intentionally)
- telling other/s what sin/s a member confessed at confession
- readmitting into the Church, (against the Churches' wishes), some who have committed sin unto death(after their baptism).
- injustice/unrighteousness (they punish the guiltless and do not punish the guilty)
These sins being committed IN the Church, the Church knows(is aware of),
they happened in front of (in the presence of) the Church;
YOUR COMMENT: go and tell them their fault between you and them, etc. And if they would not hear you, take two more witnesses that every word may be asteblished, if they still will not listen, Why don't you take the last step, and tell it to the Church, IS IT VALID (necessary) Since In Happened IN Church?
WHAT SHOULD BE DONE WITH FALSE TEACHERS AND FALSE ELDERS/APOSTLES/PROPHETS ???
They don't fear God!
Avoid Them
USA
USA
9 Sep 2024 12:18
905 views
905 views
To answere to the above question,"what should done with...."
Jesus made it clear, if after the last step, they would not hear the Church, they should be considered as a heathen and publican.
Why are you so insisting that those who erred be accepting your fellowship?
Leave them to their way.
If you have peace in your heart and are walking in Love let them be.
You will not gain them by becoming as they are, but only vex your soul.
Some things you have to leave to God, He will deal with them and us.
Live in peace with all men as much as pertains to you.
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith,praying in the Holy Ghost,Keep yourselves in the love of God,looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear,pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the fresh.
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and power, both now and ever. Amen."
Jude 20-25
Jesus made it clear, if after the last step, they would not hear the Church, they should be considered as a heathen and publican.
Why are you so insisting that those who erred be accepting your fellowship?
Leave them to their way.
If you have peace in your heart and are walking in Love let them be.
You will not gain them by becoming as they are, but only vex your soul.
Some things you have to leave to God, He will deal with them and us.
Live in peace with all men as much as pertains to you.
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith,praying in the Holy Ghost,Keep yourselves in the love of God,looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear,pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the fresh.
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and power, both now and ever. Amen."
Jude 20-25
Look clearly
Australia
Australia
9 Sep 2024 13:52
900 views
900 views
Lk ch 10 vrs 16 is clear
16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
To hear the church you need to ask the church.
To work behind the back of the church is despising the church.
Despise means:
- to look down on with disrespect
- to regard as negligible, worthless,
When elders decide without asking the church, work without the church, make a decision without the church, they are despising the church.
If they despise the church they are despising God
16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
To hear the church you need to ask the church.
To work behind the back of the church is despising the church.
Despise means:
- to look down on with disrespect
- to regard as negligible, worthless,
When elders decide without asking the church, work without the church, make a decision without the church, they are despising the church.
If they despise the church they are despising God
Answer
Australia
Australia
9 Sep 2024 13:53
899 views
899 views
.....this is what Kozy did, Nenadov continued, and Pentsa furthermore....
Attention
Australia
Australia
9 Sep 2024 14:52
891 views
891 views
You who have a problem with KOZY,NENADOV and PENTSA,that is passed: Looks like you have a problem with yourself.
Apostle Paul wrights PHIL.3:13-15: But one thing I do,forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead.
I press towards the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Therefore let us,as many as are mature,have this mind.
Apostle Paul wrights PHIL.3:13-15: But one thing I do,forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead.
I press towards the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Therefore let us,as many as are mature,have this mind.
Falsehood
Australia
Australia
9 Sep 2024 15:13
885 views
885 views
The pass is when its confessed, repented and discipline received for this sin.
If it's not repented nor confessed nor discipled received for the sin, it's still current.
Most, choose to understand that forgetting the past gives you forgiveness of those sins.
This is not Gods way of reconciliation....
If the truth hurts, that's a good thing.
But the correct move is required to reach reconciliation.
3 elders in australia and each working separately proves the correct reconciliation was made?
If it's not repented nor confessed nor discipled received for the sin, it's still current.
Most, choose to understand that forgetting the past gives you forgiveness of those sins.
This is not Gods way of reconciliation....
If the truth hurts, that's a good thing.
But the correct move is required to reach reconciliation.
3 elders in australia and each working separately proves the correct reconciliation was made?
ReplyTo:AvoidThem
Australia
Australia
9 Sep 2024 20:19
865 views
865 views
to conceal sins, does not make sins go away, it just increases the pile of sins
we should Not follow false teachers/phrophets/apostles
ought I for fear of rejection, forsake the Fellowship of Christ?
ought I refrain, for such as these, to tell the Gospel story or to forsake the Fellowship?
the fear of God doth strengthen me
to bear the Cross, faithfully.
We battle not with flesh and blood, ... but with spiritual wickedness!
Clearly these are the last days ... ...
we should Not follow false teachers/phrophets/apostles
ought I for fear of rejection, forsake the Fellowship of Christ?
ought I refrain, for such as these, to tell the Gospel story or to forsake the Fellowship?
the fear of God doth strengthen me
to bear the Cross, faithfully.
We battle not with flesh and blood, ... but with spiritual wickedness!
Clearly these are the last days ... ...
Why
USA
USA
9 Sep 2024 20:20
864 views
864 views
So what is stopping these 3 Elders from working together?
What have the things that took place so many decades ago , by other Elders,stopping them from working together now?
Have they all been ordained by American Elders?
Then why the differences?
Who can stop them from working together if they wanted to?
Maybe you should place more pressure on the present Elders instead of blaming Elders who have passed on.
Start a new page, and live in Love and unity, as we have here in North America.
Each church seem to have their order or custom, which may differ from the other congregations, but the Doctrine should be the same in all churches.
What have the things that took place so many decades ago , by other Elders,stopping them from working together now?
Have they all been ordained by American Elders?
Then why the differences?
Who can stop them from working together if they wanted to?
Maybe you should place more pressure on the present Elders instead of blaming Elders who have passed on.
Start a new page, and live in Love and unity, as we have here in North America.
Each church seem to have their order or custom, which may differ from the other congregations, but the Doctrine should be the same in all churches.
very true
Australia
Australia
9 Sep 2024 23:19
852 views
852 views
well said
and
we need people like you
so
please come and give them your recommendations, because so far they havent accepted what others had to tell them
but
maybe they will accept your way and suggestions
and
we need people like you
so
please come and give them your recommendations, because so far they havent accepted what others had to tell them
but
maybe they will accept your way and suggestions
this is answer
Australia
Australia
9 Sep 2024 23:28
849 views
849 views
the bible has the answers, and here they are:
1 john chapter 1 verse 9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins....
Revelation chapter 2 verse 5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;............
no one wants to take the blame for their sin, nor the elders sins from the same committee
but
prophet jonah said "throw me in"
(he didnt say "lets forgive and forget and God will judge the past")
1 john chapter 1 verse 9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins....
Revelation chapter 2 verse 5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;............
no one wants to take the blame for their sin, nor the elders sins from the same committee
but
prophet jonah said "throw me in"
(he didnt say "lets forgive and forget and God will judge the past")
Reply to Why
Australia
Australia
9 Sep 2024 23:43
845 views
845 views
but it's the elders who are trying to change the Doctrine
there are more than one Judas in our midst
if one speaks the truth, and supports justice, the elders attack him
yes, it's a pitty that we don't have 'Jonah' today, ... who said,
Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you:
for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
there are more than one Judas in our midst
if one speaks the truth, and supports justice, the elders attack him
yes, it's a pitty that we don't have 'Jonah' today, ... who said,
Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you:
for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
Hypocrisy
USA
USA
10 Sep 2024 0:48
835 views
835 views
I do agree that it is wrong to just keep completely beating the dead horse of things that were done wrong in the 1970s with people that are no longer alive. However, I really do think a major source of continued problems in both the US and Australia is this persevering mentality of "we have to be like Europe leaders" while BLINDLY closing their eyes to Europe's sins. This is a MAJOR problem. "I want to be with Europe and you Australians/Americans can just rot in sin." You all very much know MANY with this mindset. But for some reason the sins of Europe are NEVER discussed here. Do you brothers know that there is a church somewhere in Europe where it is openly preached that there ARE NO sins unto death and nothing is being done with these ministers? Instead elders are coming and performing baptisms there. WHY is THIS not discussed? Nooo we want to be with Europe....well there's your holy Europe. Many other such examples of horrid leadership exist from various countries on that continent but no, THEY ARE THE EXAMPLE we want to follow.....
please explain
Australia
Australia
10 Sep 2024 1:21
830 views
830 views
wow, never heard of such.
and
i am found wrong many times, and dont want to condemn you on this.
but
i would like to know more about this church that preaches such.
could you at least share the city/town/village this church is located?
is it a nazarene church or one that was a nazarene and moved away perhaps?
and
i am found wrong many times, and dont want to condemn you on this.
but
i would like to know more about this church that preaches such.
could you at least share the city/town/village this church is located?
is it a nazarene church or one that was a nazarene and moved away perhaps?
not good
Australia
Australia
10 Sep 2024 1:23
829 views
829 views
whoever has that mind set, is not being biblical
and
is very biased, showing respect of persons and proving to have partiality
the faith of jesus christ does not originate from a country or continent
and
is very biased, showing respect of persons and proving to have partiality
the faith of jesus christ does not originate from a country or continent
Oh
USA
USA
10 Sep 2024 3:51
820 views
820 views
"Salvation is of the Jews," Jesus told the Samaritan women at the well.
And also to
Australia
Australia
10 Sep 2024 10:58
794 views
794 views
The acts 13:46
And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Oh
USA
USA
10 Sep 2024 11:46
786 views
786 views
Salvation is of the Jews.
Yes the Gospel was sent to all nations, no matter what color of skin, or gender we are, God's grace is available if we believe and accept Jesus as our personal and keep his teaching, as he said in Matthew, 28.
Yes the Gospel was sent to all nations, no matter what color of skin, or gender we are, God's grace is available if we believe and accept Jesus as our personal and keep his teaching, as he said in Matthew, 28.
Oh
USA
USA
10 Sep 2024 12:29
783 views
783 views
Should read"Personal Saviour"
There is Still Hope
USA
USA
10 Sep 2024 12:35
781 views
781 views
Yes it is available even to us , be we Serbians, Slovaks,Hungarians,Germans, and even Americans.
If we abide in his Word. And are faithful to the very End. Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
If we abide in his Word. And are faithful to the very End. Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
To very True
USA
USA
10 Sep 2024 12:45
780 views
780 views
You do not me to come and teach them, as Abraham said to the rich man in he'll, they have Moses and the Prophets, let them hear them....even if someone from the grave would come and warn, they would not accept sound advice, they are too strong in their opinions and ways.
If Australian Churches after having so many Elders work for the past 60 years, have not learned how to live in Love and unity, then a mere little me would not make a different. Be Strong and keep the faith as you have received.
If Australian Churches after having so many Elders work for the past 60 years, have not learned how to live in Love and unity, then a mere little me would not make a different. Be Strong and keep the faith as you have received.
hmmm
Australia
Australia
10 Sep 2024 13:50
775 views
775 views
fair enough
but
dont water down facts
and
dont degrade the severity of anyones sins
contend for the faith, its rightousness and gods kingdom'
not
peace love peace love peace love unity peace love unity
(with the sin of any person/elder/brother/sister....etc)
if we dont condemn sin, we will justify it
and
it we dont hate sin we will love it
and
if we love it we will do it or love when others are doing it
(by being quiet)
but
dont water down facts
and
dont degrade the severity of anyones sins
contend for the faith, its rightousness and gods kingdom'
not
peace love peace love peace love unity peace love unity
(with the sin of any person/elder/brother/sister....etc)
if we dont condemn sin, we will justify it
and
it we dont hate sin we will love it
and
if we love it we will do it or love when others are doing it
(by being quiet)
To Hmmm above
USA
USA
11 Sep 2024 11:18
717 views
717 views
Do you support sins when it concerns your close friends or family?
Reading some of the previous posts before it appears their was a lot of sins committed between the churches in Altona and Cottrell.
Going to courts against each other! Have any person ever ask for forgiveness ?
Did any apologize and confess they did wrong?
Did minister from Altona from the pulpit preach that the members who go to the Church at the farm (meaning Cottrell Church are going to Hell?
If that is true, is he still allowed to preach?
So if you want to deal with Sins, start at the current leadership!Do not worry about the errors of the Elders who have passed on, we ca not change that.
But we can start by cleaning the churches from the first Benches.
Those who preach, from them will be expected more, to whom much is given, much will be required.
Be it Elders, Assistants, Ministers, brothers who bring prayer, they need to be examples to the flock, so they can say , be ye followers of me, as I am of Christ.
Can they truly say and believe they are followers of Christ? As Apostle Paul said?
Not Just in Name, but in truth and in deeds?
Then you can start cleaning in your Church first.
Reading some of the previous posts before it appears their was a lot of sins committed between the churches in Altona and Cottrell.
Going to courts against each other! Have any person ever ask for forgiveness ?
Did any apologize and confess they did wrong?
Did minister from Altona from the pulpit preach that the members who go to the Church at the farm (meaning Cottrell Church are going to Hell?
If that is true, is he still allowed to preach?
So if you want to deal with Sins, start at the current leadership!Do not worry about the errors of the Elders who have passed on, we ca not change that.
But we can start by cleaning the churches from the first Benches.
Those who preach, from them will be expected more, to whom much is given, much will be required.
Be it Elders, Assistants, Ministers, brothers who bring prayer, they need to be examples to the flock, so they can say , be ye followers of me, as I am of Christ.
Can they truly say and believe they are followers of Christ? As Apostle Paul said?
Not Just in Name, but in truth and in deeds?
Then you can start cleaning in your Church first.
absolutely
Australia
Australia
11 Sep 2024 15:33
703 views
703 views
yes, very true.
everyone is going to be accountable for their own sins (if they dont repent)
and
everyone will be accountable for the sins of others (if they are a partaker with others - by agreeing, loving or being quiet about it when its exposed)
everyone is going to be accountable for their own sins (if they dont repent)
and
everyone will be accountable for the sins of others (if they are a partaker with others - by agreeing, loving or being quiet about it when its exposed)
help me understand
Australia
Australia
11 Sep 2024 16:36
694 views
694 views
re. comment:
- So if you want to deal with Sins, start at the current leadership!Do not worry about the errors of the Elders who have passed on, we can not change that.
well said.
but
what do you do if the current elders are still continuing the sins of the past elders?
does this still make it holy? or is it still a sin?
what then dear one?
- So if you want to deal with Sins, start at the current leadership!Do not worry about the errors of the Elders who have passed on, we can not change that.
well said.
but
what do you do if the current elders are still continuing the sins of the past elders?
does this still make it holy? or is it still a sin?
what then dear one?
Be patient
Australia
Australia
11 Sep 2024 17:56
688 views
688 views
Matth. 13:27-30
So the servants of the owner came and said to him,"Sir,did you not sow good seed on your field?How than does it have tares?" He said.An enemy has done this
Servants said; "Do you want us to go and gather them up?" Bu he said NO,lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest.
So the servants of the owner came and said to him,"Sir,did you not sow good seed on your field?How than does it have tares?" He said.An enemy has done this
Servants said; "Do you want us to go and gather them up?" Bu he said NO,lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest.
We have Jonas
USA
USA
12 Sep 2024 6:40
655 views
655 views
First let us look at Jonah,he ran away from doing the Lord's work of preaching.
He tried to hid his disobedience.
After God saved him from the belly of the fish, he reluctantly preached.
After preaching, he was unhappy that God did not bring destruction on the people that he preached to.
Why so many on this forum want their fellow brothers to be disciplined?
If those who did ere find repentance without been disciplined, why impose it. When my children did wrong, some of them by just talking to them shed tears of remorse, others needed the rod
to make them realize the gravity of their error.
Are we like that servant who owed his master ten thousand talents, and he begged his master to forgive him and not to sell his family into slavery....etc.
But that servant saw a fellow servant who owed him much less, who just asked him to be patient with him, and he will pay him back, he did not ask to have his debt erased, but just needed more time. The one who was forgiven was not willing to wait, but had him cast into prison.
Are we so hasty with others to have them beaten with the rod, instead of doing what Jesus said, "When you go to pray, forgive!"
If we do not forgive others their trespasses neither will our Father forgive us our trespasses.
He tried to hid his disobedience.
After God saved him from the belly of the fish, he reluctantly preached.
After preaching, he was unhappy that God did not bring destruction on the people that he preached to.
Why so many on this forum want their fellow brothers to be disciplined?
If those who did ere find repentance without been disciplined, why impose it. When my children did wrong, some of them by just talking to them shed tears of remorse, others needed the rod
to make them realize the gravity of their error.
Are we like that servant who owed his master ten thousand talents, and he begged his master to forgive him and not to sell his family into slavery....etc.
But that servant saw a fellow servant who owed him much less, who just asked him to be patient with him, and he will pay him back, he did not ask to have his debt erased, but just needed more time. The one who was forgiven was not willing to wait, but had him cast into prison.
Are we so hasty with others to have them beaten with the rod, instead of doing what Jesus said, "When you go to pray, forgive!"
If we do not forgive others their trespasses neither will our Father forgive us our trespasses.
Understand
Australia
Australia
12 Sep 2024 9:51
643 views
643 views
Don't compare a persons sinbefore baptism or the old testament with committing sins after baptism and the new testament.
Because
There is difference.
Because
There is difference.
take to consider
Australia
Australia
12 Sep 2024 12:17
626 views
626 views
romans chapter 3 verse
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
1 peter chapter 1 verse
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
1 peter chapter 1 verse
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
compare these
Australia
Australia
12 Sep 2024 13:46
617 views
617 views
matthew 3:6
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
and
galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
are not the same reverence of confession of sins.
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
and
galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
are not the same reverence of confession of sins.
To The Above
USA
USA
13 Sep 2024 6:24
571 views
571 views
What have these quotes got to do with the topic on hand?
Elders Sins, and new Elders continue do do the same!
What to do is the questions put forward here!
Elders Sins, and new Elders continue do do the same!
What to do is the questions put forward here!
Explain
Australia
Australia
13 Sep 2024 11:10
550 views
550 views
What's your query?
Reply to - Oh
Australia
Australia
14 Sep 2024 16:02
482 views
482 views
I noticed that "Oh" mentioned "Personal Saviour", on 10th Sept.
has it ever occurred to you (or anyone)
that the word (/phrase) "Personal Savior" is 'Not' found in the Bible?
Nor is, "God's Plan" Nor is the word, "Rapture"?
has it ever occurred to you (or anyone)
that the word (/phrase) "Personal Savior" is 'Not' found in the Bible?
Nor is, "God's Plan" Nor is the word, "Rapture"?
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